[Bloobell]

I believe if we are to become a totally Independant country we should look at all our Acts and see if they are fit for purpose in 21st Century Scotland

If the plea from the Wee Frees forces the Scottish Government to look at a 19th Centurt Education Act then fine and well but my own view is that esposed in the final paragraph of this article by the National Secular Society

SoS article

[jester]

"Can we have our schools back? In 1872 the Free Church, together with the other Presbyterian churches, gave up their schools to be run by the state.

"This was done of the condition that they continued to be Christian schools run on a Christian ethos.

"As Scottish education has moved away from its Christian roots so it has drifted into a dumbed-down social education which increasingly achieves less and less.

"The result of this is that the rich can send their children off to 'good schools' while the poor are left with sink schools and little prospect of advancement."
Agree 100%, as long as they foot the bill. The same should go for any other schools run by religious sects.

[centralparker]

Don't fancy the idea of church-controlled schools but the point about education being dumbed down over the years is spot on.

[xbl]

centralparker, on Mar 30 2008, 14:04, said:

...but the point about education being dumbed down over the years is spot on.

Ah yes, this old hoary old chestnut!

I would argue that if you looked at literacy rates over the last few decades, there is a decent increase (havent looked at the figures). I would say that the dumbing down argument is a load of rubbish.

[vikingTON]

Average IQ has increased significantly over the past decades - that may have an impact on results also.

[jester]

State schools are churning out fuckwits with a real inability to read and write. I worked building a school in Kenya in 1996, the kids there had a real desire to learn, many of them walked miles to get the education they valued so highly. Their spoken and written English was of a better quality than much of what I see here. Is it true we allow kids to answer exams in the retard speak of text mesage language? It is seemingly acceptable if the child is understood, more so than if they are actually correct in what they write down.

[vikingTON]

jester, on Mar 30 2008, 15:17, said:

State schools are churning out fuckwits with a real inability to read and write. I worked building a school in Kenya in 1996, the kids there had a real desire to learn, many of them walked miles to get the education they valued so highly. Their spoken and written English was of a better quality than much of what I see here. Is it true we allow kids to answer exams in the retard speak of text mesage language? It is seemingly acceptable if the child is understood, more so than if they are actually correct in what they write down.

No it is not.

[centralparker]

vikingTON, on Mar 30 2008, 15:02, said:

Average IQ has increased significantly over the past decades - that may have an impact on results also.

That's not true. IQ is a measure of a person's inherent intelligence. The human race has been around for thousands of years. No way have our mental capabilities surged during the insignificant time-frame of a few decades.

Maybe they dumbed the test down.

This post has been edited by centralparker: 30 March 2008 - 14:22

[kiddy]

jester, on Mar 30 2008, 14:02, said:

"Can we have our schools back? In 1872 the Free Church, together with the other Presbyterian churches, gave up their schools to be run by the state.

"This was done of the condition that they continued to be Christian schools run on a Christian ethos.

"As Scottish education has moved away from its Christian roots so it has drifted into a dumbed-down social education which increasingly achieves less and less.

"The result of this is that the rich can send their children off to 'good schools' while the poor are left with sink schools and little prospect of advancement."

Agree 100%, as long as they foot the bill. The same should go for any other schools run by religious sects.

I have to agree, you either fund all faith schooling or none of it.

There is a place for faith schooling, IMO, but this is in the private sector.

[Michael W]

I'm not a fan of faith schools. Education and religion should not be combined IMO. If people want to learn about religion, then they can go to church or whatever. Separating pupils on the basis of their religion causes more problems than it solves.

[vikingTON]

centralparker, on Mar 30 2008, 15:22, said:

That's not true. IQ is a measure of a person's inherent intelligence. The human race has been around for thousands of years. No way have our mental capabilities surged during the insignificant time-frame of a few decades.

Maybe they dumbed the test down.

Yes it is.
In the same way that height has surged during the insignificant time frame of a few decades, it is likely due to both genetic stimulation and environmental factors.

[centralparker]

vikingTON, on Mar 30 2008, 15:29, said:

In the same way that height has surged during the insignificant time frame of a few decades, it is likely due to both genetic stimulation and environmental factors.

Height has increased rapidly due to a big improvement in diet, medical facilities and living conditions. But I don't see how our brains can have developed in line with this.

People in the old days may have been poor but they certainly weren't daft.

[vikingTON]

centralparker, on Mar 30 2008, 15:32, said:

Height has increased rapidly due to a big improvement in diet, medical facilities and living conditions. But I don't see how our brains can have developed in line with this.

People in the old days may have been poor but they certainly weren't daft.

Medical science has shown a clear link between diet, particularly during childhood, and brain development.

[RCR]

When you're finished reading that, why not read david robertson's book "the dawkins letters", where he rubbishly refutes the god delusion. He's up his own arse, and seems to enjoy the limelight. Seemed like a decent guy in real life, strangely enough.

Some people dont appreaciate the fact that we have the freedom to choose whether or not we get abortions in this country.

[Rowan]

Michael W, on Mar 30 2008, 14:28, said:

I'm not a fan of faith schools. Education and religion should not be combined IMO. If people want to learn about religion, then they can go to church or whatever. Separating pupils on the basis of their religion causes more problems than it solves.

Excellent post.

[centralparker]

Michael W, on Mar 30 2008, 15:28, said:

I'm not a fan of faith schools. Education and religion should not be combined IMO.

Although in reality, how much religious instruction actually takes place within a typical Scottish state school? A token assembly once or twice each term? A weekly compulsory period of RE during which they learn about other faiths in any case?

It's not as if the kids are being indoctrinated with passages from the bible every single day. Christ, how many teachers actually go to church?

[craigkillie]

centralparker, on Mar 30 2008, 19:22, said:

Although in reality, how much religious instruction actually takes place within a typical Scottish state school? A token assembly once or twice each term? A weekly compulsory period of RE during which they learn about other faiths in any case?

It's not as if the kids are being indoctrinated with passages from the bible every single day. Christ, how many teachers actually go to church?

I don't think he's talking about state schools.

[centralparker]

craigkillie, on Mar 30 2008, 20:03, said:

I don't think he's talking about state schools.

But if a private school wants to have a religious theme then I wouldn't object to that. Parents have the freedom of choice whether or not to send their kids to these establishments.

[H_B]

centralparker, on Mar 30 2008, 21:44, said:

But if a private school wants to have a religious theme then I wouldn't object to that. Parents have the freedom of choice whether or not to send their kids to these establishments.

Correct. I too have no problems with religion in the private sector.

[Wee Bully]

Ron Burgundy, on Mar 30 2008, 14:50, said:

Sometimes, I am asked to sum up the constitutional settlement that I envisage, and the answer combines the balance of change and continuity that is right for a modern Scotland at this stage of our national journey. With independence, equality and responsibility will replace provincialism and negativity – a "new sang" for an old nation.

Alex Salmond


this man is an idiot.....this is his view of the constitutional settlement.....i'm dumbfounded. He is entirely without substance.

Oh come on Wendy, you're not getting 10 out of 10 for that!

[Bloobell]

kiddy, on Mar 30 2008, 15:25, said:

I have to agree, you either fund all faith schooling or none of it.

There is a place for faith schooling, IMO, but this is in the private sector.

The main thrust behind me starting this thread in the first place

[Bloobell]

vikingTON, on Mar 30 2008, 15:29, said:

Yes it is.
In the same way that height has surged during the insignificant time frame of a few decades, it is likely due to both genetic stimulation and environmental factors.

Diet as well, although we may start to see a downturn in the next generation if it's a major factor