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You have never experienced a massive result against the odds in the Scottish Cup so how can you compare? What those fans were trying to do is out into context how great a day, and a result it was for there club. You just didn't appreciate it because it was a junior club not being utterly obsessed with the junior Cup. There's more to football than getting a perfect view, you get better views at your stadium than say Gayfield, Glebe or Station Park but I'd have them miles ahead as stadiums. It isn't a perfect stand due to it being a factor in what is a poor footballing experience all told. I'm positive you were asked to explain what the junior identity is, and how you would lose it by being in the pyramid and you've utterly failed in honesty. There is nothing there that isn't replicated through all levels of Scottish football, you touch on it and "the unique world of junior football" what is it that's unique? I did have a solid chuckle at "see no evidence that it would generate even a glimpse of the passion or commitment I have witnessed over the years in Ayrshire" the fans of the juniors are moaning at potentially having to travel an extra half hour to support there team! Passion and commitment my arse. That's just an empty post totally skirting around the question which you were repeatedly asked. What is the" junior soul"and how on earth would you lose it joining the pyramid, did Kelty lose it when they left the juniors? Do Bonnyrigg, Linlithgow etc lose it when they play in the big Scottish Cup? After all that is senior football against senior teams, surely they would lose there junior soul on these occasions?

Monty had a wee trip to the vet yesterday to have a bad tooth removed, he was out of it for hours

See also PAT Testing.

This has got to be one of the poorest posts on this or any other thread that I've had the misfortune to read. In the face of properly constructed, rational and, indeed, factual information being laid before you and everyone else reading this thread on the reasons why a fair amount of SJFA clubs consider a coherent and sustainable future lies in the EoSFL and the Pyramid you first claim to be working on a pitch that will detail all the benefits of remaining Junior and then, when you're called out on this repeatedly by a variety of posters, you fail to come up with even one worthwhile reason and, instead, resort to infantile retorts and obscene language. As has been said before, no wonder teams are fleeing from this bully boy style nonsense. There will be more doing so in the years ahead too, and in some small way your contributions on P&B this last wee while might just help them to make up their minds on that very course of action.

Nose bleed time. Couple of inspired guesses.

There is a Scottish Cup semi-final between these two in less than two weeks and but for the luck of the draw it could have been a cup final at the end of May. What is appropriate policing in that instance? If these howl-at-the-moon halfwits cannot behave even within the lax standards we allow them, then play the fucking games in front of empty stands until they do behave. Stop acquiescing to them.

In fairness, I think this post is, in 5 lines, a fair reflection of both sides of this debate. From the Junior non movers and naysayers, it seems all about the here and now: The current quality of the first team on the park, today. For the teams moving and those that support the pyramid it seems far more about what they hope the club (all encompassing) will be and could be in the future, by making the move. Where they are more likely to fulfil their ambitions. Take Blackburn as a good example of that. Not a club from the Superleague, but they have worked tirelessly for years to put the infrastructure and process in place to grow their club. They had already started and they are doing well on the park this year, despite being in a lower league. People can poo poo their application based on their current league position all they want, but surely they are in a great position, because of the work they have done behind the scenes and the infrastructure they have put in place to grow and improve quickly in the EoS league? Theres more to this, in my opinion, than simply how good a team is on the park in the here and now, because that can change (and quickly - it does in most leagues on a regular basis, look at Albert's success in the West so far this year, or Ashfield relatively recent rise and fall from bottom to top back to bottom, or Selkirk in the LL sitting fifth from second bottom (I think) the season before). Success/quality of first teams is, generally, cyclical. This seems more about the vision that clubs have for themselves in the future and where they see the best chance of that vision being realised. I think there's more to judging any of these teams than just their current form on the park. Id say this is more about applicant clubs, as an entire package, than applicant first teams in isolation.

The "far bigger and better clubs" have sat on their arses, other clubs have been active - its not the fault of Dalkeith that the likes of the Wee Rose and Boness aren't progressive clubs. Clubs have had years to sort this out but have made a complete pigs ear of it.

The media people are Thistle are normally pretty good and I'm sure no one would disagree with the current setup being a vast improvement on what has went before but f**k me they really have missed the mark gauging the mood of the support by allowing Osman to speak to the press after Tuesday when he's been one of the worst offenders at being a useless c**t since he came back from injury and then coming out with the player of the month vote as if we didn't have a fucking horrendous month and just got horsed by County.

Fair fucks to Dundee and their complete disregard for convention in handing out contracts.

My two waiting(unusually patiently) for me to get up.

Here are updated tables so you can get caught up in the excitement of helicopter day tomorrow.

I think what is going over everyone's head is that the Junior posters on here probably have no objection to being part of a pyramid in principle if done correctly not the dug meat of the current form, What is pissing most of us off is the sudden influx of posters who are seemingly taking great delight at predicting the demise of a grade that has been around for 140 years and being encouraged to do so by certain people

Hysterical ramblings of someone who wants to destroy the grade IMO

Jammy b*****d.

And there you have it. Fling some more insults, cast assertions, divert and obscure and yet again offer nothing that is either constructive or worthwhile. Nothing. I have never vilified anyone, never pretended to be anyone else, merely offered what I would consider reasoned debate in a reasoned and respectful manner only to be shouted down by a bully with no grace and certainly no decency. Others can decide who is sniffing glue here.

You’re trying to get another star on the shirt aren’t you

Why would EK and Colts and BSC being in the LL whilst Junior clubs join at tier 6 be unacceptable to clubs?? In the East, a measure of reality has been applied and clubs are joining at tier 6. There is no stooshie and everyone knows the situation, it's not ideal but there you go. You aren't getting a LL West and LL East anytime soon, no matter how desirable it is, and the SJFA aren't getting parity with the LL. Quicker clubs realise this then they might have a chance of finding consensus on how to proceed.

Morton fans are tremendous entertainment. They all utterly despise each other.

I cannot understand why a reasonable stance like 'we're obviously completely opposed to this option and would campaign against it, but in the event of the people deciding otherwise we'd decisively represent our voters' concerns by securing autonomy and guaranteed minority rights in any new state' cannot be expressed by Foster and her ilk. Instead she'd rather swan off to a destination unknown and leave her precious community to look after themselves! It'd be like Nicola Sturgeon leaving the country after the 2014 referendum result and storming off to Catalonia in a huff; an absolutely laughable view of political leadership that would see a politician emptied here immediately. If the identity issue was removed from the debate tomorrow then the most logical solution to Brexit and the Irish border question is an Irish union with extensive and guaranteed autonomy and minority rights within TFS, Nobody expects Loyalist parties to actively campaign for that, but when the economic superiority of the South and the trade barrier arguments are so firmly lined up behind such an outcome it is ridiculous for Foster to disown her own population for daring to favour jobs and prosperity to being attached to a corpse draped in a Union Jack.

First there were half and half scarves, now the half and half #DunTic supporters bus.

Just telling it how it is. We've got a young, successful manager, who gets mentioned every time a reasonable job comes up. You've got Alan Archibald.

Muffy commandeers a box so he can read Ulysses in peace:

Archie fucked off to Dundee United years ago, which is fine, its a short career, make the most money you can, but he seen the way things were coming apart when Gerry Collins came in, and like a few others, left for greener pastures. It was best for Alan Archibald that he left, but not the club. He then came back and signed a two and a half year deal, with the added promise of a testimonial. The best move for his career at that time. Now its best for Partick Thistle he moves on. Although part of me feels, that it would be a scummy thing to do to sack him here and now, even if theres a multitude of people out there who might give us a shot in the arm for 5-6 games. Even if we are safe, I think the whole thing has reached its peak. Archie has been loyal to us, hes had opportunities, albeit not great, to go to jobs in England and he hasn't, but I think its a bit naive to think he will always value the clubs own interests alongside his own, as evidenced above. Theres a weird pals act at Thistle. Maxi the GM, Gerry Britton running the youth. Archie, Shaggy, Kenny Arthur. That's not a problem if its working, but it all feels far too safe and cosy. We constantly have players who remain at the club for years, despite barely kicking a ball, for whatever reason. Scully, Fraser, Welsh, Dumbuya, Bannigan, Nisbet. There will be mourning whenever Archie eventually does go, such is the atmosphere about the club, its all a bit happy clappy. Where as others throw managers out and move onto the next week, no sentiment.

It makes it more difficult when a handful of the biggest clubs have come out against joining, but in the likes of Blackburn's case what exactly are they meant to do - hang off two or three years until Linlithgow and Bo'ness have eventually come round to the idea and only then apply so as not to upset the natural order of things - is everyone supposed to know their place to that extent?

Honestly don’t think I have heard a more negative person. Surely keep your moaning till the end of the season and get behind your team

That yr tea mate?

Nae offence to the guy but when he comes to the club list at the end, I cannot help but think of the 'Oxford, Cambridge, Hull' line from Blackadder. At least 3 of those have not got much interest at all in going beyond their current boundaries!

You’re a genuinely vile individual. I can understand why everyone appears to despise you tbh.

Any chance we can just give it to this guy? https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-team/andrew-lundie/

Gilbert O'Sullivan - Nothing Rhymed

Small Faces - All Or Nothing

Finally the fun breaks out again after a lean spell [emoji3]

Confirmation Dundee are safe from relegation, NDD is back supporting you.

I haven't gone away you know!!!!!!!! And I'm pretty sure I'm younger than Edmund, judging by his childhood reminiscing Yes, Edmund is doing a great job. A few minor quibbles though ... in the top league, The DA should be in 7th above Dublin Magyar, and German Jag should be above gkneil The tables haven't been copy-and-pasted very neatly (I always got them pixel perfect) ... there's a displeasing blue box round Dee_62's position in the BHL. Oh, and all the teams with no score are 11=, not 11-14.

The Undertones - Forever Paradise

It seems an absolute certainty to me that there will be a customs union arrangement in Ireland. If that's the case, there will need to be a customs union arrangement for rUK. If that's the case, there will need do be freedom of movement because it's a basic tenet of a customs union. Brexit will add up to something close to the square root of f**k all. A small war may be avoided but Barnsley Bob and his tattooed pitbull will be utterly fucking raging - which is fantastic.

Neil Diamond - Forever In Blue Jeans

Swinging Blue Jeans - You're No Good

David Bowie - God Knows I'm Good

I was looking through my Timehop there, when a wee stat from a couple of seasons back popped up. Does everyone remember in 2015/16 when we went from the week before Christmas (against Livi ironically) until May 1st (the final day of the season) without scoring an away goal? Obviously squad rotation and a simple lack of quality/confidence are playing a role in our current run, but for it to happen to two totally different squads under the same manager suggests Stevie's tactics are playing a role too.

I think my response has gone over your head old boy!

I say old boy, you seem rather upset. As has already been mentioned you clearly have not actually read what I said but carry on responding to what you think has been written. In the general hierarchy of Football of course Junior football is meaningless. Do you really think there are thousands of Aberdeen fans who care if Benburb win the title this season or hundreds of Morton fans who would bat an eyelid if Talbot shut down tomorrow? Its non-league football in Scotland, and not even the top echelons of non-league football in Scotland, of course its meaningless beyond those with an interest in it, in exactly the same way as the likes of Rochdale are meaningless to everyone outside of England etc. Its not meaningless to me as my team play in that league but I'm not stupid enough to think that outside of a dwindling number of supporters there is a passionate interest in the level of football that my team play in. There aren't people hunched over their phones around midnight on Saturday night in Malaysia desperately hitting refresh on the West Region website as they need to know how the Bens got on at Thorniewood. If Celtic and Rangers closed down this afternoon there wouldn't be a massive number of Tottenham/PSG/Real Madrid fans caring a single iota as to them its a small club from a backwater league that they have no interest in. And in the same way that when Stonehouse/Gretna/Clydebank/Airdrieonians folded a few years ago I wasn't crying into my Bovril as they weren't my club, if Benburb shut down at the end of the season I would obviously be clearly distressed (for all of a couple of minutes, because at the end of the day its just a sport and no one dies) by that but I wouldn't expect every other fan of Scottish football clubs to give it more than a passing glance or even know about it. I've been to 32 games this season, that's games of football not Junior games, not senior games just games of Football. The grade is irrelevant to me, I watch my team and would support them wherever they play. That's a concept you seem to be having difficulty understanding but carry on insulting me as its the only recourse you have to your complete and utter lack of a cohesive case as to why Junior football is different. And by the way, your acolytes and green/red dot obsession is painfully desperate posting.

Yeah, Camelon with 12 consecutive years in the Superleague are clearly going to dilute the quality!

Al Stewart - The Last Day Of June 1934

M. Dore actually did visit Scotland and this is one of his Landscape in Scotland.

Sheltering from the sleet today, in the 'DFC puss hoose'.

You forgot about the time ten years ago when they tried to turn themselves into a Rangers tribute act, bringing in puffing 'Rangers legends' to play in Clyde jerseys against Rangers' first team. https://www.clydefc.co.uk/match/report/642/ An absolutely vile institution then. Luckily they were punished with relegation at the end of that very campaign, followed immediately by another relegation to the fourth tier and permanent oblivion. While their big team was also punished with liquidation and death.

My take on it is this; I have a lot of respect for the juniors and normally make it along to a junior game a few times a season, be it in Aberdeen, Dundee or when visiting the central belt. I have long thought the distinction between the seniors and juniors was an early twentieth century anachronism and needed ending. Of course the basis for such an understanding- administrators from the SFA and SJFA working together sincerely and honestly and to the benefit of all clubs involved- has been more difficult than riding a unicycle through setting concrete. People in Scotland are in the main conservative with a small c and really don't like change, particularly changes as profound as these. It's easier just to say no and not actually think the issues through. Historically there has been fault on both sides. The SFA has always struggled with the concept of a pyramid and felt obliged to introduce it in a half arsed manner thirty years too late. The LL does have some ridiculous teams (glorified boys clubs and football academies with no fans and no ground) in it, even if they achieved their place within the rules of the time, and the league is probably lumbered with them now. However, space was created for these teams to enter at that level owing to the utter intransigence of many at junior level. Some of the SJFA administrators seem to have got lost in a windowless corridor just after the end of the war, and never found a way out. I'm afraid time has finally caught up with the juniors and the gradual improvement in the LL and the pyramid mean that the grade will wither away in the next ten or so years. This is Scottish football we're talking about, so change will be chaotic, messy, fumblingly incompetent and driven by narrow short-term self-interest. Longer term development in a positive way will happen but in spite of the conditions that shaped the changes, not because of them. But I am really looking forward to the establishment of a new WoSFL whenever it happens and under whatever auspices. Teams such as Pollok should have been in the senior set up long ago, frankly. I would have no problem in the whole junior shebang settling in at level 6 in the West (west super league at present) and all the leagues below that. The East region is very tricky and appears to be heading toward a staged collapse- strange that, the East juniors are facing the kind of bleakness that the EoS itself seemed to be facing a few years ago when the LL was founded. Probably there will be two divisions next season in that league. The real problem is not the west or the east, but quite the opposite; the north and south. In the North, the Highland League simply does not seem much interested in the pyramid, and pays lip service to it. Cove winning the promotion play off at the end of the season may actually galvanise one or two other teams up there, if they make a success of it. Whenever Regan is replaced, the new chief executive needs to get this sorted as an early priority- the Highland League have to accept the pyramid sincerely, or a new North Premier League can be created populated with clubs (including the likes of Banks O' Dee) who actually have an interest in reaching the highest level they can. From twitter comments there also seems much staunch opposition to the pyramid from Tayside clubs so it's as hard a sell there as it is in Ayrshire. The South clubs appear, through lack of money, facilities or fears of heavy travelling bills, not to want to progress out of that league, with the exception of Threave. A decision has to be made about the placing and long term future of the south league. If clubs there, for good financial reasons, want to stay within the D&G region and not really engage with the pyramid then fine, but I am not sure that means they should stay as they are at Tier 6. How to solve that? Lots of problems and it's easy to see how many past administrators have taken one look and said "this can be a problem for the next guy, it's too much hassle to deal with". However courage can be taken from the fact that it took the English 25 years to sort out querulous semi-independent non leagues into a national league structure, with the partial exception of the Northern League. Scotland is just at the very beginning of that process. This has been the most interesting thread on here for a long time. It takes a lot to get through dozens of pages of new posts every day!

Don't say I'm not good to you.