[HTG]

There are plenty responses to baikie on the junior forum.

[Sergeant Wilson]

HTG, on 17 September 2010 - 15:55, said:

There are plenty responses to baikie on the junior forum.

I was being a wee bit sarcastic as there was another thread already running about it.

[HTG]

Sergeant Wilson, on 17 September 2010 - 17:06, said:

I was being a wee bit sarcastic as there was another thread already running about it.

Aye, you done me!

[Sergeant Wilson]

HTG, on 17 September 2010 - 17:24, said:

Aye, you done me!

It was directed at the poster before....couldn't resist the cheap shot.

[HTG]

Sergeant Wilson, on 17 September 2010 - 18:49, said:

It was directed at the poster before....couldn't resist the cheap shot.

Fair enough ... you done me twice!!

[David W]

I'm totally against this.

[Pirate Mo]

Hi Guys,

This is my first day of posting on "Pie and Bovril", so I'm getting through the Threads! This is an old chestnut, but why re-invent the wheel???

The English FA have done it for years, and it sems to work, with distance being nop object, with the way that the whole Pyramid System is set up!

Go to the BBC Football website, and you will find a well documented explanation of how their Pyramid System works, and it would simply be a case of following that format for Scotland, and slotting in the tems who want to get to higher levels than where they are now.

[The Old Northerner]

Pirate Mo, on 08 December 2010 - 12:13, said:

Hi Guys,

This is my first day of posting on "Pie and Bovril", so I'm getting through the Threads! This is an old chestnut, but why re-invent the wheel???

The English FA have done it for years, and it sems to work, with distance being nop object, with the way that the whole Pyramid System is set up!

Go to the BBC Football website, and you will find a well documented explanation of how their Pyramid System works, and it would simply be a case of following that format for Scotland, and slotting in the tems who want to get to higher levels than where they are now.

The hardest question (IMHO) to answer would be the infrastructure one - and that is dependent on the number of participating clubs. With so many clubs around down South, the pyramid is very deep, and this depth allows for relatively easy facility upgrades - certainly at the lower levels. In Scotland the number of clubs is much less, but the requirements of a path 'from public park to Hamden' will still need to be defined. Fewer clubs around will mean fewer levels of the pyramid and the corresponding leap from tier to tier may be much harder.

[Pirate Mo]

"TON"'

Any Pyramid System can only operate with teams who want to be part of it, and who have ambitions of moving up through "higher" levels, to try and eventualy gain SFL status. There will always be "other" levels of football for those who just want to compete, and who will never be interested in taking part in a Pyramid System, just as there still are in England.

Even the teams who would join a Pyramid Sysyem, have an option, if they did qualify for Promotion, and they were not financially ready for it, then they have a right to giveup the Promotion, and the teams in the league above would remain status quo, just as happened in the SPL/SFL Division 1, a few seasons ago, but which was down to ground criteria.

It can work, if those who take part want it to work, and for those who keep throwing down hurdles to jump, then forget it, as you wouldn't want to get into something that you wouldn't fully embrace! If a team wants to play Pub Football, then let them, but for those who want to move on to new challenges, then a Pyramid System would definately be for them!

[The Old Northerner]

Pirate Mo, on 08 December 2010 - 14:23, said:

"TON"'

Any Pyramid System can only operate with teams who want to be part of it, and who have ambitions of moving up through "higher" levels, to try and eventualy gain SFL status. There will always be "other" levels of football for those who just want to compete, and who will never be interested in taking part in a Pyramid System, just as there still are in England.

Even the teams who would join a Pyramid Sysyem, have an option, if they did qualify for Promotion, and they were not financially ready for it, then they have a right to giveup the Promotion, and the teams in the league above would remain status quo, just as happened in the SPL/SFL Division 1, a few seasons ago, but which was down to ground criteria.

It can work, if those who take part want it to work, and for those who keep throwing down hurdles to jump, then forget it, as you wouldn't want to get into something that you wouldn't fully embrace! If a team wants to play Pub Football, then let them, but for those who want to move on to new challenges, then a Pyramid System would definately be for them!

My point is that (comparing with England) fewer clubs = fewer levels = larger leaps between tiers. As far as I am aware, nearly all the discussion has centered on the basic geography and, to a certain extent, how far down a pyramid you go before regionalisation kicks in. The number of levels needed and where the big jumps are haven't even elicited a mention (perhaps that isn't surprising). Now I'm in favour of integration and a pyramid system - but I also recognise the possibility that such a system may not allow the fluidity we would want. If, at any point, the cost in getting from Tier X to Tier X-1 is generally prohibitive, then, even with the best will in the world, it may not be practical to continue. Having said that, there is preparatory work that could be done which would be useful in the long term - even if a fully fledged pyramid did not come to pass.

[Pirate Mo]

Agreed !!!

[mick90]

These ideas are just not credible.... you cannot promote from a system to which clubs cannot be relegated.... and you have ignored the fact that SPL have proposed placing `reserves` in the system. SPL favour regionalisation of lower SFL, likely to be 24 clubs plus higher reserves, with maybe a couple of opportunities for `promotion`. Therefore, to have a pyramid, SFL and SJFA must be removed from the map of Scottish football... perhaps not the solution `lok` is looking for.

At the pyramid campaign, we see a couple of alternatives... certainly little can be gained by keeping certain leagues as they are. There is a case for a single division SPL 3, under which we could have three major regional superleagues to solve the problem of none the lower leagues being strong enough to support relegated SFL clubs... as SFA and SFL implied with their `norh and south feeder` proposals.

Top four SPL reserves can go in SPL 3, leaving 16 SFL clubs to be placed in three regions, plus 22 other `reserves`, plus 16 `promoted clubs from

HFL (3) - EoSL (3) - SoSL (1) - North JFA (2) - East JFA (3) - West JFA (4) ..... CURRENTLY

SPL 1 SPL 2 SPL 3
Celtic Aberdeen Stirling Albion
Rangers Hamilton Dundee
Hearts Dunfermline Celtic Reserves
Kilmarnock Raith Rovers Rangers Reserves
Inverness Falkirk Hearts Reserves
Motherwell Q of South Kilmarnock Reserves
Dundee Un Partick Thistle Livingston
St Johnstone Cowdenbeath Brechin City
Hibs Ross County Alloa Athletic
St Mirren Morton Ayr United

On current positions Superleague teams would be -
League - Forfar, Airdrie, E Fife, Peterhead, Stens, Dumbarton, Stranraer, Albion, Elgin, Arbroath, Berwick, Annan, Montrose, Q Park, E Stirs, Clyde
HFL - Buckie, Turriff, Inverurie EoSL - Spartans, Stirling Univ, Edin Univ SoSL - Dalbeattie,
NRSJFA - Banks o`Dee, Hermes ERSJFA - Linlithgow, Bonnyrigg, Forfar WE WRSJFA - Pollok, Meadow, Arthurlie, Beith


REGIONAL SUPERLEAGUES

WEST EAST NORTH
Motherwell Res Hibs Res Inverness Res
St Mirren Res Dunfermline Res Dundee Un Res
Hamilton Res Raith Rov Res St Johnstone Res
Q of South Res Falkirk Res Aberdeen Res
Partick Res Cowdenbeath Res Ross Co Res
Morton Res Stirling Alb Res Dundee Res
Ayr Un Res Livingston Res Brechin Res
Pollok Alloa Res Forfar Ath
Meadow E Stirlingshire Forfar WE
Arthurlie Berwick Rngs Peterhead
Beith E Fife Elgin City
Stranraer Spartans Arbroath
Dumbarton Stirling Univ Montrose
Albion Rovs Edin Univ Buckie Thistle
Annan Ath Linlithgow Turriff United
Dalbeattie Bonnyrigg Inverurie LW
Q Park Stenhousemuir Banks o`Dee
Clyde Airdrie Un Hermes

Only these top 84 teams would enter Scottish Cup (inc reserves) - rd 1 - 30 ties .. top 24 byes. rd 2 - 22 ties (top 10 bye) - rd 3 - 16 ties
For CIS (new sponsor), the SPL 1-2 of 20 is perfect, with 4 UEFA byes.... lower clubs (SPL3 and Superleague) get ALBA Cup.

If lower SFL clubs do not wish to place a reserve side in the system, that place would be taken by a `support` division club in that region, in order,
North .... HFL one, then NRSJFA one .... East.... ERSJFA two, EoSL one........ West ..... WRSJFA four, SoSL one.

Leagues below these amalgamated so that TWO area divisions support each Superleague. These would probably be -

S. WEST and W.CENTRAL, SOUTH EAST and E.CENTRAL, N. EAST and NORTH ( 96 teams, new associate member status, 1 vote per division)

Three DISTRICT divisions would support each two area divisions (144 teams - new associate member status - 1 vote per division)

Two local areas per District divisions (minimum 288 teams - new amateur status - non-voting - teams must be affilliated to `member` club)

This country has the poorest clubs in Europe and the latter rule would make sure they become the strongest (on av). We are not `supporting` this set up.... merely outlining its strengths, which, in particular, include the fact that virtually all teams `fit` where thay are supposed to be in a very well balanced arrangement. But, there must be others out there...

[mick90]

apologies.... the spacing did not transfer to the previous post in lists of three SPL divisions and three superleagues.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Yay!
The season for posting one's visions has arrived!
1 - 10/12 (two down)
2 - 12/14 (two down)
That's the professional league, only they play in the LC.
3 - 18 (three/four down)
4 - 16x2 (three down from each)
That's the next level, these guys play in the Challange cup. Those four tiers are eligible for the Scottish Cup
5 - 3x14 - East, West, North Superlleagues (two up from each, three down)
6 - 6x14 - 1st Divisions, two each feeding to each SL (wo up from each, three down)
7 - 4/6x12/14 - 2nd Divisions, two/three each feeding the East and West 1st divisions
These three tiers (two in the North) are the Juniors, play in the Junior Cup

Borys

This post has been edited by Borys: 31 December 2010 - 17:37

[ecto]

I can see nothing wrong in dropping the hook in the water and see if you get a nibble,set a three month window,if anything bites have a look,if not no harm done.

[HTG]

I'm not going to intrude on the grief of the Berwick guys at this point in time but there are a number of comments from them about getting hammered by a non-league team in the cup.

Question is, how do you know that the non-league teams are worse than the league teams when there is no system upon which to judge the merits of either?

Whatever the process, there has to be an option made available to progressive non-league teams to make their way through the Scottish football structure. And there has to be an option to ensure that those who are not good enough to stay in the league drop to the relevant level.

The stuff about facilities and geography is just getting in the way. Get a regional structure set up, apply some basic criteria and get on with it. If clubs don't aspire then fair enough but not to open the game up to clubs with a set up like Deveronvale is unacceptable.

[CityDave]

HTG, on 23 October 2011 - 14:12, said:

I'm not going to intrude on the grief of the Berwick guys at this point in time but there are a number of comments from them about getting hammered by a non-league team in the cup.

Question is, how do you know that the non-league teams are worse than the league teams when there is no system upon which to judge the merits of either?

Whatever the process, there has to be an option made available to progressive non-league teams to make their way through the Scottish football structure. And there has to be an option to ensure that those who are not good enough to stay in the league drop to the relevant level.

The stuff about facilities and geography is just getting in the way. Get a regional structure set up, apply some basic criteria and get on with it. If clubs don't aspire then fair enough but not to open the game up to clubs with a set up like Deveronvale is unacceptable.

Taking Deveronvale on their own, I don't remember them ever applying to join the SFL. Maybe they're one of those clubs quite happy with which league they play in, same goes for Buckie Thistle.

[HTG]

CityDave, on 23 October 2011 - 14:37, said:

Taking Deveronvale on their own, I don't remember them ever applying to join the SFL. Maybe they're one of those clubs quite happy with which league they play in, same goes for Buckie Thistle.

The point is, why ... why ... why should there be a need to apply?

What would football in Scotland look like if teams had to apply for a place in the next league up? If Ross County won their league but Queen of the South's application for the SPL was better written so they got into the SPL instead? Applying is bollocks. Get a system set up that makes it compulsory to decline the place if you don't fancy it. Then you'll see some movement among the lower league teams in terms of developing facilities and players.

[CityDave]

HTG, on 23 October 2011 - 15:06, said:

The point is, why ... why ... why should there be a need to apply?

What would football in Scotland look like if teams had to apply for a place in the next league up? If Ross County won their league but Queen of the South's application for the SPL was better written so they got into the SPL instead? Applying is bollocks. Get a system set up that makes it compulsory to decline the place if you don't fancy it. Then you'll see some movement among the lower league teams in terms of developing facilities and players.

Don't teams still have to apply for SPL membership?.

I would guess new teams in joining the SFL system via promotion would still have to apply so the League can assess that that club meets criteria, for some it will just be a formality for others it would mean some improvements, maybe allowed up but given a set time to bring themselves up to standard, demoted back down if they don't.

This post has been edited by CityDave: 23 October 2011 - 15:41

[fishtrunkAKA]

http://www.spartansf...-eventual- week/


Interesting times ahead?

[mrman2011]

Please make this happen, with or without the juniors

[HTG]

http://news.bbc.co.u...nd/16278305. stm

Just posted this on the junior forum - it seems regurgitated but it won't go any further if the 42 don't vote for it.

[Whitswit]

Highland league have agreed to this. Enough clubs in the lowland to have a mirrored league.

Leagues will be 16 or 18.

Big push from SFA to make it happen.

Should start 2014/15 likely to be the first season it happens I believe.

[HibeeJibee]

Whitswit, on 27 March 2012 - 18:43, said:

Highland league have agreed to this. Enough clubs in the lowland to have a mirrored league.

Leagues will be 16 or 18.

Big push from SFA to make it happen.

Should start 2014/15 likely to be the first season it happens I believe.

I don't wish to doubt all this, but you're saying... particularly against the background of only 1 or 2 Juniors apparently being interested... that 16 or 18 Lowland clubs are going to get licensed in 2 years?

[Whitswit]

HibeeJibee, on 27 March 2012 - 19:01, said:

.. that 16 or 18 Lowland clubs are going to get licensed in 2 years?

Apparently this is being worked towards. Not saying for sure it will happen. The basic level of licensing though is not beyond do-able and certainly the 2 Junior names i've heard as being interested are both very close to being there.

They are aiming for this certainly and I guess that is at least some progress.