[Demented Zebra]

xb@sslichtie, on Feb 6 2008, 15:29, said:

There are a ridiculously low number of "spongers from abroad" though. The last time we had this discussion, I think someone managed to post evidence that the total number of spongers from abroad numbered 12 or something like that!

Most people come here to work, despite what the tabloids may say!

How can you possibly put a figure on it ?
One famous scam is for a Pole to come into the uk and find a job.
The Pole then invites his wife and children over to stay a wee while. He then claims for his wife and children.
When everything is up and running the wife returns to Poland with the husband sending the cash to Poland. It's a well known scam.

People from Pakistan never like to do anything with receipts. Why ? Because they can dodge tax.
Some might say that is cleaver mind !

As was pointed out above. I'm all for immigrants coming in and contributing skills to our country. But there is lots of scams going on.

Money that could go to our under paid pensioners which you will be one day. The health service which you and if you have any children use.

[sonofjenova]

centralparker, on Feb 6 2008, 10:08, said:

With recent events in Kenya bringing hell-on-earth to yet another African nation, is it time for the Western world to take the bull by the horns and re-colonise the Dark Continent? Kenya's collapse into bloody anarchy is particularly worrying as it was long regarded as a model of African independence, albeit one where corruption still existed. The continent has been torn apart by war over the last few decades, most states are in the iron-grip of a dictator who will do whatever is necessary to cling on to power while siphoning off much of the country's budget into his personal bank account. It's not unusual for these guys to spend more on ministerial limousines than fighting the diseases which kill and cripple the population.

In short, the place is a shambles and there are very few places where it would be considered safe to travel, particularly in the sub-Sahran regions. While it's not ideal to have a poor country subjugated to a wealthier one, at least life for the ordinary citizen would be better in a modern colony where law and order was restored and access to health services and education was granted. Aid could be spent on useful projects such as supplying clean water and sanitation facilities, rather than lining the pockets of a tyrant.

Something has to done. Countless billions of pounds worth of aid has poured into Africa since the nations were granted independence from their former masters yet the continent has slid backwards rather than progressed. Alternatively, we could just leave the place to rot.

Right...you post stories about how our country's going to the dogs and is run by pathetic positive discrimination-led PC do-gooders on an almost daily basis. What suddenly makes you think this country would be able to handle the hot potato of a country experiencing civil war?

[sonofjenova]

thistleburd1876, on Feb 6 2008, 16:23, said:

Its probs the brits that caused it! Divide and conquer.
Anyway i wouldnt believe everything you hear in the media.

Look at robert mugabe he was made out to be a dictator but al he was doing was taking the land of the british settlers as they had all the money. Given to them by the brits that invaded africa in the first place.

What? He's a vile homophobic racist who is "leading" Zimbabwe into an era of 8000% inflation and horrific campaigning against people whose only crime is having white skin

Do your research before you come to the keyboard, you fucking imbecile.

Edit - Barry from Slough possibility considered

This post has been edited by sonofjenova: 06 February 2008 - 19:11

[Demented Zebra]

Swampy, on Feb 6 2008, 18:39, said:

While I agree with the last two sentences... you're going to have to explain what you mean by "white" here, because my understanding was that the whites in South Africa were generally descended from Boers or Anglos, or some affiliated group, and were not indigenous.

I will try my best.
Bores, Dutch descendant been in Africa for centuries and make up the majority of whites. Being there centuries.

Anglo.. Mostly British descendants and not in the majority of early settlement in South Africa.

Other Anglos making up the white are German which are not in large numbers.

Now I'm not sure what you want me to answer here. All I will say is their as African as the next black man.


Now a good few hundred years before that "Picks" ruled Scotland.
Then
A cross between Celts , Norsman and Normans ( French ) who are the main people for shaping Scotland in the early days settled in our beautiful land.
Are they not Scotts now.

Are white African not African ?

Hope this helps. If not I have given up anyway. Enough is enough

[Swampy]

It's this bit I'm asking about:

"Going on scientific evidence it has been proved whites were in South Africas coast. Where most whites live. Long before blacks."

Edit: Ahh, I think I get it now... the whites were at the coast before the blacks were at the coast, not before the blacks were in that country/area of Africa... is that right?

This post has been edited by Swampy: 06 February 2008 - 19:21

[centralparker]

Lochwinnch Saint, on Feb 6 2008, 15:57, said:

Most of the mid and southern African nations have unbelievable wealth in resources. But the money never trickles down.

That's reason enough to re-colonise, extract the minerals and the wealth that goes with them but return a generous amount of the profits to the local people so that they can enjoy a far better lifestyle.

Everybody wins.

[The Old Northerner]

Quote

That's reason enough to re-colonise, extract the minerals and the wealth that goes with them but return a generous amount of the profits to the local people so that they can enjoy a far better lifestyle.

Everybody wins.

Nope. Insurrections will happen. Independence movements will re-emerge. And the civilians will bear the brunt of it. There would be a pretty horrendous casualty rate amongst troops (I assume they will be 'ours') as well - and the moral high ground of 'their deaths are making others' lives better' will count for little when you're up for re-election. In fact, the Daily Mail will reserve a little corner in Hell for you

This post has been edited by Replicant: 07 February 2008 - 10:02

[stemjsim]

I have the solution. Nuke the place. Seriously Kill everyone in the area and repopulate, or turn it into a theme park. Same with the middle east. The weather is hot so it'd make a good holiday resort anyway. I'm sure there are plenty of nukes just sitting around doing nothing, why not use them?

[Demented Zebra]

Swampy, on Feb 6 2008, 19:21, said:

It's this bit I'm asking about:

"Going on scientific evidence it has been proved whites were in South Africas coast. Where most whites live. Long before blacks."

Edit: Ahh, I think I get it now... the whites were at the coast before the blacks were at the coast, not before the blacks were in that country/area of Africa... is that right?

Scientific evidence which most people use as fact as proved that white people settled in South Africa before blacks.
The blacks came from mid to north Africa and migrated to the south after the whites.

So I'm wondering if you don't see whites as African what shall we call them "Nomads"

What about America ? South America ? Australia ? New Zealand ? Majority population white.
What about the natives of these lands ?
It's a stupid debate

[Swampy]

Lochwinnch Saint, on Feb 7 2008, 14:19, said:

Scientific evidence which most people use as fact as proved that white people settled in South Africa before blacks.
The blacks came from mid to north Africa and migrated to the south after the whites.

So I'm wondering if you don't see whites as African what shall we call them "Nomads"

What about America ? South America ? Australia ? New Zealand ? Majority population white.
What about the natives of these lands ?
It's a stupid debate

Who are these ancient "whites", though? Where are their descendents?

I'm asking out of genuine curiousity, not as an attack. I took it as given that the whites in South Africa were the descendents of Boers and other assorted Euros, and Anglos.

[Akritoi]

I'd sooner get the government to pay more attention to the armed forces and our budgets than go off on another bloody foray into the old empire.

[Forest_Fifer]

Lochwinnch Saint, on Feb 7 2008, 14:19, said:

Scientific evidence which most people use as fact as proved that white people settled in South Africa before blacks.
The blacks came from mid to north Africa and migrated to the south after the whites.

So I'm wondering if you don't see whites as African what shall we call them "Nomads"

What about America ? South America ? Australia ? New Zealand ? Majority population white.
What about the natives of these lands ?
It's a stupid debate

The only stupid thing in this debate is you.

From Wikipedia

Quote

Settlements of Bantu-speaking peoples, who were iron-using agriculturists and herdsmen, were already present south of the Limpopo River by the fourth or fifth century (see Bantu expansion) displacing and absorbing the original KhoiSan speakers. They slowly moved south and the earliest ironworks in modern-day KwaZulu-Natal Province are believed to date from around 1050. The southernmost group was the Xhosa people, whose language incorporates certain linguistic traits from the earlier KhoiSan people, reaching the Fish River, in today's Eastern Cape Province. These Iron Age populations displaced earlier peoples, who often had hunter-gatherer societies, as they migrated.

The first white contacts with SA were Portuguese in around 1500. The Dutch didn't arrive until the 17th century.

[centralparker]

Forest_Fifer, on Feb 7 2008, 14:30, said:

The first white contacts with SA were Portuguese in around 1500.

That would explain why Portuguese it spoken in Mozambique to this day.

[The Old Northerner]

Quote

That would explain why Portuguese it spoken in Mozambique to this day.

Did it need explaining? Angola in Africa as well

[centralparker]

There were French, British, Portuguese, Belgian, German and Italian colonies in Africa.

But what about the Spaniards? Surely they must have had some African territory somewhere? I know that a tiny corner of Morrocco still actually belongs to Spain to this day.

This post has been edited by centralparker: 07 February 2008 - 14:41

[The Old Northerner]

Quote

But what about the Spaniards?

Too busy milking South America

Edit:

and the Phillipines and environs

Edit edit:

And bits of the Carribean

This post has been edited by Replicant: 07 February 2008 - 14:47

[Demented Zebra]

Quote

I'm asking out of genuine curiousity, not as an attack. I took it as given that the whites in South Africa were the descendents of Boers and other assorted Euros, and Anglos.

I can go along with that Sawmpy

Quote

The only stupid thing in this debate is you.

A man of kind words
Their is a debate to whether Africa is a land of blacks only ( Africans ). Or blacks and whites
( Africans )
Not who was first on the content oh wise one

[Captain_Sensible]

Ron Burgundy, on Feb 6 2008, 12:01, said:

It's not that long ago most Scots were rabid dug like fuckwits scarpering about the hills.

Not that long ago?

You'll see that many are still like that next time you visit Paisley............

[MarvMarvSuperMarv]

stemjsim, on Feb 7 2008, 10:06, said:

I have the solution. Nuke the place. Seriously Kill everyone in the area and repopulate, or turn it into a theme park. Same with the middle east. The weather is hot so it'd make a good holiday resort anyway. I'm sure there are plenty of nukes just sitting around doing nothing, why not use them?

That post is why your not prime minister fanny!

[Swampy]

Lochwinnch Saint, on Feb 7 2008, 15:40, said:

I can go along with that Sawmpy

Right, so, now I'm asking, given the existence of these whites before 1100 or whenever, how does it follow that an immigrant white has claim to their heritage?

For example, if I moved to South Africa tomorrow, what would give me the right to call myself "African" - because surely it's not the presence of people of my pigmentation who have now presumably long since died out?

I'm not applying this to the various Boers or Anglos who have been African for generations - just to your average, common-or-garden white from elsewhere.

[MarvMarvSuperMarv]

They are still paying back interest to developed counries, I say everyone writes off the interest owned and let them develop.

[stemjsim]

MarvMarvSuperMarv, on Feb 7 2008, 16:15, said:

That post is why your not prime minister fanny!

The only reason I'm not prime minister is because I've not decided to run yet. My name isn't fanny either.