The New Raith Rovers Thread

[CallumPar]

Stay full time, get a manager who knows his onions and Raith will be back next season.
Qos, livvy and maybe Alloa have shown previously it's a piece of pish.
The diddies Dunfermline and Morton aren't the best examples but I'm sure you'll be fine, just don't pretend you are world beaters ala Qos and Dunfermline when you do come back, it is the diddy league....good luck

I'd agree be with us being a terrible example - we're probably an example of what can happen if you don't appoint the right manager. However, Morton bounced straight back, when everyone in league one was spending the money that they got from Rangers being in the league the year before. For me, that's much more impressive than what Livingston have done this year.

Remember whoever goes down, has about double the budget of those already in the league, because of the way prize money is distributed. Raith and Ayr will be near the top of the league next season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see one win the league and the other come up through the play-offs.

[Raith Against The Machine]

Reading the same article I would agree seems like he has itchy feet and dropping a division is hardly likely to make him stay if he knows a bigger team in a higher division is looking he may do the same as bates and force his leave, although his performance at Dumbarton suggests he may be more professional than that.

I don't think there's anything in the direct quotes to suggest he wants away right now, although the author of the article does suggest that.

That said, if Vaughan does decide he wants to leave, he just needs to ring into pre-season with the flu.

[Poet of the Macabre]

Interviewer did a far better job than I was expecting. Did well to ask tough questions without being rude.

Alan Young should be applauded for doing the interview but his arrogance was startling. Seemed to see Raith Rovers playing in the third tier as some strange abnormality, rather than a league they were playing in less than a decade ago. Comparing it to "a death in the family" was also very crass and laughable.

Feel bad for any staff losing their jobs today. Could be a grim day in Kirkcaldy.

[Alert Mongoose]

I don't think there's anything in the direct quotes to suggest he wants away right now, although the author of the article does suggest that.

That said, if Vaughan does decide he wants to leave, he just needs to ring into pre-season with the flu.

Or tell them that his bedroom as a kid was full of Accrington Stanley memorabilia.

[baillieinleeds]

Interviewer did a far better job than I was expecting. Did well to ask tough questions without being rude.
Alan Young should be applauded for doing the interview but his arrogance was startling. Seemed to see Raith Rovers playing in the third tier as some strange abnormality, rather than a league they were playing in less than a decade ago. Comparing it to "a death in the family" was also very crass and laughable.
Feel bad for any staff losing their jobs today. Could be a grim day in Kirkcaldy.

I agree, the arrogance is abhorrent. We have absolutely no right to be in the championship season after season. We had no ambition to push ourselves forward to the Premiership. We've stagnated as a club. The win a few, lose a few was boring and irritating for the fans. This season we have been a laughing stock and deserve everything that comes our way. If we think League 1 will be easy then think again. I think we'll be there for a good while. From top to bottom it's been a farce. But let's blame the fans which seems to be the mantra spewed forth from this lot.

[SuperHans]

I'll look forward to the pelters I get for this post, but what had Vaughan actually done for the Rovers since he's come through?

The whole Vaughan love in, has really got on my nerves this season. Granted he'd come back from an injury the season before but on the games I saw him play this season, he didn't cut it.

He's scored 9 career goals for the Rovers and his last one came in 2015! The Chairman didn't go into too much details regarding the Dumbarton deal, and Locke was an awful manager but I get the impression Vaughan saw himself as more valuable and important than the management team at the time. Creating problems due to not getting selected and although he made his mistakes, if Locke ruled him out of his plans for this season then it would suggest Vaughan wasn't doing what he needed to get himself back in the team. Is this the type of player we want in our dressing room?

He scored 4 goals for Dumbarton, yes 1 or 2 of them probably had some factors to us getting relegated but 4 goals in the Championship in 15 games isn't exactly the returns of a striker that's setting the heather on fire.

Arguably Court has had a bigger contribution to this season than Vaughan did and he only played in 4 games! Setting up a goal at Easter Road and scoring v Ayr!

If losing Vaughan meant keeping players like either of the Barr's or Kevin Cuthbert then I'd pack his bags for him.

[Dunning1874]

Echoing other comments, you can give Young credit for doing the interview when he could have just put a statement on the website or hidden away completely, but that's where the praise ends. All of those answers were unsatisfactory at best and ridiculous at worst. 

His answer on the Bates situation manages to make it even worse: if Vaughan, Callachan or Matthews want to leave this summer (provided the club don't give them a choice between leaving and going part-time today, obviously) they know how to go about it.  The goalkeeper situation comments are hilarious and add to the long list of reasons Drysdale's position is untenable. You could possibly overlook the complete absence of an apology or admission that the fans were right all along about Locke, but trying to claim the appointment wasn't a mistake takes a serious brass neck.

I suppose you can have some hope as the same board appointed McKinnon a year ago, but if I was a Raith fan I would be absolutely shitting myself about next season.

[renton]

28 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Echoing other comments, you can give Young credit for doing the interview when he could have just put a statement on the website or hidden away completely, but that's where the praise ends. All of those answers were unsatisfactory at best and ridiculous at worst. 

His answer on the Bates situation manages to make it even worse: if Vaughan, Callachan or Matthews want to leave this summer (provided the club don't give them a choice between leaving and going part-time today, obviously) they know how to go about it.  The goalkeeper situation comments are hilarious and add to the long list of reasons Drysdale's position is untenable. You could possibly overlook the complete absence of an apology or admission that the fans were right all along about Locke, but trying to claim the appointment wasn't a mistake takes a serious brass neck.

I suppose you can have some hope as the same board appointed McKinnon a year ago, but if I was a Raith fan I would be absolutely shitting myself about next season.

In fairness, that's me every fucking pre season.

Bates isn't even the first, same thing happened with Toshney - United approached him, turned his head and we had little choice but to let him go for some fucking nominal fee. That we lost Toshney and Bates over the course of a few months was perhaps the biggest disaster of them all, leaving us precious little cover and relying on M'Voto who was a class below either of those two in terms of actually kicking a ball and finding a team mate, and who's aerial prowess deserted him at critical moments. 

[renton]

36 minutes ago, SuperHans said:

I'll look forward to the pelters I get for this post, but what had Vaughan actually done for the Rovers since he's come through?

The whole Vaughan love in, has really got on my nerves this season. Granted he'd come back from an injury the season before but on the games I saw him play this season, he didn't cut it.

He's scored 9 career goals for the Rovers and his last one came in 2015! The Chairman didn't go into too much details regarding the Dumbarton deal, and Locke was an awful manager but I get the impression Vaughan saw himself as more valuable and important than the management team at the time. Creating problems due to not getting selected and although he made his mistakes, if Locke ruled him out of his plans for this season then it would suggest Vaughan wasn't doing what he needed to get himself back in the team. Is this the type of player we want in our dressing room?

He scored 4 goals for Dumbarton, yes 1 or 2 of them probably had some factors to us getting relegated but 4 goals in the Championship in 15 games isn't exactly the returns of a striker that's setting the heather on fire.

Arguably Court has had a bigger contribution to this season than Vaughan did and he only played in 4 games! Setting up a goal at Easter Road and scoring v Ayr!

If losing Vaughan meant keeping players like either of the Barr's or Kevin Cuthbert then I'd pack his bags for him.

Vaughan was never just about the goals he scored, but about his overall creativity. Compare the number of chances the team created with him in it, versus any other part of the season.

[invocr]

7 hours ago, Munter said:

I disagree with some posters that we don't need the role of CEO as we are likely to be a hybrid of part and full time next season. Now, more than ever, we need strong leadership and someone who can grab all aspects of the day to day running of the club/business and organise them around a long term vision of sustainability and success. We need someone who is more akin to a start up business CEO than a middle manager. A jack of all trades, someone who can inspire and organise and bring back room, office and playing staff together. It's not going to be easy to find that person, but the right one is not only worth paying a salary to, but a good salary. They along with the first team manager need to be the most important leaders at the club and committed long term to what will be a challenging project. Drysdale clearly doesn't seem to be that person, although his commitment and passion for the club cannot be faulted.

I agree with this ^^

Alan Young made the comment that ideally the new manager would be here for a number of years (4 or 5?) before moving on. Is this realistic? Let's assume it's Darren Young: best case scenario is that we come straight back up and then, the season after, stay up (or reach mid-table, or even the play-offs). He's likely going to be off at the first chance of a job at a bigger club. (E.g. when McKinnon gets punted from Dundee United if they get stuck in the Championship for a few more seasons or St Johnstone when Tommy Wright moves on in a few years).

We need somebody working for the club with a strategic vision who can carry it through no matter who the football manager is.

[Poet of the Macabre]

I am enjoying the rapid revisionist history from Rovers fans where M'Voto has gone from their only good player to absolutely shite in the space of a few weeks.

Meant to say about Young's Locke comments; even if you truly believed he was a good appointment, why would you go on camera and say that? Just makes you look so ridiculous. Plus, if he was that good and such a nice guy, why bother sacking him?

[CALDERON]

Also I agree Vaughan was poor this season and needed game time elsewhere. That isn't the issue.

The issue is sending him to a fucking direct rival.

[R.R.FC]

I had a look previously and you can basically tie Vaughan dropping out the team with our drop in form and lack of goals.

I think a large part of that is coincidence and he is in danger of being overhyped slightly. However, our record with and without him starting this season makes for worrying reading. There's no doubt in my mind he would be a massive player for us in League 1.

[Rover the Moon]

I'll look forward to the pelters I get for this post, but what had Vaughan actually done for the Rovers since he's come through?

The whole Vaughan love in, has really got on my nerves this season. Granted he'd come back from an injury the season before but on the games I saw him play this season, he didn't cut it.

He's scored 9 career goals for the Rovers and his last one came in 2015! The Chairman didn't go into too much details regarding the Dumbarton deal, and Locke was an awful manager but I get the impression Vaughan saw himself as more valuable and important than the management team at the time. Creating problems due to not getting selected and although he made his mistakes, if Locke ruled him out of his plans for this season then it would suggest Vaughan wasn't doing what he needed to get himself back in the team. Is this the type of player we want in our dressing room?

He scored 4 goals for Dumbarton, yes 1 or 2 of them probably had some factors to us getting relegated but 4 goals in the Championship in 15 games isn't exactly the returns of a striker that's setting the heather on fire.

Arguably Court has had a bigger contribution to this season than Vaughan did and he only played in 4 games! Setting up a goal at Easter Road and scoring v Ayr!

If losing Vaughan meant keeping players like either of the Barr's or Kevin Cuthbert then I'd pack his bags for him.

I agree he wasn't playing well during the games he got with us this year. I also remember him getting pelters for trying to score with every free-kick he took, no matter where it was.

But when we were in the midst of a winless run where we couldn't buy a goal, Locke still didn't give him a chance. Madness.

As for "1 or 2" goals for Dumbarton contributing to our relegation, he scored in a 1-0 win over Morton, 1-1 draw at St Mirren, and both 2-2s at Falkirk and Dundee Utd. So every goal for them was crucial which makes the deal even more barmy.

And his last goal for Rovers wasn't two years ago, he got a couple in the cup in July.

[renton]

4 minutes ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

I am enjoying the rapid revisionist history from Rovers fans where M'Voto has gone from their only good player to absolutely shite in the space of a few weeks.

Meant to say about Young's Locke comments; even if you truly believed he was a good appointment, why would you go on camera and say that? Just makes you look so ridiculous. Plus, if he was that good and such a nice guy, why bother sacking him?

In fairness, I don't think I've ever said he was 'our only good player' on here. My own recollection of my opinion of him is as I wrote there, an old fashioned agricultural centre back with no skill with the ball at his feet.

[SuperHans]

I agree with this ^^
Alan Young made the comment that ideally the new manager would be here for a number of years (4 or 5?) before moving on. Is this realistic? Let's assume it's Darren Young: best case scenario is that we come straight back up and then, the season after, stay up (or reach mid-table, or even the play-offs). He's likely going to be off at the first chance of a job at a bigger club. (E.g. when McKinnon gets punted from Dundee United if they get stuck in the Championship for a few more seasons or St Johnstone when Tommy Wright moves on in a few years).
We need somebody working for the club with a strategic vision who can carry it through no matter who the football manager is.

Exactly my thoughts when he said that. My other worry was surely they won't go out and sign a manger on a 4 year deal like ICT did this season.

For me the Director of Football role has never been more appropriate. Only problem is that we're not in the financial situation to bring one in unless we cut our cloth even more.

[Diamond Oracle]

I agree with this ^^
Alan Young made the comment that ideally the new manager would be here for a number of years (4 or 5?) before moving on. Is this realistic? Let's assume it's Darren Young: best case scenario is that we come straight back up and then, the season after, stay up (or reach mid-table, or even the play-offs). He's likely going to be off at the first chance of a job at a bigger club. (E.g. when McKinnon gets punted from Dundee United if they get stuck in the Championship for a few more seasons or St Johnstone when Tommy Wright moves on in a few years).
We need somebody working for the club with a strategic vision who can carry it through no matter who the football manager is.

I would argue that you wouldn't want your next manager to be at the club for 5 years.

All that's would demonstrate is that he hasn't done a bad enough job to get sacked, but not a good enough job to earn a job higher up the leagues.

[R.R.FC]

15 minutes ago, R.R.FC said:

I had a look previously and you can basically tie Vaughan dropping out the team with our drop in form and lack of goals.

I think a large part of that is coincidence and he is in danger of being overhyped slightly. However, our record with and without him starting this season makes for worrying reading. There's no doubt in my mind he would be a massive player for us in League 1.

Have looked into this further. Our record in games Vaughan has started this season is:

Played 9 - Won: 5 Lost: 2 Drawn: 2
Goals for: 14 (Average 1.55 per game)

Games Vaughan didn't start

Played 36 - Won: 7 Lost: 18 Drawn: 11

Goals for: 35 (Average 0.97 per game)

Now a lot of this is coincidence as we were already showing signs of a dip with Vaughan in the team and he didn't help himself with his performances off the bench which were largely awful. However, I definitely think he would have added some much needed creativity to our team. Danny Handling was the only player willing to put his foot on the ball and show composure to pick a pass in the latter stages of the season.

Regardless of any of this, it wouldn't be discussed nearly as much if the board hadn't loaned him to a team in the same fucking league!

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I'll look forward to the pelters I get for this post, but what had Vaughan actually done for the Rovers since he's come through?

The whole Vaughan love in, has really got on my nerves this season. Granted he'd come back from an injury the season before but on the games I saw him play this season, he didn't cut it.

He's scored 9 career goals for the Rovers and his last one came in 2015! The Chairman didn't go into too much details regarding the Dumbarton deal, and Locke was an awful manager but I get the impression Vaughan saw himself as more valuable and important than the management team at the time. Creating problems due to not getting selected and although he made his mistakes, if Locke ruled him out of his plans for this season then it would suggest Vaughan wasn't doing what he needed to get himself back in the team. Is this the type of player we want in our dressing room?

He scored 4 goals for Dumbarton, yes 1 or 2 of them probably had some factors to us getting relegated but 4 goals in the Championship in 15 games isn't exactly the returns of a striker that's setting the heather on fire.

Arguably Court has had a bigger contribution to this season than Vaughan did and he only played in 4 games! Setting up a goal at Easter Road and scoring v Ayr!

If losing Vaughan meant keeping players like either of the Barr's or Kevin Cuthbert then I'd pack his bags for him.

Based on his performances with us he was twice the player of any of the jobbers turning out for you this season. Quick, skillfull, determined and has an eye for goal.

I genuinely wouldn't swap a single player in that entire, massive Rovers squad for Vaughan.

He also won us 5 points with his goals.

[Jan Vojáček]

1 hour ago, SuperHans said:

I'll look forward to the pelters I get for this post, but what had Vaughan actually done for the Rovers since he's come through?

The whole Vaughan love in, has really got on my nerves this season. Granted he'd come back from an injury the season before but on the games I saw him play this season, he didn't cut it.

He's scored 9 career goals for the Rovers and his last one came in 2015! The Chairman didn't go into too much details regarding the Dumbarton deal, and Locke was an awful manager but I get the impression Vaughan saw himself as more valuable and important than the management team at the time. Creating problems due to not getting selected and although he made his mistakes, if Locke ruled him out of his plans for this season then it would suggest Vaughan wasn't doing what he needed to get himself back in the team. Is this the type of player we want in our dressing room?

He scored 4 goals for Dumbarton, yes 1 or 2 of them probably had some factors to us getting relegated but 4 goals in the Championship in 15 games isn't exactly the returns of a striker that's setting the heather on fire.

Arguably Court has had a bigger contribution to this season than Vaughan did and he only played in 4 games! Setting up a goal at Easter Road and scoring v Ayr!

If losing Vaughan meant keeping players like either of the Barr's or Kevin Cuthbert then I'd pack his bags for him.

He got two assists in his time with us as well, so to prove you can make statistics show whatever you want, he scored 4 and set up 2 in 11 starts. That's decent for an attacking midfielder. Going further back he scored 2 in 2 prior to his injury, and scored 2 and set up 3 in his 9 starts for Rovers this season. Again a very decent return.

On your point about him seeing himself as more valuable than the dressing room, you couldn't be more wrong. He's 21 and has already lost of year of his career to a horrible injury. To return from that and find himself on the bench behind guys like Skacel and McManus who simply weren't cutting it must've been brutal. He said all along the reason for him leaving was that he just wanted to play football, and he looked so delighted to just be on the pitch with us. Seriously. I've never seen a player look like he's enjoying his football as much, and I think that's the appreciation that a long injury gives you.

He wasn't played because he wasn't Gary Locke's player. Simple as that. Locke likes 'his boys' and Vaughan wasn't one of them.

Vaughan is a special talent. Barr and Cuthbert will probably be more consistent, solid players. But Vaughan has something special that few players have at this level - the ability to create something out of absolutely nothing. He clearly has a strong relationship with Raith, and the relegation will have hurt him more than any other player, but if he'd been fit in 2015/16 there's no chance he'd still be at Stark's Park. 

If Raith were to let him go then I reckon every other club in the Championship would happily take him.