Livingston - all the threads merged

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 hours ago, Livilion28 said:

I think we need to seriously start looking to tie down our players. That’s Halkett , pittman , Byrne and Mullin all been linked with other clubs. Our team could be smashed apart for next season the way it’s looking 

Could be smashed apart this season going by all these rumours. 

[LogieLivi]

Clyde fans reckoning that Keaghan Jacobs will sign for them at the end of the season.
????????????????

[ATLIS]

Don't get why everyone's getting so pessimistic over Carrick leaving, he did next to nothing. He has nothing but pace, Robinson is twice the player. Not sure why all alarms are set to panic here, Mullin is going to leave and for some cash. Good, that's what we're here to do. We're a selling club, we don't have the fans or the finances to be anything other than that. Until we're able to stump up 2k fans we will be in a relegation fight and be selling our guys on for cash. 

Hopkin has done brilliant replacing the guys that have left so far and I have total faith that he'll continue to do so. There's no point in us breaking the bank to try take a shot at glory, look where it got us before. 

We're where we are due to the hard work done by Hoppy over the last few years, the pay off from that won't ever be playoffs or promotion. It's always going to be more revenue into the club and attempting to invest it smartly and to keep us alive. We can't afford anything else. I think a few people have their heads in the clouds, if players don't perform well, they can go. Carrick had around 7 goals in 41 games for us, he's never a Championship standard player and as such has moved on.

If the team gets smashed apart, so be it. As long as we still have a club at the end of the day. We can't afford to keep players who are well above our level as a club, re: Halkett, Pittman, Byrne, Mullen and Mullin. Our biggest selling point to players wanting to join us is that we're a stepping stone. We have a good track record of getting players moves and advancing their careers. We're paying part time wages on a full time scheme, by rights we should be scrapping at 8th place but Hopkin has done well and proved himself. This also means that there'll come a time where we lose him, that's my biggest worry. Not losing any of the current players but losing Hopkin who seemingly has pulled the club together at all ends and has everyone working towards a common goal and fighting for each other rather than everyone undercutting each other for power. My biggest worry is who we replace Hopkin with, that's the biggest challenge within the next 6 months to 3 years given on when and where he goes. I haven't a clue who I'd take a look at for it whatsoever.

For the time being though can't we all enjoy perhaps the best time in the clubs history for the last 5-7 years?

[Livilion28]

7 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Don't get why everyone's getting so pessimistic over Carrick leaving, he did next to nothing. He has nothing but pace, Robinson is twice the player. Not sure why all alarms are set to panic here, Mullin is going to leave and for some cash. Good, that's what we're here to do. We're a selling club, we don't have the fans or the finances to be anything other than that. Until we're able to stump up 2k fans we will be in a relegation fight and be selling our guys on for cash. 

Hopkin has done brilliant replacing the guys that have left so far and I have total faith that he'll continue to do so. There's no point in us breaking the bank to try take a shot at glory, look where it got us before. 

We're where we are due to the hard work done by Hoppy over the last few years, the pay off from that won't ever be playoffs or promotion. It's always going to be more revenue into the club and attempting to invest it smartly and to keep us alive. We can't afford anything else. I think a few people have their heads in the clouds, if players don't perform well, they can go. Carrick had around 7 goals in 41 games for us, he's never a Championship standard player and as such has moved on.

If the team gets smashed apart, so be it. As long as we still have a club at the end of the day. We can't afford to keep players who are well above our level as a club, re: Halkett, Pittman, Byrne, Mullen and Mullin. Our biggest selling point to players wanting to join us is that we're a stepping stone. We have a good track record of getting players moves and advancing their careers. We're paying part time wages on a full time scheme, by rights we should be scrapping at 8th place but Hopkin has done well and proved himself. This also means that there'll come a time where we lose him, that's my biggest worry. Not losing any of the current players but losing Hopkin who seemingly has pulled the club together at all ends and has everyone working towards a common goal and fighting for each other rather than everyone undercutting each other for power. My biggest worry is who we replace Hopkin with, that's the biggest challenge within the next 6 months to 3 years given on when and where he goes. I haven't a clue who I'd take a look at for it whatsoever.

For the time being though can't we all enjoy perhaps the best time in the clubs history for the last 5-7 years?

A great post enjoyed reading that 

[Afro]

Don't get why everyone's getting so pessimistic over Carrick leaving, he did next to nothing. He has nothing but pace, Robinson is twice the player. Not sure why all alarms are set to panic here, Mullin is going to leave and for some cash. Good, that's what we're here to do. We're a selling club, we don't have the fans or the finances to be anything other than that. Until we're able to stump up 2k fans we will be in a relegation fight and be selling our guys on for cash. 

Hopkin has done brilliant replacing the guys that have left so far and I have total faith that he'll continue to do so. There's no point in us breaking the bank to try take a shot at glory, look where it got us before. 

We're where we are due to the hard work done by Hoppy over the last few years, the pay off from that won't ever be playoffs or promotion. It's always going to be more revenue into the club and attempting to invest it smartly and to keep us alive. We can't afford anything else. I think a few people have their heads in the clouds, if players don't perform well, they can go. Carrick had around 7 goals in 41 games for us, he's never a Championship standard player and as such has moved on.

If the team gets smashed apart, so be it. As long as we still have a club at the end of the day. We can't afford to keep players who are well above our level as a club, re: Halkett, Pittman, Byrne, Mullen and Mullin. Our biggest selling point to players wanting to join us is that we're a stepping stone. We have a good track record of getting players moves and advancing their careers. We're paying part time wages on a full time scheme, by rights we should be scrapping at 8th place but Hopkin has done well and proved himself. This also means that there'll come a time where we lose him, that's my biggest worry. Not losing any of the current players but losing Hopkin who seemingly has pulled the club together at all ends and has everyone working towards a common goal and fighting for each other rather than everyone undercutting each other for power. My biggest worry is who we replace Hopkin with, that's the biggest challenge within the next 6 months to 3 years given on when and where he goes. I haven't a clue who I'd take a look at for it whatsoever.

For the time being though can't we all enjoy perhaps the best time in the clubs history for the last 5-7 years?

Stop talking so much sense. In all seriousness, a great post, neatly sums it up. Every club in world football bar one or two has a price it will sell their players for, we’re no different. In an ideal world the players mentioned above could sign extensions to help net the club cash come the summer, unfortunately the real world doesn’t operate like that, and we end up in situations like we did with Danny Mullen.

After we took that shelling from Stranraer, I said I’d be happy with a squad of players who wanted to play here, and put in the effort every match. We’re lucky now that that’s happening and they’re getting the results to back that effort up. A place in the Premiership would be an achievement matching anything I can think of in recent Scottish footballing history, given the wages we pay. But after the amount of shysters and nutters I’ve seen here, I’d be happy with a manager who’s invested in the club’s future and a squad of players who want to be here - whether that’s in the Premiership or Lowland League, it’s where we will end up.

[ATLIS]

13 minutes ago, Afro said:

 

Stop talking so much sense. In all seriousness, a great post, neatly sums it up. Every club in world football bar one or two has a price it will sell their players for, we’re no different. In an ideal world the players mentioned above could sign extensions to help net the club cash come the summer, unfortunately the real world doesn’t operate like that, and we end up in situations like we did with Danny Mullen.

After we took that shelling from Stranraer, I said I’d be happy with a squad of players who wanted to play here, and put in the effort every match. We’re lucky now that that’s happening and they’re getting the results to back that effort up. A place in the Premiership would be an achievement matching anything I can think of in recent Scottish footballing history, given the wages we pay. But after the amount of shysters and nutters I’ve seen here, I’d be happy with a manager who’s invested in the club’s future and a squad of players who want to be here - whether that’s in the Premiership or Lowland League, it’s where we will end up.

 

Genuinely sick of seeing fans on here or on Facebook as if we should be competing for everything and should be keeping our best players. I don't know if they're outright daft or stuck in the CIS Cup glory days. I'm glad we have a bunch of guys, be it players, managers, directors at the club who are looking up and forward rather than backwards trying to replicate.

The constant negativity around the club, generated by some fans really will be driving people away and stopping them coming back. In a perfect world we'd have fans who back the club no matter what and can take a look at the cards on the table and deal with what we have now rather than what we had. I always take the time, be it at my work or wherever just to talk the club up. You never know who's listening and even having a few positive things stick in someone's mind about the club can help their decision to return.

I think some amongst ourselves need to take stock and have a think through about where the club is at currently and adjust expectations accordingly. Getting more fans in should be the biggest aim for all of us, building up a strong core of a fan base from what we have and making use of the things the club offers.

I'd personally enjoy seeing the drum that's sat behind the desk at the reception for 6-9 months get used. The players all paid for it and want a bit of atmosphere at the games, it would only be fair to repay what we've seen on the pitch this season. Having a section set out for a bit of atmosphere would be brilliant, given we had it back in the day with the DBM. It can be invaluable and you see it now at games where it can all fall a bit flat and noiseless. Not sure if there's anyone on here that's interested in anything like that but even to get a group of 10-20 folk in one area to bring  a bit of life to the games would be brilliant. Away games have always been a laugh, St Mirren away when we went top of the league sticks in my mind for so many good reasons. We just need to go about it the right way and all build the club up together.

The time is now for us all to try and use the foundation laid from the last year and a bit with John Ward coming in and good football being played. We can take it to the next level and do what we can to help make the club the best it can be or we can sit around and moan on Facebook about how they should be signing the best players up to £1k a week with a free house () despite not having the fans to back up the club's finances

Edited January 11, 2018 by ATLIS

[LIVIFOREVER]

It's a fine balance though, making 10/15K selling off a few players before their contract runs out so they don't leave for nothing, against keeping them for the season and making over 200K in prize money for a top 4 spot. Also, dismantling the team mid season doesn't exactly draw fans to our games, we don't get that many fans as it is but the only way I can see us increasing our gate is having a steady run in the Championship and being stable off the pitch too. Like I said, it is a fine balance, Hoppy is doing a great job in keeping it all going. 

I just see this season as an unexpected opportunity to be in the play offs, I don't see us being anywhere near them next season so I think it would be a shame if we ended up flogging our best players and finishing the season scraping 7th or 8th place.

[andylivi1]

Great reading the last couple of pages, as has been said I feel a lot of our fans are so unrealistic and stuck in the past and it’s really not helping. 

At the start of the season fans read unrealistic transfer targets, Andy Ryan was a target but we got blown out the water wages wise by Dunfermline, but some weren’t happy we didn’t match the 1k a week wage, crazy. 

I read somewhere someone wanting Rory McAllister, everyone in Scottish Football knows he’s never going full time, he’s making a lot more at Peterhead than he ever would going full time, especially with us.

We've got to be realistic, we have a fan base of around 800-1000 on a good day, that will only get us so far, it’s really simple, without increased crowds we will be a selling club and a stepping stone for the best players, we are signing, on the whole league 1 players and trying to improve them, and players that drop down the divisions because they aren’t getting game time, it’s sad but it’s reality, this season I’m enjoying every minute while I can because as is already happening this team will be torn up next season. 

Tbh, I’m very happy to see the Club looking after it’s finances and not doing anything daft to put the Club at risk in the long term.

Regardless of what happens, staying in this league should be seen as success, it will in my view but I fear many won’t be happy if we don’t make the playoffs. 

[Cptn Hooch]

10 hours ago, LogieLivi said:

Clyde fans reckoning that Keaghan Jacobs will sign for them at the end of the season.

I can't see that happening

[Demented Zebra]

49 minutes ago, andylivi1 said:

Great reading the last couple of pages, as has been said I feel a lot of our fans are so unrealistic and stuck in the past and it’s really not helping. 

At the start of the season fans read unrealistic transfer targets, Andy Ryan was a target but we got blown out the water wages wise by Dunfermline, but some weren’t happy we didn’t match the 1k a week wage, crazy. 

I read somewhere someone wanting Rory McAllister, everyone in Scottish Football knows he’s never going full time, he’s making a lot more at Peterhead than he ever would going full time, especially with us.

We've got to be realistic, we have a fan base of around 800-1000 on a good day, that will only get us so far, it’s really simple, without increased crowds we will be a selling club and a stepping stone for the best players, we are signing, on the whole league 1 players and trying to improve them, and players that drop down the divisions because they aren’t getting game time, it’s sad but it’s reality, this season I’m enjoying every minute while I can because as is already happening this team will be torn up next season. 

Tbh, I’m very happy to see the Club looking after it’s finances and not doing anything daft to put the Club at risk in the long term.

Regardless of what happens, staying in this league should be seen as success, it will in my view but I fear many won’t be happy if we don’t make the playoffs. 

800 to 1,000 fans is a hard task to run a full time club its strange as your town has quite a population , however sandwiched between Glasgow and Edinburgh does not make it easy to get more fans. Does your club give out free tickets to schools ? We do that quite often get the kids used to going to games. Another is free kids season ticket if the guardian has one. 

[andylivi1]

1 hour ago, Demented Zebra said:

800 to 1,000 fans is a hard task to run a full time club its strange as your town has quite a population , however sandwiched between Glasgow and Edinburgh does not make it easy to get more fans. Does your club give out free tickets to schools ? We do that quite often get the kids used to going to games. Another is free kids season ticket if the guardian has one. 

We do run initiatives, think we gave away a few hundred season tickets to local sports clubs, schools etc but they had to apply. 

We also offered season tickets at £18 for under 12s, sadly we are sorely lacking any kind of marketing, that is what we are lacking the most, if you aren’t a fan of the club you probably wouldn’t know about these deals or if there was even a game on at Livingston on a Saturday. 

Everything is done by volunteers, we are basically running a full time club but with part time staff and wages. 

Ive often said I’d quite happily have 1 less player and employ a full time marketing person, nothing would happen straight away but we should be looking at a club like Motherwell who are being marketed the right way and are seeing the benefits with crowd increases. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by andylivi1

[LIVIFOREVER]

We're not used to seeing Livi lose players to other clubs in our own division like this, and outbid by rival teams all the time too, it'll take time for it to sink in, even for fans that understand our financial constraints it's difficult seeing players leave halfway through the season. Most of our existence it has been us taking the best players from other clubs though so I guess karma has come home to roost this season.

I was prepared for us to lose 4 or 5 players at the end of the season but that gives Hoppy a lot more time to prepare for next season, and that's the nature of the game, we were lucky we kept everyone together last season and went into the season with momentum from winning the league and having continuity within the team, same manager and players, it'll be a lot tougher next season.  

I'll just be glad when this transfer window closes and hopefully Halkett, Gallagher, Pittman, Byrne and Mullin are still with us, if not then we'll just have to see what players Hoppy has brought in to replace them and hope for the best. We are 10 points above Dumbarton and 13 above Falkirk to stay clear of 9th place, but Falkirk are bringing in a lot of players and Dumbarton are black belts at staying up in this league so I wouldn't take anything for granted. A lot of football to play yet.

Edited January 12, 2018 by LIVIFOREVER

[ATLIS]

58 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

We're not used to seeing Livi lose players to other clubs in our own division like this, and outbid by rival teams all the time too, it'll take time for it to sink in, even for fans that understand our financial constraints it's difficult seeing players leave halfway through the season. Most of our existence it has been us taking the best players from other clubs though so I guess karma has come home to roost this season.

I was prepared for us to lose 4 or 5 players at the end of the season but that gives Hoppy a lot more time to prepare for next season, and that's the nature of the game, we were lucky we kept everyone together last season and went into the season with momentum from winning the league and having continuity within the team, same manager and players, it'll be a lot tougher next season.  

I'll just be glad when this transfer window closes and hopefully Halkett, Gallagher, Pittman, Byrne and Mullin are still with us, if not then we'll just have to see what players Hoppy has brought in to replace them and hope for the best. We are 10 points above Dumbarton and 13 above Falkirk to stay clear of 9th place, but Falkirk are bringing in a lot of players and Dumbarton are black belts at staying up in this league so I wouldn't take anything for granted. A lot of football to play yet.

We're losing players to teams with x2/x3/x4 our fans. They have over double the income we do. 

It's probably the setting in of the new playoff system, bigger teams are coming down and as such there's more money in the league with those teams. We can't compete financially with Falkirk's and Dunfermline's income let alone St Mirren and Dundee Utd. You're making it out as if we giving away players for free to Dumbarton and Queen of the South but in reality we're selling on players and getting cash while we can to bigger clubs.

It's not just the 5 figure fees we're getting, we're taking on sell on fees too which could potentially mean a bit more down the line and help us grow a bit more. 

Falkirk/Dunfermline/St Mirren/Dundee Utd/Inverness aren't our rivals, teams like Dumbarton and Brechin are. They operate on a similar financial basis as us, and by rights that's who we should be battling against. I don't know if that'll take time for it to sink in with you but we have no right to be challenging at the top of the table so enjoy it while we can.

Edited January 12, 2018 by ATLIS

[Demented Zebra]

9 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

We're losing players to teams with x2/x3/x4 our fans. They have over double the income we do. 

It's probably the setting in of the new playoff system, bigger teams are coming down and as such there's more money in the league with those teams. We can't compete financially with Falkirk's and Dunfermline's income let alone St Mirren and Dundee Utd. You're making it out as if we giving away players for free to Dumbarton and Queen of the South but in reality we're selling on players and getting cash while we can to bigger clubs.

It's not just the 5 figure fees we're getting, we're taking on sell on fees too which could potentially mean a bit more down the line and help us grow a bit more. 

Falkirk/Dunfermline/St Mirren/Dundee Utd/Inverness aren't our rivals, teams like Dumbarton and Brechin are. They operate on a similar financial basis as us, and by rights that's who we should be battling against. I don't know if that'll take time for it to sink in with you but we have no right to be challenging at the top of the table so enjoy it while we can.

Every club below the old firm do only the bigger the club the more money they make. Our old board drove me nuts for letting good player leave for next to nothing the new board are better. Kenny MacLean 10% sell on. John McGinn 35% sell on , Stevie Malian 25% , Lewis Morgan add on's no idea what that is as of yet.  That's the way forward for clubs like Livie and Saints. 

[ATLIS]

Just now, Demented Zebra said:

Every club below the old firm do only the bigger the club the more money they make. Our old board drove me nuts for letting good player leave for next to nothing the new board are better. Kenny MacLean 10% sell on. John McGinn 35% sell on , Stevie Malian 25% , Lewis Morgan add on's no idea what that is as of yet.  That's the way forward for clubs like Livie and Saints. 

We've got a sell on for Mullen at you guys, Mullin and Halkett will probably end up with it as well. It's a smart investment, especially when you know they will go on to big things

[LIVIFOREVER]

Just now, ATLIS said:

We're losing players to teams with x2/x3/x4 our fans. They have over double the income we do. 

It's probably the setting in of the new playoff system, bigger teams are coming down and as such there's more money in the league with those teams. We can't compete financially with Falkirk's and Dunfermline's income let alone St Mirren and Dundee Utd. You're making it out as if we giving away players for free to Dumbarton and Queen of the South but in reality we're selling on players and getting cash while we can to bigger clubs.

It's not just the 5 figure fees we're getting, we're taking on sell on fees too which could potentially mean a bit more down the line and help us grow a bit more. 

Falkirk/Dunfermline/St Mirren/Dundee Utd/Inverness aren't our rivals, teams like Dumbarton and Brechin are. They operate on a similar financial basis as us, and by rights that's who we should be battling against. I don't know if that'll take time for it to sink in with you but we have no right to be challenging at the top of the table so enjoy it while we can.

Yeah I know but as I said, we're not used to seeing it happen, even last season we were the big fish in a part time league and strengthened in January with the likes of Gallagher, Keaghan and and Rafa, as opposed to this season where we're in danger of losing our best players and being weaker.

I'm not doing that at all, doesn't matter who we're losing them too, it is making us weaker and we're in a very good place competing with those teams, and if we keep the players we'd have a great chance to finish in the play offs and make a lot more money in doing so. The cash we're making from selling players near the end of their contract is peanuts in comparison to a top 4 place. And we've budgeted for keeping those players all season so selling them now is a bit desperate imo, but maybe we are desperate?

The sell ons are good in theory but historically we've never made much from them yet, the best chance of cashing in big time was Dorrans but Massone sold his sell on contract before he left, I think we made something from Scougall playing a certain amount of games so that was good, but my main concern this season is selling too many of our key players and crashing down into the danger zone. Look what happened to Dundee Utd a couple of seasons ago to see what could happen to us.

Those teams you've mentioned may not be our rivals in a financial sense but they are in league positions, and currently we're in a great position to finish above half of them, and it just seems a shame if we throw that away this season. I wasn't actually referring to myself in it taking time to sink in ya cheeky fecker I was talking about your earlier post mentioning folk on FB going on about McAllister, Buchanan etc, i'm well awate on how ridiculous that is with our finances. But as I mentioned in my post, we've budgeted for this squad so imo we should hold onto the players and finish as high as possible instead of making 10K or less here and there and losing out on a great chance for financial rewards of a top 4 finish.

[Afro]

Ive often said I’d quite happily have 1 less player and employ a full time marketing person, nothing would happen straight away but we should be looking at a club like Motherwell who are being marketed the right way and are seeing the benefits with crowd increases. 

Think you’re a bit like me Andy, I’ve been saying as much since Charles Burnett was (attempting to be) the commercial manager. Motherwell aren’t perfect, and they’re certainly having a torrid time of it on the park at the moment, but there’s no doubt their image off it has improved greatly. They genuinely seem to have a grasp of things within their community, after a few years out in the wild. I’m not saying hiring some marketing lackey is the magical answer to all our problems, but there’s no doubt in my mind that having someone with advertising and marketing acumen in the club is as important as a 4G pitch, new stadium, etc. If we don’t, we will be left behind. I’ve got absolute faith in John Ward’s intentions for the club but one man can’t do it himself.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Just now, Demented Zebra said:

Every club below the old firm do only the bigger the club the more money they make. Our old board drove me nuts for letting good player leave for next to nothing the new board are better. Kenny MacLean 10% sell on. John McGinn 35% sell on , Stevie Malian 25% , Lewis Morgan add on's no idea what that is as of yet.  That's the way forward for clubs like Livie and Saints. 

Yeah and making sure our best players are on lengthy contracts too so what we're seeing just now doesn't happen. It was pretty obv which players we had/have are going to go on to bigger things, we should've had that sorted last season when it was obv we were winning the league.

[wee_bairn]

Great read guys; it's very refreshing to visit a clubs thread without the constant trolling. Every club in Scotland are selling clubs unfortunately. As mentioned previously, letting players go for the right price makes the club far more attractive for future signings. Ideally you want to attract players who have the potential to be at a lot higher level in the game than where you are and you just need to enjoy the talent on show at the time. Don't feel Carrick comes under this bracket, he won't be missed and is replaceable. 

Good luck to Buchanan - great move for him to stay full time and play 1st team football.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Just now, Afro said:

 

Think you’re a bit like me Andy, I’ve been saying as much since Charles Burnett was (attempting to be) the commercial manager. Motherwell aren’t perfect, and they’re certainly having a torrid time of it on the park at the moment, but there’s no doubt their image off it has improved greatly. They genuinely seem to have a grasp of things within their community, after a few years out in the wild. I’m not saying hiring some marketing lackey is the magical answer to all our problems, but there’s no doubt in my mind that having someone with advertising and marketing acumen in the club is as important as a 4G pitch, new stadium, etc. If we don’t, we will be left behind. I’ve got absolute faith in John Ward’s intentions for the club but one man can’t do it himself.

 

My mate's son offered his services in marketing/promotion for next to nothing but Livi wanted him to travel back from Glasgow to Livingston every day so he couldn't do it, he's living at a flat in Glasgow and attending Glasgow Uni as well as a marketing job in Glasgow instead. We really need to get someone in marketing at Livi if we want to increase our gates and make the most of ourselves playing in the Championship.