[Günther]

What fanny says communism works?

You sir, are indeed a total tit. Go and visit some countries like Lithuania, Latvia etc etc. And then you'll see how Communism doesn't work. Those countries are just starting to find their feet after coming out of it. The mess that had to be cleaned up was unreal.

f**k Socialists/Communists!

[vikingTON]

Duff Man, on Sep 16 2007, 18:46, said:

What fanny says communism works?

You sir, are indeed a total tit. Go and visit some countries like Lithuania, Latvia etc etc. And then you'll see how Communism doesn't work. Those countries are just starting to find their feet after coming out of it. The mess that had to be cleaned up was unreal.

f**k Socialists/Communists!

Or you could try visiting Cuba - a successful small Communist state despite the totally illegal blockade by the "home of the free" and "land of democracy" that is the USA.
Without communism and Tito in Yugoslavia, the nationalist racists caused the atrocities in Bosnia, Croatia and later Kosovo.
The mess in a communist state occurs when it is dismantled, not when it is in place.
Once the American economy collapses due to the complete worthlessness of the dollar, then you'll long for the days of socialism again.

[ClydeSI]

DEX_Doonhamer, on Sep 16 2007, 13:11, said:

That's what I was thinking as well. All the experts are saying there isn't a problem and that it's likely that NR will now be taken over. So surely buying some rock bottom shares would be a good move?

NR shares were £12.50 odd in January, closed at £4.38 on Friday.

I have £2k that will go into them if they hit £3.50- £4.00.

I reckon they will get taken over by the end of the year for £6.50 to £7.50 a share.

[Günther]

vikingTON, on Sep 16 2007, 19:05, said:

Or you could try visiting Cuba - a successful small Communist state despite the totally illegal blockade by the "home of the free" and "land of democracy" that is the USA.
Without communism and Tito in Yugoslavia, the nationalist racists caused the atrocities in Bosnia, Croatia and later Kosovo.
The mess in a communist state occurs when it is dismantled, not when it is in place.
Once the American economy collapses due to the complete worthlessness of the dollar, then you'll long for the days of socialism again.

Is this why Cuban people are so poorly paid? Live in slums? Have no national welfare system? The place is a shitehole except the touristy parts.

If yer that smart, visit countries like Lithuania, and ask them what their quality of life was like back then? They'll tell you yer a fucking arsehole. Actually, go and ask someone in Possilpark or shiteholes like it, and ask them what it's like to live there. Take away the ability of free education, welfare state etc. It'll sound like they live in a communist state

[vikingTON]

Duff Man, on Sep 16 2007, 19:38, said:

Is this why Cuban people are so poorly paid? Live in slums? Have no national welfare system? The place is a shitehole except the touristy parts.

If yer that smart, visit countries like Lithuania, and ask them what their quality of life was like back then? They'll tell you yer a fucking arsehole. Actually, go and ask someone in Possilpark or shiteholes like it, and ask them what it's like to live there. Take away the ability of free education, welfare state etc. It'll sound like they live in a communist state

Hmm, I believe Cuba's standard of living is above that of most Latin American countries.
In fact, I think their literacy rate was actually better than the USA itself.

Sorry, the last part is a complete contradiction - Possilpark was the work of capitalism, no?
As far as I know, Britain was never a communist state but supposedly there's all these poor, impoverished illiterates roaming the schemes.
Capitalism made those shiteholes.
Shouldn't you be burning homosexuals at the stake or something anyway?

This post has been edited by vikingTON: 16 September 2007 - 18:43

[vikingTON]

ClydeSI, on Sep 16 2007, 19:17, said:

NR shares were £12.50 odd in January, closed at £4.38 on Friday.

I have £2k that will go into them if they hit £3.50- £4.00.

I reckon they will get taken over by the end of the year for £6.50 to £7.50 a share.

Supposedly lloyds are lining up a takeover on the cheap according to Sunday Times.
It has to be merged with another bank - it has no credibility left.
I don't blame people for taking their money out - if there's any possible risk to their money, then its best to pull out.

[Rowan]

ClydeSI, on Sep 16 2007, 19:17, said:

NR shares were £12.50 odd in January, closed at £4.38 on Friday.

I have £2k that will go into them if they hit £3.50- £4.00.

I reckon they will get taken over by the end of the year for £6.50 to £7.50 a share.

I have a grand I was going to put in an ISA but that may well be a better idea. Thanks

[Ziggy]

Duff Man, on Sep 16 2007, 19:38, said:

Is this why Cuban people are so poorly paid? Live in slums? Have no national welfare system? The place is a shitehole except the touristy parts.

I think that its unfair to judge the validity of communism on the state of cuba when they have had to contend with economic sanctions enforced by USA & co.

[H_B]

vikingTON, on Sep 16 2007, 19:49, said:

It has to be merged with another bank - it has no credibility left.

Why does it have no credibility left?

[vikingTON]

Ziggy, on Sep 16 2007, 19:51, said:

I think that its unfair to judge the validity of communism on the state of cuba when they have had to contend with economic sanctions enforced by USA & co.

Quite.

[ClydeSI]

Rowan, on Sep 16 2007, 19:51, said:

I have a grand I was going to put in an ISA but that may well be a better idea. Thanks

Please note that ClydeSI's thoughts in no way represent financial advice. The value of your shares can go up as well as down. Blah, blah, blah

[orlandoblue]

vikingTON, on Sep 16 2007, 19:49, said:

if there's any possible risk to their money, then its best to pull out.

That's the point. I don't really think there is in this case.

[Gaz]

I worked in Customer Retention for Prudential for two years until the end of July.

A lot of people are thick when it comes to money. There are a lot of people that are very smart with their money, but there are a lot who aren't. The ones who aren't tend to panic at the slightest change in the markets.

We had people phone up who were pulling their £100k out of bonds earning 9% net PA to put it into bank accounts paying 2% gross becase "old Ina from across the street had to pay £3 inheritance tax when her mum died and there's no way that's happening to me" and so "they could go to the bank and get a statement whenever they wanted", losing about £6k of interest a year.

[Swarley]

Wise words from Martin Lewis

Quote

If you’ve got money in Northern Rock, you’re justifiably worried. The media coverage looks like this will be the first 'run' on a bank for years. Northern Rock customers have been queuing outside the bank and the website is struggling to pay out cash. Everyone’s got lots of questions, hopefully this emergency Q&A will answer them.

Q. What’s caused all this? Should we be panicking?

A. The original cause of this was that Northern Rock decided for safety’s sake to open up what is effectively an overdraft facility with the Bank of England. It did this because the US credit crunch means it's difficult for banks to borrow money from other financial institutions at the moment, so it wanted the facility just in case it needed it.

As yet it hasn't used the facility either, it's just there for emergencies. Though this did result in its share price dropping as if it did need to use it, borrowing would be expensive because the Bank of England imposes a penalty. All in all, this wasn’t such a big deal for customers, more for the markets; yet it ended up on the front page of the newspapers and that's where the problems started.

The media coverage meant panic. People started queuing outside branches or trying to withdraw money on the web. Add this to the fact that Northern Rock’s website couldn’t deal with the demand to withdraw cash and you get a siege mentality. Rather than thinking, “there’s heavy demand so the website is struggling�, worry sets in and they think “they’re deliberately stopping me getting my cash�. Add all this together and what wasn’t in reality a problem suddenly becomes a serious issue for the bank.


Q. Is Northern Rock going to collapse?

A. That’s unthinkably unlikely, though nothing is impossible. The whole reason it opened up the facility with the Bank of England was to allow it to function normally if there was a shortage of borrowing. This means it has access to literally unlimited cash and that’s some pretty good protection.

Plus the facts behind why Northern Rock is the only bank who requested the borrowing facility may end up being its saving grace. When a bank wants to lend you cash for mortgages or loans, in simple terms the funds for this borrowing come from one of two places; either other customers' savings or the financial markets.

Northern Rock tends to use the financial markets more than other banks, which is why when these funds got short it was the first to need the overdraft facility. Yet the current problem is that many people are withdrawing their cash, but by definition Northern Rock is less dependent on savers' cash than other institutions which is a positive thing when so many people are trying to withdraw these savings.

Overall it’s enormously unlikely any customers will lose cash out of this. Far more likely is that with Northern Rock’s share price plummeting, it will be any easy takeover target for a big bank and it’ll be sold on.


Q: If I’ve got savings with Northern Rock what should I do?

A. Don’t panic! While nothing’s impossible, the chances of Northern Rock going bust are still smaller than Accrington Stanley winning the FA cup; the whole point of the original overdraft facility was to allow it unlimited access to funds.

Yet the most important thing to remember is that if the vastly improbably did happen and it did go bust, all money in UK savings accounts is protected thanks to the official Financial Services Compensation Scheme. This means that you’d get everything up to the first £2,000 back in full - and then 90 per cent of the next £33,000. So if you’ve under £35,000 there’s not much to worry about.

However if you’ve substantially more money than that in there, and you want peace of mind, I would consider taking the remainder out. Not specifically because of the problems, but because above that amount you're not protected. The same logic applies to any bank.

It’s also worth noting, most of Northern Rock’s accounts aren’t best buys, so whilst there’s no need to move your cash, you can get better deals elsewhere. Just don’t withdraw huge wads of cash, that ain’t safe; do a bank transfer instead, see the Top Savings Accounts article.

Q: What is the situation if I have a cash ISA/ Tessa only ISA with Northern Rock?

A: These have exactly the same protection as savings accounts, and its impossible for you to have more than £35,000 in a cash ISA so the worry is limited. It's also important to note that if you were to withdraw money from an ISA, you lose the tax-free status so you need to be very careful. If you do want to move to a new better cash ISA provider, then its very important you get the new provider to transfer the money for you, so that you keep the tax-free status. For more on this read the top cash-ISA or top Toisa (Tessa only ISA) articles.


Q: Is the UK about to plunge into a banking crisis – am I safe with any bank?

A: As long as everyone is sensible, this shouldn’t happen. Think about it, if people are withdrawing money from Northern Rock, that cash has to go somewhere – and that means other banks – as I hope people aren’t shoving it under the mattress.

Yet if you do want complete peace of mind, remember you’re protected up to £35,000 in each bank, so as I’ve noted for Northern Rock customers you could spread it around a bit to avoid over exposure. See Top Savings Accounts article.


Q: I’ve got a Northern Rock mortgage – what about my home?

A: Remember, you owe them money, so there’s even less of a problem! Just keep the payments as normal, the bank will be very happy – don’t forget they REALLY want your cash to keep coming in!

Q: Is it true that true all mortgages are going to get more expensive because of this?

Look at the facts. The amount banks have to pay to borrow has risen dramatically, as there’s a shortage of cash. Have you ever known a bank try not to snatch every penny off its customers if it’s paying more? This means it’s likely the mortgage rates offered will go up on the back of this.

Yet most people needn’t panic. If you are on an existing mortgage special offer deal (such as a 2 year discount or fixed rate) then your rate is already set and won’t change, full stop.

The people who need act are the estimated 250,000 whose fixed mortgage deals will end during the rest of this year. If that’s you, listen hard…. you need to get up off your backside and sort out a new cheap deal as soon as possible to avoid the rises. Even if your mortgage isn’t up for review until December, many companies will let you fix the rate now. To get the cheapest deal read the full Remortgage Guide.

Q. What about loans and credit cards; will I be fleeced there too?

If you already have a personal loan, the rate is fixed so no need to worry. Yet if you need to get a loan, rates are rising rapidly so again, the sooner you act the better, see the Cheapest Loans article. As for credit cards, they’re already so ridiculously expensive compared to the cost that banks borrow, there’s likely to be little change.

[Günther]

vikingTON, on Sep 16 2007, 19:43, said:

Hmm, I believe Cuba's standard of living is above that of most Latin American countries.
In fact, I think their literacy rate was actually better than the USA itself.

Sorry, the last part is a complete contradiction - Possilpark was the work of capitalism, no?
As far as I know, Britain was never a communist state but supposedly there's all these poor, impoverished illiterates roaming the schemes.
Capitalism made those shiteholes.
Shouldn't you be burning homosexuals at the stake or something anyway?

Possilpark obviously has never been communist, but if you look at the place you'd think it was...

[qpsnapper]

ClydeSI, on Sep 16 2007, 19:17, said:

NR shares were £12.50 odd in January, closed at £4.38 on Friday.

I have £2k that will go into them if they hit £3.50- £4.00.

I reckon they will get taken over by the end of the year for £6.50 to £7.50 a share.

Well they've fallen to £3.20 at the moment (under £3.00 at one stage this morning).

Although I doubt they'll be taken over for as much as £6.50/£7.50 as their brand has been ruined by this and everyone knows they're desperate to sell the business.

[Whistle Blower]

My savings are all ready to be moved into a NR account, as they will have fantastic rates to entice new customers at no risk*.

*As I understand it 100% of the first £3K is secure, as is 90% of the next £30K.

[ClydeSI]

qpsnapper, on Sep 17 2007, 09:23, said:

Well they've fallen to £3.20 at the moment (under £3.00 at one stage this morning).

Although I doubt they'll be taken over for as much as £6.50/£7.50 as their brand has been ruined by this and everyone knows they're desperate to sell the business.

£2.94 now. Must admit that the sharp drop this morning has left me in 2 minds.

£6.50 now does seem a bit far off and hopeful. I will give it till lunchtime and see what happens.....

It wont be much to do with the brand though - the value will be guaged on their mortgage book.

[Gaz]

£2.98 the now.

Hmm, very tempting...

[Death warmed up]

The shares are decent value and buying them now and speculating that a takeover will happen is a fair bet.

However, don't assume that you will be made a decent offer for them. Beggers won't be choosers if another insitution comes in as any offer would be likely to be accepted by long term shareholders.

[Gaz]

Good food for thought chief. However I reckon the vast majority of people who still have shares (i.e. those who haven't already sold them) are not in a "beggars" position and so won't just accept the first piddly offer that comes along. They'll be holding on for a substantial offer to be made.