[NEVERBELIEVER]

I can handle losing 2-0 to a team far better than Celtic On the night , what I cant handle is watching the worst right back to play for Celtic in the last 15 years ..the player is shite , and never good enough for Celtic . Does the guy have any good points ? Bring back Macnamara , 10 years older and 10 times better .

[Colin M]

That was the least of your worries.

You should be far more concerned about your manager putting so much stock in guys he's picked up from mid to lower table SPL sides. Brown, McDonald and Killen may have potential but they're miles out of their depth at that level.

You should also ask why your big name players, Nakamura and JVH, offer so little in the games where you need them to make an impact.

[NEVERBELIEVER]

Colin M, on Sep 18 2007, 22:59, said:

That was the least of your worries.

You should be far more concerned about your manager putting so much stock in guys he's picked up from mid to lower table SPL sides. Brown, McDonald and Killen may have potential but they're miles out of their depth at that level.

You should also ask why your big name players, Nakamura and JVH, offer so little in the games where you need them to make an impact.

Colin , Do you really think that the old firm ahave any real ambition of winning a euro trophy mate ?I dont , its all about the money and keeping ahead in the spl ." WINNING IT "is all lip service , Celtic have a squad capable of caneing anyone in Scotland , but can never win the big one in europe , I honestly accepted that years ago when the gers were the wipping boys of europe during the 9 in a row era . MONEY TALKS ,,,,and the OF are paupers in european terms ...Wilson however isnt good enough for a celtic team playing in the spl ................hes shite .

[Chris]

Colin M, on Sep 18 2007, 22:59, said:

That was the least of your worries.

You should be far more concerned about your manager putting so much stock in guys he's picked up from mid to lower table SPL sides. Brown, McDonald and Killen may have potential but they're miles out of their depth at that level.

Wilson is exactly that.

And Brown is in a different league from the players mentioned.

Didn't watch the game tonight, have no interest in it. But for what it's worth, I've always thought Wilson was utter shite, it was beyond me how he used to get a game for Scotland U21s, every time I saw him he was gash.

[LordHawHaw]

Glasgowjag, on Sep 18 2007, 23:13, said:

Celtic were up against a better side, that said there wasnt a huge gulf between the sides and if Celtic could have raised there game just a bit in the first 15 mins it could have been different

Naylor is woeful, also i dont see what Wilson offers that make him so highly rated, he is an alright player but up against quality an he gets found out

Donati had a good game, he really looks the part, Brown while a good player is in danger of becoming vastly overatted and certainly didnt produce the goods tonight, Nakamura had a poor game by his standards but still managed to hold onto the ball quite well and not gift away possesion too easily

up front McDonald looked lively.

I think it was always a big ask to get something from this game but they really gave themselves a mountain to climb by conceding the initiative right from the kick off and gifting shaktar possesion which they used to full effect, despite plenty of possesion you still felt if anyone would score it would be shaktar because they seemed to be capable of creating space on the counter and seemed capable of openiong celtic up, Celtic lacked any cutting edge and had really no options to come off the bench except maybe for McGeady who can be hit or miss.

Fuk me a decent post on here, both full back are poor and this area should have been addressed close season, themain reason we got humped was losing two early goals, set the pattern for the whole game

[NEVERBELIEVER]

LordHawHaw, on Sep 18 2007, 23:20, said:

Fuk me a decent post on here, both full back are poor and this area should have been addressed close season, themain reason we got humped was losing two early goals, set the pattern for the whole game

NO THE REASON WE GOT BEAT WAS COS THEY WERE BETTER AND STRONGER ALL OVER THE PARK. ..MCMANUS IS THE ONLY CLASS DEFENDER WE HAVE . WE ALSO DONT HAVE A STRONG PHYSICAL FORWARD RUNNING MIDFIELDER OR TOP STRIKER ..VOH IS A COMPLETE NON TRIER .

[LordHawHaw]

NEVERBELIEVER, on Sep 18 2007, 23:27, said:

NO THE REASON WE GOT BEAT WAS COS THEY WERE BETTER AND STRONGER ALL OVER THE PARK. ..MCMANUS IS THE ONLY CLASS DEFENDER WE HAVE . WE ALSO DONT HAVE A STRONG PHYSICAL FORWARD RUNNING MIDFIELDER OR TOP STRIKER ..VOH IS A COMPLETE NON TRIER .

We beaten better teams for years, did you really think that we were a better team than Shaktar before the game? because I did not, Moscow were also a better team that us and we beat them to the CL. We lost two stupid early goals that we never recovered from, we settled down after 20 minutes and moving Hartley, second half they played at least one gear below what they could have...we offered nothing, the full backs were terrible, naka had a poor night and big jan's not been doing it at all this season IMO.

This is the level we are at, I've seen much worse...we'll drive the team on against Milan and even although they are a better team we might nick something, football not just about winning

[Colin M]

Chris, on Sep 18 2007, 23:10, said:

Wilson is exactly that.

The point is, he's not the guy they're relying on to create chances to score. Celtic didn't fail to compete because of their right back.

Quote

And Brown is in a different league from the players mentioned.

Didn't watch the game tonight.

Brown was completely out of his depth, which you'd have seen if you'd watched the game, rather than basing opinions on reputation and SPL performances. He perhaps will be better than those players, but he is nowhere near the level needed to go and run a midfield against a team who have far better players than Celtic. They are expecting far too much too soon from him at that level.

NEVERBELIEVER - if your only ambition is to win the SPL then why on earth would you get worked up about having Mark Wilson in the team in a CL game

[arab_joe]

NEVERBELIEVER, on Sep 18 2007, 22:55, said:

I can handle losing 2-0 to a team far better than Celtic On the night , what I cant handle is watching the worst right back to play for Celtic in the last 15 years ..the player is shite , and never good enough for Celtic . Does the guy have any good points ? Bring back Macnamara , 10 years older and 10 times better .

Absolute tosser... Wilson was doing about 3 players defending for much of the game last night- when the reshuffle moved Hartley into the middle, who was left infront of Wilson?? His distribution at times yesterday was very poor, but then again so was Scott Browns and Nakamuras- are these also players not good enough for Celtic? Mark Wilson will at some point be a Scotland regular- with a few seasons at full fitness under his belt.

[H_B]

Glasgowjag, on Sep 19 2007, 10:37, said:

he is an average player who does the basics right, pretty disciplined and can be solid against weak opposition but i have never seen what he gives a team to make him so highly rated,

Agreed. He is an SPL player for me, like Naylor. Not good enough.

On Celtic, they are paying the price at European level for having second rate forwards, as I suggested they would pre season. couldn't believe they bought Killen and McDonald to play at that level. Crazy.

This post has been edited by Hieronymous_Bosch: 19 September 2007 - 10:17

[pollymac]

Hieronymous_Bosch, on Sep 19 2007, 11:15, said:

Agreed. He is an SPL player for me, like Naylor. Not good enough.

On Celtic, they are paying the price at European level for having second rate forwards, as I suggested they would pre season. couldn't believe they bought Killen and McDonald to play at that level. Crazy.

The irony in that is that they were linked with Lucarelli during the summer

....and Torres and Huntelaar and Pele and Puskas and ..och you get the picture

[NEVERBELIEVER]

arab_joe, on Sep 19 2007, 10:10, said:

Absolute tosser... Wilson was doing about 3 players defending for much of the game last night- when the reshuffle moved Hartley into the middle, who was left infront of Wilson?? His distribution at times yesterday was very poor, but then again so was Scott Browns and Nakamuras- are these also players not good enough for Celtic? Mark Wilson will at some point be a Scotland regular- with a few seasons at full fitness under his belt.

open your eyes . Wilson is a LIABILITY WHO WAS AT FAULT FOR BOTH SPARTAK GOALS AS WELL , the guy has no positional sense , cant run and lacks fire in a 50-50 tackle . MARK WILSON FOR SCOTLAND ? WHAT INSTEAD OF HUTTON OR ALEXANDER ? thats hardly proof he's a decent player is it ? .........BIN HIM NOW BEFORE IT'S TO LATE . PS AS FOR SCOTT BROWN ? GOOD PLAYER BUT MORE HYPE THAN A GIRLS ALOUD CD MATE .

[DomDom]

I thought Brown looked absolutely fine last night. Certainly didn't look to be out of his depth. McDonald was also getting onto the game, and taking him off seemed like a dumbass move at the time to me, as he was one of the main creative guys behind the Celtic attacks, and there were a few after the disallowed goal.

[Colin M]

DomDom, on Sep 19 2007, 13:53, said:

I thought Brown looked absolutely fine last night. Certainly didn't look to be out of his depth.

There was wave after wave of Shaktar attacks last night as the breezed through Celtic's midfield. At the other end, Brown (who is supposedly Celtic's attacking midfielder) created absolutely nothing.

He also picked up a stupid booking and was nearly wound up enough to the point of being sent off. The guy has a long way to go before he's going to look good against players at that level.

[Colin M]

Gallacticos, on Sep 20 2007, 01:15, said:

I'm disappointed that all the blame is being laid on Celtic's young Scottish players who have virtually no experience in the Champions League.

No, I think the blame should be laid squarely at the feet of the following two players: Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink and Shunsuke Nakamura.

That's exactly what I'm saying though - it's those players who should be stepping up and Nakamura in particular doesn't dominate a game like that. The young guys are being expected to do more than they're capable of - perhaps over time Brown will be a big player on that stage but he isn't yet!

In terms of actual "blame" though, I'd be pointing the finger at the board and management who crow about profits and impressive "net spend", when they could have been investing in better players, rather than going into a CL campaign relying on players they've picked up from mid to lower SPL teams.

[H_B]

Gallacticos, on Sep 20 2007, 01:15, said:

Nakamura is eternally frustrating. He scrapes pass marks from me because every time he was on the ball he found a man in his own team.

Nakamura is an excellent footballer, for that reason. Strachan should play him in the middle, rather than out wide.

Quote

On another note, Scott McDonald has been the best summer signing so far. He hasn't had a bad game yet. Wish Brown and Donati could say the same.

McDonald was dire on Tuesday. The reason Shaktar played 2 against 2 at the back was because they had so little respect for Celtic's front 2. And rightly so.

And Mark Wilson was at least as bad as Naylor. They were both abysmal.

This post has been edited by Hieronymous_Bosch: 20 September 2007 - 08:21

[H_B]

Gallacticos, on Sep 20 2007, 12:48, said:

Er. Most teams play 4-4-2 with two centre-halves against two strikers.

Err yes, but most teams have full backs that tuck in though.

As Billy Dodds noted last night, Shaktar's full backs were given license to play as wingers, as they were comfortable Celtic's front two would cause them no problems, as they didn't. That's why they were able to overrun Celtic in midfield, and partly explains why Celtic's wide midfielders were so ineffective.

Celtic's full backs played very much as full back. big difference.

Quote

He never lacks workrate or effort.

He lacks pace and height though. I don't think he will score goals at this level. I am aware he did against Spartak, but I wouldn't count on many more.

[arab_joe]

NEVERBELIEVER, on Sep 19 2007, 13:49, said:

open your eyes . Wilson is a LIABILITY WHO WAS AT FAULT FOR BOTH SPARTAK GOALS AS WELL , the guy has no positional sense , cant run and lacks fire in a 50-50 tackle . MARK WILSON FOR SCOTLAND ? WHAT INSTEAD OF HUTTON OR ALEXANDER ? thats hardly proof he's a decent player is it ? .........BIN HIM NOW BEFORE IT'S TO LATE . PS AS FOR SCOTT BROWN ? GOOD PLAYER BUT MORE HYPE THAN A GIRLS ALOUD CD MATE .

My eyes are open; regarding Mark Wilson, they have been open long before you had even heard of him. I watched him come right through Dundee United- he was excellent. He was as good going forward into the right wing channel as any of our midfielders, and at that time was being touted as Scotland material- since then he has been injured a lot, but I have seen othing to suggest that he has gotten any worse.

He was at fault for both of the goals?! Are you joking- the first was a combination of a poor pass from Scott Brown, a horrible touch by McManus and a crazy early dive from Arthur Boruc. No blame at all for Wilson. The second was a fabulous header- the only player who had any chance to stop it was Lee Naylor, who the scorer completely lost.