The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Nairney]

14 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

I don't fully understand the emergency loan system?  Why was this not applicable here ? Ambrose/Commons are deemed emergency loans ? Is it only applicable if teams have an official 'feeder' relationship such as Celtic/Jobs or Celtic/Morton ?

I think it may well have been applicable, if we'd put in a request (or whatever the procedure is). The Rovers statement alluded to "regulations" playing a part in hampering our chances of signing a keeper. The SPFL's statement lays out what all the available options were and they seemed pretty reasonable. Our board are trying to deflect the blame for this away from themselves / management and point the finger at the SPFL, whilst gathering sympathy. It's a tad embarrassing.

[Michael W]

25 minutes ago, squeezeboxson said:

You couldn't afford an amateur 'keeper or an out of contract player for a game or two? It has been mentioned somewhere that he tried to sign a 'keeper from Celtic and also approached Rab Douglas (would've be great to see again!) So I don't buy that you couldn't afford one. I think Yogi has refused to sign a 'keeper who isn't up to Championship quality in the off chance he could just ask for a postponement. Which didn't work.

It would explain why no one was brought in after it became apparent Cuthbert would be unavailable for about six weeks. 

There is no excuse for last night, or the forthcoming games, however. 

[CALDERON]

If we can afford to sign 3 first team players in Osei, Syme and Crawford with no intention at all of playing them, im sure we can afford a keeper for a few weeks.

[havenbairn]

Great to hear yogi slagging the SPFL as a bunch of amateurs. Does he not know that his Chief Executive Eric Drysdale sits on their Board

[baillieinleeds]

Obviously it's not ideal and you'd avoid it if you can but...
Stevenson is obviously comfortable enough playing in goals. If we were bereft of attackers and say, Craig Barr was a competent striker nobody would bat an eyelid if he played up top and had a good game.
The goalkeeping situation wasn't the problem last night, our strikers inability to put away chances was.
The circus around the goalie is working as a great smokescreen to us not being able to take chances against a pretty shite side.
 
Back to basics in our next game.
Get Barr in front of Bene and M'Voto so we at least have a chance of winning second balls and having a base to begin attacks from rather than the constant pressure we seem to be under. Has to be Hardie and Stewart up front as well. As much as I want McManus to succeed I feel he'd be better coming off the bench. Throwing Yaw in at the deep end might show that he can swim with the big boys.
What harm will it do right now?

I agree about Yaw, let's see if he has what it takes

[Ding Dang Doo]

7 minutes ago, gav-ffc said:

Have had since the 4th of Feb when Cuthbert got injured to get someone else in. If the club thought having one fit goalkeeper for 3+ weeks was acceptable then it is the clubs fault they couldn't sign one in 3 days since the queens game.

Basically this. I find it ridiculous that we couldn't bring in a keeper of any sorts. Christ we had 20st Colin Stewart on the bench a few years ago and brought in a ringer from Kelty for a Challenge Cup match away at Patrick because of keeper injuries! For whatever reason the club didn't. We weren't exactly going to have Cuthbert or Lennox back anytime this month so should have at least had a plan in place for this event if we weren't going to sign anyone for financial reasons. 

The issue of offering a keeper for a few weeks was that perhaps, if the keeper had already played this season, would want a contract until the end of the season and this was something we weren't willing to offer? Isn't it the rule that a player cannot play for 3 clubs in a season and therefore if we, for example, signed Rab Douglas for a month then that would be him done until July? 

All in all it's a complete shambles and no kind of interview from Drysdale trying to spin it favourably will change my opinion on this. He's moaning about the SPFL board....he's on it! Unfortunately he just wants to be on it for all the glory and perks it brings his way.

Why didn't we do what Dundee did with Bobby Geddes and register Wayne Henderson to at least be named on the bench?

[CALDERON]

As far as I know, Henderson wasn't a goalie. Was a striker in the juniors.

[renton]

The thing of it is, last night's outcome is probably no different with an actual keeper in there.

[Ding Dang Doo]

3 minutes ago, renton said:

The thing of it is, last night's outcome is probably no different with an actual keeper in there.

I suppose the only argument to that is that we would've set up differently and not played a back 5. Having said that the goal had nothing to do with Stevenson being there and by the sounds of it we had enough changes that we should've taken at least one.

I think we all hoped when Hughes was appointed there would be an immediate up turn but I suppose it will take a long long time to undo the damage Locke and Jackson have done to our club. Survive this season, either by finishing 7/8th or in the playoffs and forget it ever happened. If we go down I really fear for what could happen to us.

Once thing to add....what does our horrific seasons of 2001/02, 2004/05 and this season all have in common? Drysdale! How he has survived through each crisis our club has faced over the past 20 years is beyond me!

[Guest]

Reading through your thread it soon becomes apparent that we're facing almost identical problems, we look at some of your players and think "oh no, Raith have so and so, he'll do us some damage" and of course people seem to fear the likes of Harkins, El Alagui etc with us, however for us that watch them week in week out we just aren't seeing this devastating play. Is it the systems we're playing ?, I notice some of you aren't happy with your lack of width and again we're the exact same, we have the players but they're either played out of position or not at all. 

Christ, I remember when the old 1st Division was full of flair and excitement but nowadays we're all full of doom and gloom !!!

[North Terrace Gazza]

I have to give huge credit to the vast majority of Raith fans here. At first I thought how unfair this whole situation was and then when you look further you realise it's all the clubs fault.
Most Raith fans instead of supporting their manager and chairman's stance have sussed quite clearly that their club was solely responsible for this whole embarrassing affair. Why didn't you just get a young keeper or an out of contract keeper, Rab Douglas? No Hughes wanted a top quality keeper from Celtic and when that fell through cried wolf.

[christinanade]

Don't you be doubting big yogi. Next you'll be telling us russell latapy was pish

[donny86]

What sort of deal is Lennox on?

 

Why are we holding his registration whilst he goes back to Australia, he should have been shipped straight back to Aberdeen in January to free up a loan / wage

The board approved Syme who has yet to play, and he has effectively taken the last pennies from the pot, this should never have been allowed with all our centre halves fit, and an injured keeper

Drysdale looks more and more incompetent as the weeks go on

[Skyline Drifter]

 

To clarify on some of the rule queries:

1 hour ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

I don't fully understand the emergency loan system?  Why was this not applicable here ? Ambrose/Commons are deemed emergency loans ? Is it only applicable if teams have an official 'feeder' relationship such as Celtic/Jobs or Celtic/Morton ?

"Emergency Loans" is just a name. Don't get caught up in it. It's a format of loan currently allowed outwith a window. An emergency loan was certainly available to Raith Rovers if they had been able to get one. They have already confirmed they had a deal in progress to sign a keeper from Celtic which fell through.

1 hour ago, squeezeboxson said:

I believe it is also to do with age and having your quota of loans at one time. Someone else will explain it better. But basically Commons and Ambrose couldn't have signed at the same time for Hibs.

Commons and Ambrose couldn't sign at the same time as you can only have one loan player born before 1st January 1995. There are loan limits. There are three different kinds of loan - Standard, Emergency and Development (u20's only). You can can have to five combined Standard and Emergency loans in total in a season but only four at any one time. You can have an additional four (I think) Development Loans which apply only for players born after 1st January 1997.

1 hour ago, rw89 said:

We signed an amateur keeper from Kelty Hearts who I think was Greg Flemings brother before. We've done it before, so I'm not sure why we've not done it again. Again, think it's the club and the way we're operating. 

You can't do that now. Was your previous incident in the SFL days? Rules were different then. An SPFL club (certainly a Championship one, not sure if the rule is relaxed at lower level) signing an amateur outwith a window is only given permission to play him at Development team level. They can't play first team until the next window opens. Eric Drysdale said in his interview last night that they couldn't play the 20's keeper (who is Australian and doesn't yet have international clearance anyway but leaving that aside) because he signed as an amateur and the SPFL doesn't let amateurs play first team. That's over-simplified but the gist is accurate. They can play first team (or Queens Park wouldn't be able to play a game!) but they can't sign outwith a window and do so. If you had signed an amateur keeper in January he'd be fine but signing one in February or now doesn't allow him to play first team until after the June window opens.

Championship sides can't field trialists either.

37 minutes ago, Ding Dang Doo said:

The issue of offering a keeper for a few weeks was that perhaps, if the keeper had already played this season, would want a contract until the end of the season and this was something we weren't willing to offer? Isn't it the rule that a player cannot play for 3 clubs in a season and therefore if we, for example, signed Rab Douglas for a month then that would be him done until July?

Why didn't we do what Dundee did with Bobby Geddes and register Wayne Henderson to at least be named on the bench?

Any player signing would HAVE to get a contract to the end of the season anyway. The minimum length of professional contract is to the opening of the next window so any free agent signing would have to sign to June. The 3 clubs in a season rule certainly stops you bringing in anyone who has been on loan somewhere else already this season if he either has played or wants to remain eligible to play for his parent club too. It wouldn't stop anyone coming in on loan from a club who hasn't played anywhere else already though.

No idea if Henderson was previously a professional footballer and never reinstated amateur? If so then he could have signed as a free agent in the same way Rab Douglas could have. If he's been a reinstated amateur then he'd have the same problem as the Australian boy in that signing as an amateur in February / March wouldn't see him allowed to play first team.

[Ding Dang Doo]

15 minutes ago, donny86 said:

What sort of deal is Lennox on?

 

Why are we holding his registration whilst he goes back to Australia, he should have been shipped straight back to Aberdeen in January to free up a loan / wage

The board approved Syme who has yet to play, and he has effectively taken the last pennies from the pot, this should never have been allowed with all our centre halves fit, and an injured keeper

Drysdale looks more and more incompetent as the weeks go on

I presume that there was some part of the loan contract for Lennox which stated we couldn't end it early. 

My whole concern here is that what the club is saying is contradictory. We are worried we couldn't afford to sign anyone yet Drysdale says we tried to sign Lennox to free up a loan space and Hughes effectively says we didn't want to bring in an u21 keeper. Yet we haven't signed any youth keeper all season other than a guy on amateur terms but we cannot afford to sign him or we'll be due some Australian club €60,000 unless we got them to waive that. Have we not been trying to do that all season?

My guess is that we simply gambled and failed to get the match postponed and gambled and failed to look weeks ago into bringing in another keeper.

Absolute shambles!

[Bailey1874]

What happens now then if, as some have said there are no funds to sign a keeper, will Raith have to continue playing an outfield player in goal until a fit keeper is available?

[Scottydog]

22 minutes ago, Bailey1874 said:

What happens now then if, as some have said there are no funds to sign a keeper, will Raith have to continue playing an outfield player in goal until a fit keeper is available?

That is what most would term the $1M question.

 

Sadly with us it'll more likely be the 99p?

[Dunning1874]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Commons and Ambrose couldn't sign at the same time as you can only have one loan player born before 1st January 1995. There are loan limits.

I assume then the BBC are talking nonsense when they describe Brian McLean as signing for Hibs on loan, and he is in fact signed permanently, as that would give them two at the same time? Or is the 1st January 1995 restriction also irrelevant if signing loanees from outwith Scotland?

[Skyline Drifter]

3 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

I assume then the BBC are talking nonsense when they describe Brian McLean as signing for Hibs on loan, and he is in fact signed permanently, as that would give them two at the same time? Or is the 1st January 1995 restriction also irrelevant if signing loanees from outwith Scotland?

There are no restrictions at all on signing loanees from outside Scotland, No limits in numbers (which is why Rangers could have 5 from Newcastle at the same time), no age restrictions or anything else. Technically a cross border loan isn't a loan at all, the player is temporarily released and then returned to the parent club later.

BUT you can't do a cross border loan outwith a window so clearly they aren't signing McLean on loan. He'll have been a free agent on 31 January presumably so eligible to sign a short term deal on that basis.

[Shadwell Dog]

The whole thing needs vastly simplified. To be able to field a whole team of loan players from abroad is surely farcical and needs tightened up pronto. I also think there should be a tighter limit on development loans. Clubs should be bringing through their own talent and not stifling it by signing young players who cant get a game for the old firm.