[KingfaetheSooth]

Ultra Sud, on Jun 16 2008, 14:07, said:

Still on to the real subject of this topic - lets just laugh at gretna and their fall from grace, apart from the 45 regulars from unibond days. Still think they will struggle to raise the support to get up a team for next season - the appointment of a manager is a strange one, who did appoint him? Whats he been promised in the way of even a basic club infrastructure? I can see a split amongst fan groups even now over this.

I think they might have more support than than you realise. They had 150 or so at a quickly arranged mid-week meeting in Gretna. We're not talking massive numbers mind! Perhaps 150-200 for home games is realistic for Gretna in the SOS league. Be interesting to know what they have budgeted for. I think I saw somewhere that they are looking at an overall budget of £15K per season...that sounds like not a lot of money to me even for the SOS league.

Keeping the fans onboard is key. The biggest problem I see is that the main movers and shakers in their supporters society (Anton Hodge & Craig Williamson) are fairly 'Johnny come lately' Gretna fans from South of the border and might be seen as outsiders. I might be off the mark but a few of the "local" Gretna fans on the Gretna Mad board seemed to be objecting to the way things were being done and sorted, particularly with Stuart Rome's appointment. I also don't know where the likes of Malcolm Dunn and Maurice Watson fit into this whole thing. They might well be pulling strings somewhere in the background. Of course they were both creditors of the old Gretna FC and I think one of them (Dunn) was responsible for printing the Gretna programme. Then you've got the question of whether the McGregor family are still involved...And the fact that the Gretna Supporters Society seemed to back football agents Davies with his pie in the sky takeover bid. They need to recover their credibility quickly.

All that said, I think the move to appoint a manager quickly is the right one. With a decent manager, a lot falls into place quckly. It was the right decision to appoint quickly i reckon. They've got a long way to go to get the venture up and running though IMO.

Duncan Freemason, on Jun 16 2008, 16:37, said:

The tax man no longer gets "preferred creditor" status, so I think he's in the queue with the rest.
Interesting, because there was the announcement that Workington's man had left to take up the Gretna post, then there was they guy who seems to be running the show (Anton) saying the manager would pick the players but he'd make sure he would get a players credentials, then the next minute he's saying to a disgruntled fan that details on a decision will be made soon, with a clear implication that those who some are saying are making the decisions didn't do so. But I don't think that is right. There is undoubtedly been wee moves behind the scenes by a select few who clearly want to be the movers and shakers but are not to keen on being seen as that for now. Thing is, folk ain't daft, and a few are already putting two and two together. If they don't make come out with the reality soon with zero spin, then they just might be hanging themselves out to dry. Their personal desire to be involved might just make sure that everyone else tells them to get on with it and walks away.

I think Anton is a bit out of his depth tbh. He's on a quick learning curve for sure! That said, I think he's just the PR/secretary support and someone else is pulling strings behind the scenes.

Hugo Biano, on Jun 16 2008, 23:09, said:

Gretna have made an enquiry about playing in the S.O.S league but they're no where near getting in as they don't have any confirmed playing facilities and also they are no longer members of the S.F.A so that means no Scottish Cup place. As for the council buying Raydale then surely its a non starter. DG ONE at dumfries runs at a predicted £225K a year so i think the funds will be getting distributed there next year.

Also, the Crichton are definatley playing in round 2 regardless of their status and will be allowed to switch the game if requested.

Like it or not, a reformed Gretna playing at a shared ground even in front of 100 paying punters will give the SOS league some decent exposure. I have a feeling that a ground-share (Gretna greyhound stadium or Mids pitch in Lockerbie?) has already been signed and sealed.

I do agree that Raydale is a non-starter for a reformed Gretna of the local Council. That will have houses/hotel on it within 3/4 years I reckon.

[Duncan Freemason]

KingfaetheSooth, on Jun 16 2008, 23:42, said:

I think they might have more support than than you realise. They had 150 or so at a quickly arranged mid-week meeting in Gretna. We're not talking massive numbers mind! Perhaps 150-200 for home games is realistic for Gretna in the SOS league. Be interesting to know what they have budgeted for. I think I saw somewhere that they are looking at an overall budget of £15K per season...that sounds like not a lot of money to me even for the SOS league.

Keeping the fans onboard is key. The biggest problem I see is that the main movers and shakers in their supporters society (Anton Hodge & Craig Williamson) are fairly 'Johnny come lately' Gretna fans from South of the border and might be seen as outsiders. I might be off the mark but a few of the "local" Gretna fans on the Gretna Mad board seemed to be objecting to the way things were being done and sorted, particularly with Stuart Rome's appointment. I also don't know where the likes of Malcolm Dunn and Maurice Watson fit into this whole thing. They might well be pulling strings somewhere in the background. Of course they were both creditors of the old Gretna FC and I think one of them (Dunn) was responsible for printing the Gretna programme. Then you've got the question of whether the McGregor family are still involved...And the fact that the Gretna Supporters Society seemed to back football agents Davies with his pie in the sky takeover bid. They need to recover their credibility quickly.

All that said, I think the move to appoint a manager quickly is the right one. With a decent manager, a lot falls into place quckly. It was the right decision to appoint quickly i reckon. They've got a long way to go to get the venture up and running though IMO.



I think Anton is a bit out of his depth tbh. He's on a quick learning curve for sure! That said, I think he's just the PR/secretary support and someone else is pulling strings behind the scenes.




Like it or not, a reformed Gretna playing at a shared ground even in front of 100 paying punters will give the SOS league some decent exposure. I have a feeling that a ground-share (Gretna greyhound stadium or Mids pitch in Lockerbie?) has already been signed and sealed.

I do agree that Raydale is a non-starter for a reformed Gretna of the local Council. That will have houses/hotel on it within 3/4 years I reckon.

You make lots of good points. Certainly, for some who are now running with the ball, an outcome where they can be big fish in a tiny pond will be good enough. There will be a select few who will follow a new club regardless of the league they are playing in, but very few who will go along to away games. There is a general view with some (most), that gretna is still a big name. Of course, it's not. But the importnat thing for them is that they need to be seen as important regardless of the league, and that's why the SoS league is ideal both in terms of quality and scale. They can go there and be a "big club" and close out the rest of the world that knows the bigger truth, and knew it all along. Good luck to them.
I guess appointing the new manager isn't a bad thing. What IS bad, is that the "movers and shakers" have been pretty economical with the truth up to now. If you've appointed him, and are asked if you've appointed him, then you have to say "no comment", "yes" or "no". You don't try to pull the wool over folks eyes by alluding to "it couldn't happen like you say because x, or y, or z wasn't around on that date". Especially when a reply can come along saying "it wasn't done then, it was done before then". You either give people the truth, or give a genuine reason why nothing can be said til a specific time. When you become evasive, and dismissive or try to undermine what others are saying with statements which are not actually completely true, then as an individual, you are toast. There's one or two who are close to being toast right now. And you're right. So far, it's the puppets who are doing the talking. The puppetmaster(s) aren't breaking cover until there's something completely positive to say.
These guys were completely behind Paul Davies (the agent who isn't an agent). I guess they really did have to grasp at any straw that came along, regardless of how bogus it was.

This post has been edited by Duncan Freemason: 17 June 2008 - 07:23

[KingfaetheSooth]

Duncan Freemason, on Jun 17 2008, 08:20, said:

You make lots of good points. Certainly, for some who are now running with the ball, an outcome where they can be big fish in a tiny pond will be good enough. There will be a select few who will follow a new club regardless of the league they are playing in, but very few who will go along to away games. There is a general view with some (most), that gretna is still a big name. Of course, it's not. But the importnat thing for them is that they need to be seen as important regardless of the league, and that's why the SoS league is ideal both in terms of quality and scale. They can go there and be a "big club" and close out the rest of the world that knows the bigger truth, and knew it all along. Good luck to them.
I guess appointing the new manager isn't a bad thing. What IS bad, is that the "movers and shakers" have been pretty economical with the truth up to now. If you've appointed him, and are asked if you've appointed him, then you have to say "no comment", "yes" or "no". You don't try to pull the wool over folks eyes by alluding to "it couldn't happen like you say because x, or y, or z wasn't around on that date". Especially when a reply can come along saying "it wasn't done then, it was done before then". You either give people the truth, or give a genuine reason why nothing can be said til a specific time. When you become evasive, and dismissive or try to undermine what others are saying with statements which are not actually completely true, then as an individual, you are toast. There's one or two who are close to being toast right now. And you're right. So far, it's the puppets who are doing the talking. The puppetmaster(s) aren't breaking cover until there's something completely positive to say.
These guys were completely behind Paul Davies (the agent who isn't an agent). I guess they really did have to grasp at any straw that came along, regardless of how bogus it was.

All good stuff. This really is year zero for Gretna and their fans. Their problem is that they have to move away from the old guard...Mileson/McGreggor/Alexander et al...but many of their fans were only attracted by the glory that these people brought. That is why Alexander is being mentioned IMO - they remember the glory without recalling his faults and limitations. There will be alot of their fans that fall by the wayside over the coming months/years. Gretna certainly are not a big name now...that will take some getting used to by many of their fans. They need good leadership - it remains to be seen if that appears.

There are many parallels with what we had to do at AFC Wimbledon...though we did it with a much bigger fanbase, better people in charge (no direspect to those at Gretna) and a pyramid to climb. We also got our own football ground PDQ - which was crucial to us progressing.

[Duncan Freemason]

KingfaetheSooth, on Jun 17 2008, 13:08, said:

All good stuff. This really is year zero for Gretna and their fans. Their problem is that they have to move away from the old guard...Mileson/McGreggor/Alexander et al...but many of their fans were only attracted by the glory that these people brought. That is why Alexander is being mentioned IMO - they remember the glory without recalling his faults and limitations. There will be alot of their fans that fall by the wayside over the coming months/years. Gretna certainly are not a big name now...that will take some getting used to by many of their fans. They need good leadership - it remains to be seen if that appears.

There are many parallels with what we had to do at AFC Wimbledon...though we did it with a much bigger fanbase, better people in charge (no direspect to those at Gretna) and a pyramid to climb. We also got our own football ground PDQ - which was crucial to us progressing.

It's quite a "aw bless" moment when you see people saying "bring alexander back because he loves the club". They don't quite get that he won't be too keen to come back to gretna in return for 12k a year and his petrol money. They don't grasp the reality of financing this venture at all. My guess is 300 at their first home game falling to sub 100 by mid season once the novelty has worn off. Many will constantly be looking over their shoulders watching and waiting for the next investor prepared to pi$$ a few thou a month to make them "great" again. Nor do they see how far they have truly fallen in terms of credibility as well as in a footballing sense. i would reckon most of the talking is coming from punters who expect to see them back in the sfl in three years time.