[bewlay]

the problem would be how to structure the promotion into the league.Is there a place for a league along the likes of the conference in England?,

[Jimmy MCcabe]

This has been covered to death, until there is a viable tier below the current SFL Leagues the answer has to be no.
Are there enough teams interested in stepping up? At the moment probably not. Sad as it is for the unsuccessful candidates in yesterdays election vote, there was only 5 teams in it.
A lot of work would have to be done organising such a structure both from a financial point and of course to ascertain if enough teams with the infrastructure either in place or in planning want to join. Its all right saying we should have a pyramid system but if clubs don't want to join what can you do?

[djn]

Jimmy MCcabe, on Jul 4 2008, 08:15, said:

This has been covered to death, until there is a viable tier below the current SFL Leagues the answer has to be no.
Are there enough teams interested in stepping up? At the moment probably not. Sad as it is for the unsuccessful candidates in yesterdays election vote, there was only 5 teams in it.
A lot of work would have to be done organising such a structure both from a financial point and of course to ascertain if enough teams with the infrastructure either in place or in planning want to join. Its all right saying we should have a pyramid system but if clubs don't want to join what can you do?

Very true - we should probably have this pinned as a topic, it keeps on coming round (and we get the same answers every time).

If the likes of Pollock, Linlithgow etc don't want to apply to join the League (in the current cirucmstances), then what can we do? Fair enough, they have their reasons, but it's not like there's dozens waiting to replace the bottom club...

[bendan]

But who is going to invest the necessary money to get ready for league entry before a system of promotion is put in place? Why not make a place available and if the qualifying candidate (maybe from an EoS and Highland league play off) isn't interested or doesn't meet specified criteria, the bottom club stays in the league. It's hugely ironic to hear the arguments against automatic relegation of the same SFL clubs that complain about the self preservation of the SPL (which relegates one out of twelve of its members each year).

[Clyde01]

There could be a sort of nationwide conference below the 3rd that contains teams with SFL ambitions.
Edinburgh City, Preston, Spartans, Cove all clearly want in. So do others like Gala, probably other Highland league teams.
Not sure how viable this would be though, clearly Cove against Gala would be more expensive for the clubs to fulfill than the current regionalised Highland league etc.
Relegation could happen from this conference only if other teams want in for a chance to make the SFL so nobody is forced to join up.

[The Old Northerner]

Quote

There could be a sort of nationwide conference below the 3rd that contains teams with SFL ambitions.

Another nationwide division isn't really a starter, I don't think. Regionalisation would have to begin at this point (some would argue that it should start at Div2/3 - that ain't going to happen any time soon)

[Clyde01]

Another possibility would be a playoff similar to those between SFL leagues at present.
The playoff could contain bottom of Div 3, winner of highland league, winner of EOS league, winner of SOS league, Maybe junior league winners.

Again only teams interested in joining SFL could take part, but they must have won their league to qualify, no passing it to 2nd place or whatever. If nobody wants to enter SFL team survives by default.

The only problem I can see with this is that flexibility would be needed to allow say East Stirling to drop out and be replaced by Cove. That would inbalance numbers in the regionalised leagues but surely is a fairly workable solution.

[sons for spl]

Right you lot get back to your own boards, the excitement is over Annan are the new club. Alll these threads are taking over the board and stopping the usual Dumbarton spam.

[HibeeJibee]

What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Few non-leaguers will invest in facilities, or build their aspirations, when the only route into the SFL is irregular ballot - and when Third Division football is regarded by many as poor-quality compared to top-level local football. The SFL don't want to commit to a pyramid until enough clubs have viable facilities, and until a system has been put in place before promotion into Third Division is introduced. Someone has to make the first move...

[Boghead ranter]

bendan, on Jul 4 2008, 10:04, said:

It's hugely ironic to hear the arguments against automatic relegation of the same SFL clubs that complain about the self preservation of the SPL (which relegates one out of twelve of its members each year).

Provided the team that wins the 1s division fits in with their clique, that is.......

[rockson]

Boghead ranter, on Jul 4 2008, 19:55, said:

Provided the team that wins the 1s division fits in with their clique, that is.......

And provided they don't suspend relegation so that the clique team can stay up....
It has happened at least once.

[rockson]

Clyde01, on Jul 4 2008, 11:01, said:

The only problem I can see with this is that flexibility would be needed to allow say East Stirling to drop out and be replaced by Cove. That would inbalance numbers in the regionalised leagues but surely is a fairly workable solution.

And where would East Stirling or Albion Rovers or Dumbarton or Forfar etc. etc play if they dropped out?
The Highland League isn't a reasonable option for most SFL clubs and nor are the EoS and the SoS.

[Jimmy MCcabe]

Correct which is where the St Mirren fans argument falls down, he says that we are like the SPL and self preservation is the order of the day but in reality most League teams would not be against promotion relegation to the league if there were somewhere viable below.
For example it hardly makes sense if Stranraer were to be in that position if they had to play in the SOS league when our reserve team already play in it, likewise central belt teams hardly fit in any of the current boxes.
My fear for such proposals would be you would just kill off a few teams and replace them with similar clubs who had a league that was financially and geographically handy for them.

[sons for spl]

The Wicker Man, on Jul 4 2008, 22:17, said:

I love your picter of Saul Hudson. Respect.

Attached File(s)

•  my_diagrram.jpg (49.43K)
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[djn]

HibeeJibee, on Jul 4 2008, 13:42, said:

Few non-leaguers will invest in facilities, or build their aspirations, when the only route into the SFL is irregular ballot -

...but how come non-league clubs are allowed to carry on with such facilities, when League clubs are at the mercy of Health and Safety legislation - how come you can get hundreds at a non league game without worrying about the petty rules that plague League teams.

For example, the side of Cliftonhill that was closed for *years* would be allowed for crowds of that size in non league grounds. Why does one rule apply to League clubs, and not to the others?

[Broccoli Dog]

i think the SFL should relegate all 10 clubs in the 3rd division

[djn]

Mango Reinhardt, on Jul 4 2008, 22:53, said:

i think the SFL should relegate all 10 clubs in the 3rd division

Just because we don't all have railway stations named after us...

[Stewie Griffin]

djn, on Jul 4 2008, 22:46, said:

...but how come non-league clubs are allowed to carry on with such facilities, when League clubs are at the mercy of Health and Safety legislation - how come you can get hundreds at a non league game without worrying about the petty rules that plague League teams.

For example, the side of Cliftonhill that was closed for *years* would be allowed for crowds of that size in non league grounds. Why does one rule apply to League clubs, and not to the others?

You could apply the same to other sports. Rugby doesn't get great crowds at league level but come Melrose Sevens they are allowed thousands into a tiny ground with only grass banks and a small stand, yet if we get a decent cup tie we are only allowed 4,000 in when clearly you could safely get another 2,000 in and 25 years ago it was another 8,000.

[djn]

Stewie Griffin, on Jul 5 2008, 00:22, said:

You could apply the same to other sports. Rugby doesn't get great crowds at league level but come Melrose Sevens they are allowed thousands into a tiny ground with only grass banks and a small stand, yet if we get a decent cup tie we are only allowed 4,000 in when clearly you could safely get another 2,000 in and 25 years ago it was another 8,000.

It does my head in. We were allowed 4,000 for the Falkirk game, but the Police (etc) costs were prohibative, so we only opened up for a couple of thousand.

I fully accept that Shielfield could do with more than just a lick of paint, but surely the H&S rules should apply to all grounds that have a crowd of the same size?

[cmontheloknow]

In terms of the main question, this has been discussed many, many times in recent months. Solutions put forward include:

1. A national non-league 'conference' division. The Highland League membership were on the whole uninterested in the SFL so I cannot fathom why a non-league version would be more appealing. There'd be even less money available to cover costs.

2. Two regional feeders based upon the three current Senior leagues. Highland League and Lowland League - Spartans' idea. It's highly flawed though - of the current SFL membership, only Elgin, Ross County and Peterhead are within the Highland area, while from the Lowlands, you have Berwick, Annan, QOS and Stranraer. Stirling Uni have just joined the East of Scotland League so I suppose its catchment area has widened slightly to take in the Falkirk area clubs. The three Senior non-leagues cover 1.5 million people and prior to Stirling Uni coming in the areas covered were:



If a club from greater Glasgow was to be relegated, where would they go and play?

Also, is a Lowland League practical for its current membership? Threave Rovers played in the East of Scotland League for 5 years but found costs prohibitive. Would any South sides be interested in the travel?

3. The creation of a Senior West of Scotland League by inviting Junior members to 'hop the fence'.

4. Integration of Junior and Senior football to create the following football map largely based upon the three existing Junior regions.



The current Junior coverage (4.5 million people) is:



The divisional set-up would be:



In my opinion, a fully fledged pyramid is an impossibility without fixing the void in the West. There is no Senior non-league for huge areas of the country, areas that include some of the most populated.

Ground standards are pretty low everywhere, but a number of East and South senior sides have facilities unacceptable even to the SJFA. These teams should not be at the level below the SFL.

Feel free to browse http://nonleaguescotland.co.uk

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 05 July 2008 - 08:50

[tartantranmere64]

Respect mate! Have you got a PhD for this? bring it on, as they say these days....