[pollymac]

The_Judge, on Sep 14 2007, 13:18, said:

I don't believe it would, in my view there's already more chance of the big clubs forming their own competition than there is of reverting to the old ways and I'm partly to blame in that I'd rather watch Spanish runners up Barcelona play Italian runners up Milan than watch the champions of Finland play the champions of Belgium. Sorry.

I was wondering what the stats for teams like these meeting in European competition are, in terms of the number of times they've faced each other. I wonder if it starts to get a bit tedious for some fans?

I have to agree with that as well, I can't see the format ever being changed to suit the lesser nations as there just isn't a market for it and if Uefa started to dilute the quality it wouldn't be long before the TV companies would be diluting the money. This would lead to an inevitable split, which would rake in fcuking vast sums of money from TV companies.

Can you imagine each Saturday? You would get at least one or two matches that would pit two previous Champions League/European Cup winners against each other. And that's even before you take into account the 'derby' matches like Milan v Inter, Barcelona v Real, Lyon v Marseille, ManU v Liverpool, Chelski v Arsehole, Brechin v Montrose etc

[deky]

As long as it's called the "Champions" League then yes, every country within Europe shoould have their Champions in the group stages, no matter how didy the league, even the League of Ireland. For 2nd placed teams from the "big" countries going straight into the group stages makes a mockery of the Champions tag.
If UEFA want a big is beautiful league with only the rich or with teams who would attract large tv audiences then fair enough but be done with your CL pish and just have a Euro super league.

[HibeeJibee]

arabrad, what you want is essentially what we had in the 1950s and 1960s:
- the European Cup, knock-out, contested by the winners of each association. Thus effectively Malta and Andorra had the same combined entrants, as say Spain and Germany did.
- the UEFA Cup was a single-entry competition, for a couple of clubs from each country.

Now, while I don't think the current system if wonderful, surely its a lot better? Clubs are rewarded for Fair Play, we have effectively a 'repechage' tournament in the form of the InterToto which at the same time is really just part of the UEFA Cup. The dropping down is also OK in my book, at least the CL Q2 --> UC R1 is. Maybe scrap the third placed CL group clubs dropping down. Not having a Cup-Winners Cup is also a good idea as by the 1990s that tournament was effectively the worst of the three, even before the CL proper started out.

[AyrshireTon]

Last time septic got turned over by Shaktar (3-0 I think), I was in Galway with my wife. The local TV channel showed the game, but I only caught the after match studio stuff (they seemed annoyed that the hoops lost).

Pundit "But Celtic are top of the league right now"
Host "But they're top of a mickey-mouse league"

My wife came in wondering what I was doing rolling around on the floor.

See- even the Irish reckon our league is diddy, and their sides normally achieve less than fcuk-all in Europe.

Not even big fish in a small pond, they're minnows in a filthy puddle.

[HibeeJibee]

Shelbourne are the only team in decades to do anything, which was getting to the last qualifying round of the Champions League. Who knows when the last time a team from either Ireland reached the First Round proper of the Champions League or UEFA Cup. Even the Welsh have managed it now and again.

[Forest_Fifer]

deky, on Sep 18 2007, 14:55, said:

As long as it's called the "Champions" League then yes, every country within Europe shoould have their Champions in the group stages, no matter how didy the league, even the League of Ireland. For 2nd placed teams from the "big" countries going straight into the group stages makes a mockery of the Champions tag.
If UEFA want a big is beautiful league with only the rich or with teams who would attract large tv audiences then fair enough but be done with your CL pish and just have a Euro super league.

Given that UEFA has 53 members, it would make the group stage a bit unwieldy. You'd still need some kind of qualifiers.

The basic problem is that the CL has too many teams from the big nations, so there's no room for anyone else. Move some of them into the UEFA Cup, call it the Champions League 2 if you like.

[pollymac]

HibeeJibee, on Sep 19 2007, 15:11, said:

Shelbourne are the only team in decades to do anything, which was getting to the last qualifying round of the Champions League. Who knows when the last time a team from either Ireland reached the First Round proper of the Champions League or UEFA Cup. Even the Welsh have managed it now and again.

Didn't Derry City get to the first round proper last season? I'll let you work out which country the team they put out in the 2nd qualifying round came from.

[orlandoblue]

YES

Champions league

That is all.

[Kincardine]

HibeeJibee, on Sep 19 2007, 02:33, said:

arabrad, what you want is essentially what we had in the 1950s and 1960s:
- the European Cup, knock-out, contested by the winners of each association. Thus effectively Malta and Andorra had the same combined entrants, as say Spain and Germany did.
- the UEFA Cup was a single-entry competition, for a couple of clubs from each country.

Now, while I don't think the current system if wonderful, surely its a lot better? Clubs are rewarded for Fair Play, we have effectively a 'repechage' tournament in the form of the InterToto which at the same time is really just part of the UEFA Cup. The dropping down is also OK in my book, at least the CL Q2 --> UC R1 is. Maybe scrap the third placed CL group clubs dropping down. Not having a Cup-Winners Cup is also a good idea as by the 1990s that tournament was effectively the worst of the three, even before the CL proper started out.

Just a minor correction here. In the 50s the was The European Cup and the Fairs Cup. In the 60s the Cup Winners Cup was added. The UEFA cup didn't start until 1971 and replaced the CWC and the Fairs Cup.

[HibeeJibee]

Kincardine, on Sep 20 2007, 11:26, said:

Just a minor correction here. In the 50s the was The European Cup and the Fairs Cup. In the 60s the Cup Winners Cup was added. The UEFA cup didn't start until 1971 and replaced the CWC and the Fairs Cup.

If you're going to correct someone, do it right.

The European Cup started in 1955. It was renamed the Champions League in 1993, although it had contained a group stage since 1991. From 1997 the competition was opened up to clubs from major nations which hadn't won their national premier division.

The Cup-Winners Cup started in 1960. It was abandoned in 1999, after the effect of admitting those runners-up (and later 3rd and 4th place) clubs diminished its entrants pool.

The Inter-Cities like the Europen Cup started in 1955. It came under UEFA supervision in 1971, renamed the UEFA Cup. Until 1960, only 1 club from each city could enter. The initial competition lasted 3 years, and the second competition 2 years, and some cities entered select sides. There was a groupstage in the first competition, and since 2004. Since 1995 2/3/then 11 InterToto Cup clubs have entered. Fair Play clubs (1 from 1995-1997, 3 from 1998 onwards) also enter the cup.

The Intercontinental Football Cup started in 1961. It came under UEFA supervision in 1995 as the InterToto Cup. The competition involed groupstages then knock-out, however from 1967 the knock-out rounds were abandoned and only the groupstages played. After coming under UEFA control, and becoming a qualifying cup for the UEFA Cup, it had groupstages and knockout from 1995-1997, after which it became straight knock-out.

The SuperCup was first played in 1972, and it came under UEFA supervision in 1973. It was originally between the European and Cup-Winners Cup victors, however following the scrapping of the latter competition the UEFA Cup winner qualifies instead.

The Regions Cup was first played in 1998, and is held every 2 years. It brings together amateur teams (clubs, regions, or entire countries) based on a standard population unit. (Scotland enters regional selects). It is effectively a reformed UEFA Amateur Cup, which was a clubs-only competition competed for from 1966 to 1978 inclusive.

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 20 September 2007 - 13:56

[deky]

Bhoys67, on Sep 21 2007, 03:37, said:

SPL should have 1 team in the CL 1st round qualifying....clubs 2-3 into UEFA CUP no more then that, the clubs are not really good enough

So the next time Rangers win the league you'll be happy to see Celtic in the uefa cup because they're not good enough?

[Lordofthewing]

deky, on Sep 21 2007, 10:32, said:

So the next time Rangers win the league you'll be happy to see Celtic in the uefa cup because they're not good enough?

Well they are his real team

[deky]

Lordofthewing, on Sep 21 2007, 10:34, said:

Well they are his real team

Does he have a real team though.
I'm not convinced it's a real brain he's using.

[pollymac]

Considering two Scottish clubs had to qualify for the CL (and did qualify), Bhoys67 plan is obviously as stupid as he is. Clearly there are two Scottish teams that are capable of negotiating the latter stages of the qualifying rounds. Making one them start from round 1 (v Andorra league winners? ) isn't going to change the fact that they'll more than likely qualify anyway.

Next up, the plan to put an OF team into the Uefa Cup: Given that the OF have repeatedly shafted teams in that competition in the early stages*, you can clearly see Bhoys67 limited knowledge shining through like the beacon of piss as per.

* examples:
Amika Wronki 0-5 Rangers
Rangers 3-0 Sturm Graz
Celtic 10-1 Suduva (agg.)
Rangers 7-2 Dinamo Moscow (agg)

In the few years I remember UEFA putting Celtic into Uefa Cup qualifiers (which is where they would be placed if Scotland only had 3 teams in Europe) they've scored 7, 8, 10 & 11 goals against their opponents (the 7 & 8 coming in the same season 97/98**).
F'k me, even Dundee United have notched up 17 goals in a Uefa Cup qualifier (agg.) in 97/98**


** Scotland were ranked 26th in Europe at that time and are now provisionally 11th, so our standard has improved dramatically. Imagine how the OF would get on in the 1st qualifying round of the Uefa Cup?

Bhoys67 =

This post has been edited by pollymac: 21 September 2007 - 12:38

[Lordofthewing]

pollymac, on Sep 21 2007, 13:37, said:

Considering two Scottish clubs had to qualify for the CL (and did qualify), Bhoys67 plan is obviously as stupid as he is.
Bhoys67 =

Now now. Nothing or no-one could be as stupid as Bawjaws67.

[HibeeJibee]

Scotland are 10th for 2008/2009. Which doesn't change anything.

If we got to 9th at some point, actually likely if anyone in after Christmas, we'd still get 2/2/1 but:
- GroupStage and Q3, not Q3 and and Q2, for the Champions League
- R1 and A2 for UEFA Cup, as now
- R2(SF) for the InterToto Cup, as now

If we got to 8th at some point, possible if anyone in after Xmas 2 years running,we'd get 2/4/1:
- GroupStage and Q3, for the Champions League
- 4 x R1 for the UEFA Cup
- R3(FINAL) for the InterToto Cup