[No8.]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 13:22, said:

Well he already proved with PSV that he certainly is a decent player and his league goal scoring record with Celtic, which is better than Flo’s at Rangers, is one not to be sniffed at.



He has been poor this season, but it is blatantly obvious he is not fit. I would rest him from the 1^st team, let him recharge his batteries and get fully fit and match fit through reserve games. Then and only then should he be in contention for a 1^st team start.

And is it as good as Boyds? Afterall he did cost more than 10 times more. He has not played well at all since signing for Celtic. With Killen as the alternative though i certainly don't think Celtic can rest him for to long

[glasnost]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 13:31, said:

And is it as good as Boyds? Afterall he did cost more than 10 times more. He has not played well at all since signing for Celtic. With Killen as the alternative though i certainly don't think Celtic can rest him for to long

No it's not as good as Boyds - I am not the one comparing transfer fees. Venegoor certainly has played well since signing for Celtic, injuries aside he was a more than decent player for us last season. The same cannot be said of this season.

[H_B]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 13:24, said:

On paper we have our 2 easiest games to come after the Barca whereas you have your 2 toughest.

Eh? Shaktar at home is Celtic's easiest game imo.

Oh, and Stuttgart are shite. Celtic's group is certainly easier s Lyon are better than either of Celtic's mid level opponents, but Stuttgart would be bottom of Celtic's group as well, if you replaced them for either Shakhtar or Benfica.

[No8.]

Hieronymous_Bosch, on Nov 7 2007, 13:41, said:

Eh? Shaktar at home is Celtic's easiest game imo.

Oh, and Stuttgart are shite. Celtic's group is certainly easier s Lyon are better than either of Celtic's mid level opponents, but Stuttgart would be bottom of Celtic's group as well, if you replaced them for either Shakhtar or Benfica.

They are not great compared to Barca or Lyon but they have to have something to win the German Championship. I would put them easily ahead of Benfica,Shakhtar and Celtic.

Edit to add....Just checked Uefa ranking and they are 10 places higher than Benfica and 44 places above Shakhtar. They are ranked below Celtic though. So they are clearly better than Celtics opponents.

This post has been edited by No8.: 07 November 2007 - 13:57

[Lordofthewing]

centralhoop, on Nov 7 2007, 00:55, said:

Your either a brave or stupid man (boy) coming away with bold statements about UEFA cup slots on the eve of a visit to Camp Nou . If memory serves, does your lot not have a history of throwing promising starts to CL campaign's?

At this juncture I feel it only right (after all the negative comments Ive made about him of late) that I say how well McGeady played tonight. He was chief tormentor for sure! I just wish he played like that more often.

Defo. If McGeady played like that more often for us we'd probably see a decent goalscoring improvement, both in terms of final ball, and willingness to shoot instead of pass. Was one of few players who got above pass marks IMO.

Ps: Is Scott Brown superhuman or something? The way he was able to walk (or at least hobble) off the pitch a minute or two after the challenge makes him look (as someone said in a dedicated thread about the challenge) utterly mental! I think a lot of players are going to be shitting it going into a 50-50 with him!

[glasnost]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 13:53, said:

They are not great compared to Barca or Lyon but they have to have something to win the German Championship. I would put them easily ahead of Benfica,Shakhtar and Celtic.

So you would put them easily ahead of Rangers as well?

They have been by and large abysmal this season, currently languishing in the lower half of the Bundesliga.

[glasnost]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 13:53, said:

Edit to add....Just checked Uefa ranking and they are 10 places higher than Benfica and 44 places above Shakhtar. They are ranked below Celtic though. So they are clearly better than Celtics opponents.

Well, that’s not a very good means of making a judgement given that the rankings include the past 5 seasons results. Surely it’s the current team that would be needed to be looked at and not previous teams and players?

[Whistle Blower]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 13:27, said:

Shakhtar at home one of our 2 toughest games? Mmmm, don’t think so.



We could be through in the next round without having to need a result in our last game away to Milan. It wouldn’t be the end of the World for me though if we went into the UEFA Cup.

Are you Jamie Carragher ?

[H_B]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 13:59, said:

Surely it’s the current team that would be needed to be looked at and not previous teams and players?

Exactly. And Stuttgart's is a Who's He? of World football.

The only point they will get is against Rangers. Dreadful side.

[glasnost]

Hieronymous_Bosch, on Nov 7 2007, 14:06, said:

Exactly. And Stuttgart's is a Who's He? of World football.

The only point they will get is against Rangers. Dreadful side.

In actual fact, using the UEFA rankings which determined seedings for the CL this season, Benfica were in 19th place and Stuttgart 30th.

[pollymac]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 14:08, said:

In actual fact, using the UEFA rankings which determined seedings for the CL this season, Benfica were in 19th place and Stuttgart 30th.

And the current season has them (before last nights matches) in 18th and 37th places respectively.

F'k knows where he's got his figures from.

[Swampy]

pollymac, on Nov 7 2007, 14:58, said:

And the current season has them (before last nights matches) in 18th and 37th places respectively.

F'k knows where he's got his figures from.

Probably the Access List, since Benfica had to qualify and Stuttgart didn't.

Going off that logic, though, PSV and CSKA Moscow are better than Valencia, Liverpool and Arsenal.

(Well, maybe they are better than Liverpool, but you know what I mean )

This post has been edited by Swampy: 07 November 2007 - 15:50

[DomDom]

Quote

Exactly. And Stuttgart's is a Who's He? of World football.

The only point they will get is against Rangers. Dreadful side.

They'll not get a point against Rangers. Lyon are a FAR better side than them and Rangers trounced them. Stuttgart will be no different.

[JohnoftheJungle]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 13:31, said:

And is it as good as Boyds? Afterall he did cost more than 10 times more. He has not played well at all since signing for Celtic. With Killen as the alternative though i certainly don't think Celtic can rest him for to long

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 13:36, said:

No it's not as good as Boyds - I am not the one comparing transfer fees. Venegoor certainly has played well since signing for Celtic, injuries aside he was a more than decent player for us last season. The same cannot be said of this season.

Im sure I read somewhere that Hesselinks goals to game ratio was better than Boyds last year.

[glasnost]

JohnoftheJungle, on Nov 7 2007, 16:52, said:

Im sure I read somewhere that Hesselinks goals to game ratio was better than Boyds last year.

Yep you are correct, last season his goals to games ratio was better than Boyds.

[Dunning1874]

To be honest, that game was only worth watching for Archie McPherson's commentary. Fucking class.

[No8.]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 16:57, said:

Yep you are correct, last season his goals to games ratio was better than Boyds.

According to the SPL figures for last season Boyd scored 0.63 goals per game...JVOH Scored 0.62 goals per game. Close but no cigar.

[LordHawHaw]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 18:36, said:

According to the SPL figures for last season Boyd scored 0.63 goals per game...JVOH Scored 0.62 goals per game. Close but no cigar.

Talk about clutching at Straws

last night was the sort of games you want to go to, superb entertainment.

I hope Rangers learn from Celtic about Barcelona. last time I was there I celebrated BBJ scoring to get a draw, time before we put them oot B) I think they have only won 1 out of the last 10 v Scottish opposition

[glasnost]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 18:36, said:

According to the SPL figures for last season Boyd scored 0.63 goals per game...JVOH Scored 0.62 goals per game. Close but no cigar.

Venegoor in total made 30 appearances for Celtic last season - 26 starts and 4 sub appearances. His return was 18 goals - a % return rate of 60%.

Boyd in total made 45 apperances for Rangers last season - 37 starts and 8 sub apperances. His return was 25 goals - a % return rate of 55.5%.

Where are you getting your figures from that dispute this?

and

Where are you getting your bizzare stats from re UEFA rankings?

[LordHawHaw]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 19:18, said:

and

Where are you getting your bizzare stats from re UEFA rankings?

Bloobell has kindly compiled them

[No8.]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 19:18, said:

Venegoor in total made 30 appearances for Celtic last season - 26 starts and 4 sub appearances. His return was 18 goals - a % return rate of 60%.

Boyd in total made 45 apperances for Rangers last season - 37 starts and 8 sub apperances. His return was 25 goals - a % return rate of 55.5%.

Where are you getting your figures from that dispute this?

and

Where are you getting your bizzare stats from re UEFA rankings?

I thought the 'Spl Figures' was a kinda give away.

[glasnost]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 22:13, said:

I thought the 'Spl Figures' was a kinda give away.

But the figures from the SPL don't add up to your stats.

What about your bizzare UEFA stats?

[No8.]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 22:17, said:

But the figures from the SPL don't add up to your stats.

What about your bizzare UEFA stats?

Uefa stats were for 2006 rankings...i didn't notice when i first posted them...The Goal scoring is from the official Spl stats. Your stats are obviously not from league games as you have Boyd playing 45 times. If you are going down that road you should have included Boyds international gmes / goals.

[glasnost]

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 22:25, said:

Uefa stats were for 2006 rankings..

Sorry, I still don't understand where you are getting your UEFA stat from - last season (06/07) Stuttgart were not in Euorpean competition

No8., on Nov 7 2007, 22:25, said:

The Goal scoring is from the official Spl stats. Your stats are obviously not from league games as you have Boyd playing 45 times. If you are going down that road you should have included Boyds international gmes / goals.

Yes my original stats included all games that Boyd played for Rangers and Venegoor for Celtic. I subseuently said that even the SPL only stats don't add up to your stats. Have you got a link to these 'offical Spl stats'?

[No8.]

glasnost, on Nov 7 2007, 22:34, said:

Sorry, I still don't understand where you are getting your UEFA stat from - last season (06/07) Stuttgart were not in Euorpean competition



Yes my original stats included all games that Boyd played for Rangers and Venegoor for Celtic. I subseuently said that even the SPL only stats don't add up to your stats. Have you got a link to these 'offical Spl stats'?

1 AC Milan Ita 23.1485 31.2560 16.9285 31.6200 26.0675 129.020
2 FC Barcelona Esp 27.9025 31.1150 16.7230 17.1040 34.1620 127.006
3 Real Madrid Esp 35.9025 27.1150 21.7230 18.1040 17.1620 120.006
4 Internazionale Ita 21.1485 28.2560 15.9285 22.6200 24.0675 112.020
5 Juventus Ita 18.1485 29.2560 12.9285 23.6200 23.0675 107.020
6 Liverpool Eng 22.8185 20.5200 14.7125 30.1385 17.7610 105.950
7 Arsenal Eng 15.8185 17.5200 17.7125 19.1385 31.7610 101.950
8 Manchester United Eng 28.8185 26.5200 15.7125 17.1385 12.7610 100.950
9 Valencia Esp 18.9025 27.1150 29.7230 14.1040 5.1620 95.006
10 Olympique Lyon Fra 12.3510 10.6125 18.4550 23.7710 24.5680 89.757
11 FC Porto Por 14.0935 24.5475 26.3825 13.6950 8.8150 87.533
12 PSV Eindhoven Ned 17.3550 8.0350 17.7875 24.9600 13.5025 81.640
13 Bayern München Ger 27.4550 6.0170 10.5555 19.4885 17.4440 80.960
14 Chelsea Eng 8.8185 5.5200 22.7125 25.1385 17.7610 79.950
15 Villarreal Esp 4.9025 5.1150 20.7230 22.1040 24.1620 77.006
Deportivo La Coruña Esp 21.9025 19.1150 21.7230 9.1040 5.1620 77.006
17 AS Roma Ita 18.1485 17.2560 12.9285 8.6200 19.0675 76.020
18 Newcastle United Eng 3.8185 15.5200 24.7125 27.1385 4.7610 75.950
19 Panathinaikos Gre 21.7125 17.3650 6.3750 14.0350 7.1000 66.587
20 Schalke 04 Ger 9.4550 11.0170 6.5555 13.4885 24.4440 64.960
21 AC Parma Ita 15.1485 10.2560 9.9285 22.6200 5.0675 63.020
22 Sevilla Esp 4.9025 5.1150 4.7230 16.1040 30.1620 61.006
23 Ajax Ned 8.3550 18.0350 6.7875 11.9600 15.5025 60.640
24 Celtic Sco 11.1860 23.4335 15.4335 8.5675 1.4025 60.023
25 VfB Stuttgart Ger 4.4550 16.0170 11.5555 14.4885 13.4440 59.960
26 AS Monaco Fra 2.3510 2.6125 23.4550 15.7710 14.5680 58.757
27 Bayer Leverkusen Ger 27.4550 10.0170 1.5555 15.4885 3.4440 57.960
28 Lazio Roma Ita 9.1485 23.2560 7.9285 11.6200 5.0675 57.020
29 Borussia Dortmund Ger 25.4550 18.0170 6.5555 3.4885 3.4440 56.960
30 Lille OSC Fra 14.3510 2.6125 4.4550 16.7710 16.5680 54.757
31 Feyenoord Ned 24.3550 7.0350 6.7875 12.9600 3.5025 54.640
32 Sporting CP Lisbon Por 12.0935 4.5475 8.3825 25.6950 3.8150 54.533
33 Middlesbrough Eng 3.8185 3.5200 3.7125 17.1385 25.7610 53.950
34 AJ Auxerre Fra 2.3510 10.6125 15.4550 19.7710 5.5680 53.757
35 Benfica Por 3.0935 3.5475 13.3825 13.6950 17.8150 51.533
36 Club Brugge Bel 10.9385 7.2685 11.9385 10.0210 9.8150 49.981
37 FC Basel Sui 2.0210 14.9385 2.6185 9.8660 20.0935 49.537
38 Olympique Marseille Fra 2.3510 2.6125 24.4550 3.7710 15.5680 48.757
39 AZ Alkmaar Ned 3.3550 2.0350 1.7875 27.9600 13.5025 48.640
40 Girondins Bordeaux Fra 10.3510 11.6125 18.4550 3.7710 3.5680 47.757
41 Hertha BSC Ger 13.4550 15.0170 2.5555 3.4885 12.4440 46.960
42 Steaua Bucuresti Rom 1.8660 0.7150 5.4300 11.8150 26.5550 46.381
43 Real Betis Esp 4.9025 15.1150 4.7230 4.1040 16.1620 45.006
44 Sparta Praha Cze 14.8150 8.0460 10.4335 4.9485 6.5260 44.769
45 Real Zaragoza Esp 9.9025 5.1150 4.7230 19.1040 5.1620 44.006
46 Werder Bremen Ger 4.4550 7.0170 1.5555 16.4885 14.4440 43.960
47 Olympiakos Piraeus Gre 8.7125 6.3650 5.3750 16.0350 7.1000 43.587
48 Glasgow Rangers Sco 11.1860 4.4335 6.4335 7.5675 13.4025 43.023
49 Celta de Vigo Esp 8.9025 12.1150 12.7230 4.1040 5.1620 43.006
50 CSKA Moscow Rus 0.7700 2.1960 1.9385 27.3000 10.3000 42.504
51 Paris Saint-Germain Fra 10.3510 12.6125 4.4550 10.7710 3.5680 41.757
52 Lokomotiv Moscow Rus 6.7700 8.1960 10.9385 3.3000 12.3000 41.504
53 Boavista Por 14.0935 18.5475 3.3825 2.6950 1.8150 40.533
54 Real Mallorca Esp 11.9025 5.1150 13.7230 4.1040 5.1620 40.006
Málaga CF Esp 4.9025 21.1150 4.7230 4.1040 5.1620 40.006
56 RC Lens Fra 2.3510 11.6125 8.4550 3.7710 13.5680 39.757
57 AEK Athens Gre 13.7125 14.3650 4.3750 5.0350 2.1000 39.587
58 Anderlecht Bel 5.9385 13.2685 7.9385 5.0210 6.8150 38.981
59 Besiktas Tur 1.8560 13.5400 8.1450 7.7735 7.3200 38.634
60 Zenit St. Petersburg Rus 0.7700 3.1960 1.9385 11.3000 20.3000 37.504
61 Udinese Ita 4.1485 5.2560 4.9285 6.6200 16.0675 37.020
62 Leeds United Eng 11.8185 11.5200 3.7125 5.1385 4.7610 36.950
63 Dinamo Kiev Ukr 5.1960 8.4025 7.6085 13.6730 1.8975 36.777
64 Palermo Ita 4.1485 5.2560 2.9285 4.6200 19.0675 36.020
65 Rosenborg BK Nor 5.0725 5.8910 11.0210 6.1550 7.7820 35.921
66 FC Sochaux-Montbéliard Fra 2.3510 2.6125 13.4550 13.7710 3.5680 35.757
67 Levski Sofia Bul 1.5950 6.3750 7.3750 1.7835 17.8875 35.016
68 Ipswich Town Eng 11.8185 8.5200 3.7125 5.1385 4.7610 33.950
69 Shakhtar Donetsk Ukr 3.1960 3.4025 1.6085 12.6730 12.8975 33.777
70 Slavia Praha Cze 2.8150 11.0460 8.4335 0.9485 10.5260 33.769
71 Galatasaray Tur 14.8560 5.5400 9.1450 1.7735 2.3200 33.634
72 PAOK Thessaloniki Gre 11.7125 9.3650 5.3750 2.0350 5.1000 33.587
73 Espanyol Esp 4.9025 5.1150 4.7230 4.1040 14.1620 33.006
Athletic Bilbao Esp 4.9025 5.1150 4.7230 13.1040 5.1620 33.006
75 Real Sociedad Esp 4.9025 5.1150 12.7230 4.1040 5.1620 32.006
76 RC Strasbourg Fra 3.3510 2.6125 4.4550 3.7710 17.5680 31.757
77 Hamburger SV Ger 4.4550 3.0170 3.5555 3.4885 16.4440 30.960
78 Bolton Wanderers Eng 3.8185 3.5200 3.7125 5.1385 14.7610 30.950
79 Heerenveen Ned 3.3550 4.0350 1.7875 10.9600 10.5025 30.640
80 Partizan Belgrade Srb 3.0450 6.5950 5.4850 12.4025 3.0725 30.600
81 Rapid Bucuresti Rom 1.8660 1.7150 1.4300 1.8150 23.5550 30.381
82 Perugia Ita 4.1485 5.2560 10.9285 4.6200 5.0675 30.020
83 Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk Ukr 2.1960 1.4025 7.6085 11.6730 6.8975 29.777
84 Wisla Kraków Pol 6.3610 12.1860 7.3610 2.8250 0.3710 29.104
85 Sampdoria Ita 4.1485 5.2560 2.9285 4.6200 12.0675 29.020
86 CD Alavés Esp 4.9025 10.1150 4.7230 4.1040 5.1620 29.006
87 Fulham FC Eng 3.8185 11.5200 3.7125 5.1385 4.7610 28.950
88 Slovan Liberec Cze 14.8150 9.0460 2.4335 0.9485 1.5260 28.769
89 Fenerbahçe Tur 2.8560 5.5400 2.1450 10.7735 7.3200 28.634
90 Fiorentina Ita 10.1485 5.2560 2.9285 4.6200 5.0675 28.020
91 FC Nantes Fra 13.3510 2.6125 4.4550 3.7710 3.5680 27.757
92 Austria Wien Aut 1.1135 3.3200 0.7010 19.5160 3.0725 27.723
93 Manchester City Eng 3.8185 3.5200 9.7125 5.1385 4.7610 26.950
94 Hapoel Tel-Aviv Isr 18.7500 3.9250 1.7425 1.1960 0.4950 26.108
95 Osasuna Esp 4.9025 5.1150 4.7230 4.1040 6.1620 25.006
96 Alemannia Aachen Ger 4.4550 3.0170 1.5555 12.4885 3.4440 24.960
97 FC Utrecht Ned 7.3550 2.0350 6.7875 5.9600 2.5025 24.640
98 Litex Lovech Bul 7.5950 1.3750 1.3750 2.7835 10.8875 24.016
Spain 4.9025 5.1150 4.7230 4.1040 5.1620 24.006
99 Blackburn Rovers Eng 3.8185 5.5200 4.7125 5.1385 4.7610 23.950
100 Roda JC Kerkrade Ned 13.3550 2.0350 1.7875 3.9600 2.5025 23.640
101 Brøndby IF Den 7.4850 2.0725 7.3860 0.4950 6.1550 23.593
102 Grasshoppers Zürich Sui 9.0210 4.9385 2.6185 0.8660 6.0935 23.537
103 Chievo Verona Ita 4.1485 6.2560 2.9285 4.6200 5.0675 23.020
104 Everton Eng 3.8185 3.5200 3.7125 5.1385 6.7610 22.950
Aston Villa Eng 5.8185 3.5200 3.7125 5.1385 4.7610 22.950
106 Gençlerbirligi Tur 2.8560 1.5400 14.1450 2.7735 1.3200 22.634
107 Dinamo Bucuresti Rom 0.8660 0.7150 7.4300 2.8150 10.5550 22.381
Italy 4.1485 5.2560 2.9285 4.6200 5.0675 22.020