The Wrestling Thread

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Yeah because I've totally been bumming up the Attitude Era and referring to it in every post...

As for those referring to the Attitude Era when I've barely mentioned it, perhaps you never lived through the greatest period in wrestling history and thus don't actually realise what a joke the product on display today is in comparison?

You might not have specifically referred to the Attitude Era by name, but every suggestion you make about improving wrestling is something that was popular between 1999 and 2002 - "Bring back blood, bring back the Hardcore title, make Jerry Lawler a heel, end the brand split, bring back bad language, get rid of the World Heavyweight title, etc,etc". I hate to be the one to break it to you, but none of those things are going to happen any time soon.

If you hate the current product so much, there is thousands of hours of footage you can watch on Youtube featuring men slicing their heads with razor blades and smashing each other with tinfoil rubbish bins, all while Jerry Lawler talks about puppies in the background.

[DomDom]

If you hate the current product so much, there is thousands of hours of footage you can watch on Youtube featuring men slicing their heads with razor blades and smashing each other with tinfoil rubbish bins, all while Jerry Lawler talks about puppies in the background.

Indeed. And if you want to see that kind of thing badly enough, you WILL go and find it. A lot of good stuff can be found from the smaller promotions too in that regard. When done right, garbage wrestling is superb. Problem is, it's a niche product, and therefore completely out of place in WWE, a mainstream product.

[#Gary]

How annoying are people who constantly post them daft faces?

[Paulo Sergio]

Do you fancy explaining this?

If you seriously think he got his HoF spot on the back of his commentary, then you're mental. For what it's worth, I was always a big fan of the Lawler/Ross combination.

As for heel commentary, The King approached a "turn off" level and it's the same place as Michael Cole is at now. It's possible for heels to be dislikeable but listenable. Bobby Heenan was an utter master of the art.

You might not have specifically referred to the Attitude Era by name, but every suggestion you make about improving wrestling is something that was popular between 1999 and 2002 - "Bring back blood, bring back the Hardcore title, make Jerry Lawler a heel, end the brand split, bring back bad language, get rid of the World Heavyweight title, etc,etc". I hate to be the one to break it to you, but none of those things are going to happen any time soon.

If you hate the current product so much, there is thousands of hours of footage you can watch on Youtube featuring men slicing their heads with razor blades and smashing each other with tinfoil rubbish bins, all while Jerry Lawler talks about puppies in the background.

Indeed. And if you want to see that kind of thing badly enough, you WILL go and find it. A lot of good stuff can be found from the smaller promotions too in that regard. When done right, garbage wrestling is superb. Problem is, it's a niche product, and therefore completely out of place in WWE, a mainstream product.

How annoying are people who constantly post them daft faces?

Can't be arsed replying to every post individually but it's clear you (grown men) are all easily entertained by a product which right now is mainly aimed at people under the age of around 10, which has about as much story and creativity behind it as Goldilocks and the three bears.

The only reason I'm half watching this again is because The Rock returned back in February then hosted WrestleMania which did have me interested for a bit as Dwayne Johnson can actually entertain (which, as the name WWE suggests, is actually meant to happen), and since him and Cena aren't facing each other until WrestleMania next year I feel inclined to keep watching until then.

If they script Cena - who has been an utter poison to this product for the past half-dozen years, whether you like it or not, the only reason he has been pushed so much is because the kids love him, which in turn makes the company a lot of money, which is ultimately what they seem to care about nowadays, rather than the loyal fan - to get one over on The Rock, then I'm done with it for good.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Paulo Sergio

[Marshmallo]

Cena got his original push because the adult fans loved him.

[J_Stewart]

Can't be arsed replying to every post individually but it's clear you (grown men) are all easily entertained by a product which right now is mainly aimed at people under the age of around 10, which has about as much story and creativity behind it as Goldilocks and the three bears.

The only reason I'm half watching this again is because The Rock returned back in February then hosted WrestleMania which did have me interested for a bit as Dwayne Johnson can actually entertain (which, as the name WWE suggests, is actually meant to happen), and since him and Cena aren't facing each other until WrestleMania next year I feel inclined to keep watching until then.

If they script Cena - who has been an utter poison to this product for the past half-dozen years, whether you like it or not, the only reason he has been pushed so much is because the kids love him, which in turn makes the company a lot of money, which is ultimately what they seem to care about nowadays, rather than the loyal fan - to get one over on The Rock, then I'm done with it for good.

Is it not a little ironic, implying that 'grown men' who enjoy WWE's product have an immature taste (and I'm assuming that's what you were doing with the 'easily entertained' line) when you've constantly glorified hardcore matches, weapons, blood, lewd commentary and profanity-laced promos - a 14 year olds wet dream as it were.

Yeah, the Rock was - and still is - entertaining, but it's not like people as charasmatic and athletic as him are a dime a dozen, the reason he was such a Superstar is because he was a one-off. However, to say that The Rock is the only person around WWE at present that is entertaining or worth watching is ridiculous.

As Marshmallo said, the only reason Cena got his push to begin with was, much like CM Punk this summer, her got over huge with the adult audience. What sense would it make for a Business such as WWE to make their top guy look weak against someone that shows up 3 times a quarter max? Unless The Rock was to commit to even half or a quarter of a full-schedule I certainly wouldn't have him win at Wrestlemania.

Edit to add: Aye, those faces are really annoying.

Edited October 14, 2011 by J_Stewart

[DomDom]

Can't be arsed replying to every post individually but it's clear you (grown men) are all easily entertained by a product which right now is mainly aimed at people under the age of around 10, which has about as much story and creativity behind it as Goldilocks and the three bears.

There's lots of things aimed at kids that manage to entertain lots of adults, so that point is a crock of shit right off the bat. Secondly, not all wrestling right now is aimed at kids, and if you even had a slight clue what you were talking about, you would know this.

It amuses me that you put so much stock into this "for kids" thing when we have been bemoaning it on here for a good while, and again your ignorance doesn't allow you to actually see that. It's pretty clear that you're just interested in the kinds of things that would have seen WWE fail to evolve. In the end, WWE have to ensure their future fanbase, which they're doing. Unlike yourself, most of us actually KNOW this.

The only reason I'm half watching this again is because The Rock returned back in February then hosted WrestleMania which did have me interested for a bit as Dwayne Johnson can actually entertain (which, as the name WWE suggests, is actually meant to happen), and since him and Cena aren't facing each other until WrestleMania next year I feel inclined to keep watching until then.

If they script Cena - who has been an utter poison to this product for the past half-dozen years, whether you like it or not, the only reason he has been pushed so much is because the kids love him, which in turn makes the company a lot of money, which is ultimately what they seem to care about nowadays, rather than the loyal fan - to get one over on The Rock, then I'm done with it for good.

John Cena has been a poison? This makes his popularity and ability to get heat from an audience fairly odd.

As for caring about making money... you do realise that's the whole point of running a business, right? WWE went close to going out of business when WCW were around because nobody was watching. Nobody was buying the merch and nobody cared. Are you suggesting that this kind of thing happening again would be beneficial to WWE or something?

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by "loyal fans"? Ones that only watch because The Rock happens to be coming back? Or the ones who watch every week to see their favourite wrestlers?

No doubt you'll use your "I can't be bothered responding to every post" trick that you used before to avoid getting involved in a discussion which you are clearly out of your depth with.

[The Hero of the Day]

Paulo Sergio just seems like one of those marks who think that the Attitude era will return and wrestling will be saved if Kane puts his mask back on. It's not 1999 anymore, get over it.

This

Sorry to detract from the serious discussion that's going on, but while thinking about funny promos I was reminded of Ahmed Johnson on Warzone for the Playstation.

What the f**k is he talking about?

One thing that can't disagreed upon is that Ahmed's music was sick.

As for the second highlighted part, you do realise that is one of the main things that a heel does? And it's one of the things which made Jerry Lawler brilliant. You do know he's a "Hall of Famer"? Or do you?

So is Pete Rose and Drew Carey.

[DomDom]

So is Pete Rose and Drew Carey.

Come on now. We both know Lawler has done enough to warrant his place.

[The Hero of the Day]

Come on now. We both know Lawler has done enough to warrant his place.

He has, he has. I was highlighting the irrelevancy of the Hall of Fame argument rather than Lawler himself.

Edited October 14, 2011 by The Hero of the Day

[Shuggie_Murray7]

It baffles me when people complain how utterly terrible and lacking in entertainment WWE is, yet still watch religiously. SOL springs to mind, with countless "Cena is shite, if he wins I'm never watching WWE again" only to pipe up first to ask "anyone else watchin Raw?". You really don't have to watch WWE, there are hundreds of promotions out there and one of them somwhere will offer what you're looking for.

Of course there is going to be terrible segments on shows, but to say there's NO entertainment is miles off the mark.

And PG has nothing to do with it, if blood, violence and swearing is what you're looking for then maybe you're better suited to watching a copy of Scarface.

[DomDom]

He has, he has. I was highlighting the irrelevancy of the Hall of Fame argument rather than Lawler himself.

Koko B Ware is a much better example. The wrestlers do usually tend to have good reason for being there.

It baffles me when people complain how utterly terrible and lacking in entertainment WWE is, yet still watch religiously. SOL springs to mind, with countless "Cena is shite, if he wins I'm never watching WWE again" only to pipe up first to ask "anyone else watchin Raw?". You really don't have to watch WWE, there are hundreds of promotions out there and one of them somwhere will offer what you're looking for.

That last point is the key one. I don't think I'd be able to watch ANY wrestling if I hadn't gone and taken the plunge with numerous other places. It makes the dung of WWE standable because they still produce some decent stuff along with it. I don't know if I could take the dung though if I didn't have alternatives. And the range of alternatives is vast, and not exactly hard to find either. You just have to be bothered enough to look for it.

Promotions I watch: WWE, TNA ( barely ), PWG, ROH, ICW, CZW, BJW, Dragon Gate, Dragon Gate USA, NOAH, NJPW, PBW, SWA, BCW, CHIKARA, IPW:UK

That's just scratching the surface of what you can find as well.

[bkay]

Impact has been very good last few shows and is the best show this week. Hopefully it keeps up after BFG.

[MTJ]

Sorry to detract from the serious discussion that's going on, but while thinking about funny promos I was reminded of Ahmed Johnson on Warzone for the Playstation.

What the f**k is he talking about?

I listen to wrestling shoot interviews a lot and guys like D'Lo Brown, Ron Simmons and the Godfather say hes the dumbest wrestler they've ever met by a country mile.

[bkay]

Dave Laguna joins to TNA to be director of creative writing leaving ROH. Another great move by TNA. Finally moving in the right direction(hopefully)

[Dunning1874]

I hated all of them games, and I include the ECW game in that. Horrific gameplay. Nothing will ever match the games AKI and THQ did for the N64.

Oh, the N64 games are the pinnacle of wrestling. Sad as we are, every post pay-per-view Monday a crowd of us gather in my mates house to watch the previous nights PPV, and we always have a computer game tournament to precede it; the WCW games on N64 are the only times I ever win, as they consist of randomly button bashing and hoping you win as a result. If it's not one of them or playing as Undertaker on Smackdown 2, I'm lost.

[Ludo*1]

I agree with a lot of what Sergio says to be fair. WWE wrestling, whether we like it or not is in a lull period, it doesn't compare to to the Attitude Era nor even the Golden Era. Slowly but surely, steps are being taken to get WWE back to where they belong, CM Punk for example, whilst I can't stand him I can see he's shook up the company and brought some much needed excitement.

A lot depends on what Triple H does in his new role I suppose, most people are giving Sin Cara the benefit of the doubt here and are sure he'll cut out his mistakes, but it was obvious the fans would not take to him as much when they already had Rey Mysterio.

Why is WWE not as great as it once was? A lack of competition. WWE was so great, it killed off WCW and simply took over ECW. TNA is not on the same level as either of these promotions, but once/IF it is, you can bet your house on it, WWE will be hitting top form.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

I agree with a lot of what Sergio says to be fair. WWE wrestling, whether we like it or not is in a lull period, it doesn't compare to to the Attitude Era nor even the Golden Era. Slowly but surely, steps are being taken to get WWE back to where they belong, CM Punk for example, whilst I can't stand him I can see he's shook up the company and brought some much needed excitement.

That's where you're going wrong, stop trying to compare it to other periods. It's not like any period we've seen before. It's not going to be another Attitude so the sooner people accept this and stop comparing them then they will see that it's still entertaining.

Why is WWE not as great as it once was? A lack of competition. WWE was so great, it killed off WCW and simply took over ECW. TNA is not on the same level as either of these promotions, but once/IF it is, you can bet your house on it, WWE will be hitting top form.

As hundreds of people have mentioned in interviews, Vince puts out his best TV when someone is trying to put him out of business and that just isn't happening. They know that they can take chances on people because even if it backfires they will still gets millions tuning in each week as there is no real alternative. TNA is miles and miles behind and apart from them all the rest are either foreign or indie which only marks will watch. They can f**k stories/wrestlers up and still be guaranteed of their audience continuing to watch.

[DomDom]

agree with a lot of what Sergio says to be fair. WWE wrestling, whether we like it or not is in a lull period, it doesn't compare to to the Attitude Era nor even the Golden Era. Slowly but surely, steps are being taken to get WWE back to where they belong, CM Punk for example, whilst I can't stand him I can see he's shook up the company and brought some much needed excitement.

A lot of the utter w**k from 2002 onwards was crap too, and that wasn't anything close to PG either.

Where the REAL problems lie, excitement wise in WWE, is a lack of proper characters. Even in the main event scene. Randy Orton is a guy who goes nuts sometimes. John Cena is now, basically, a guy. CM Punk is a guy who likes moaning. Mark Henry is a big badass. Alberto Del Rio is the most defined character in the main event scene at the moment, a decent character too, not played very well though.

The lower down the card you go, the more outlandish things start becoming, and even then it's not much. THAT is where a lot of the problem lies.

Another thing is they just throw a lot of shit at a wall and see what sticks these days. It's kinda like TNA in that regard, except the shit doesn't quite stink as bad. They don't give anything a lot of time. If something isn't an instant success, they'll just disregard it and move onto the next shit slinging.

A lot depends on what Triple H does in his new role I suppose, most people are giving Sin Cara the benefit of the doubt here and are sure he'll cut out his mistakes, but it was obvious the fans would not take to him as much when they already had Rey Mysterio.

Are people really giving Sin Cara the benefit of the doubt here? I know I'm not. Several others haven't taken to him at all. And quite rightly so. He should have been sent to FCW. Instead he was launched into WWE and now you have an awkward lucha style wrestler working the lucha style in front of an audience that don't care.

Rey Mysterio is a guy who had already been touring the world getting his style defined and that meant that by the time he got to WCW, he was already looking the part in there, and by the time he got to WWE, he was a star. I think if Sin Cara had the same experience behind him he might be making something more of himself.

I think there's only so much Triple H can do in his new role given the shit throwing tendencies of the people around him.

Why is WWE not as great as it once was? A lack of competition. WWE was so great, it killed off WCW and simply took over ECW. TNA is not on the same level as either of these promotions, but once/IF it is, you can bet your house on it, WWE will be hitting top form.

It's certainly a very important part of it. WWE almost went out of business in 1997 and we seen what happened there.

WWE needed this PG era quite a bit. They needed to ensure this new generation of fans like the Golden Age did back in the day.

[DomDom]

There's some MAJOR excitement about ICW at the moment. Their owner claimed to be making the biggest announcement in Scottish wrestling history next weekend at the show. Obviously given the hyperbole, pinch of salt. Then today he posted the theme song for the ICW YouTube show and said that it's the last episode of that, and that thit'll now be the theme song for "something else" with a wink. Possible TV deal?