[cmontheloknow]

HibeeJibee, on May 1 2007, 18:59, said:

Tell me btw, do the juniors West still have an gate price cap - either a minimum or a maximum?

League prices are set at £5 and £2.50 for the two Superleagues, and £4 and £2 (I think, or it might be £1 for concessions) at the District League level. Clubs cannot charge more for league games.

Junior Cup ties are set at a minimum of £4 and £2 before the Quarter-Finals, rising to £5 in the quarters and £7 in the semis.

[HibeeJibee]

I think that is one of the great positives of the Juniors, i.e. that they can show a decent standard of football at half the price of the SFL. Its £10 adults and £5 concessions for Berwick, although they have a system whereby U-14 or U-13 (can't remember which) cardholders get in for £2. The terracing and seated stand both cost the same, but that's because there is only one turnstile block!! Most other grounds will charge around £9 standing and £10 seating for adults, and roughly half that for kids. Most have OAP rates as well, and sometimes students.

For last season (because no Scottish Football Review this season):
- highest adult walk-up in First Division £18 at St Johnstone, lowest was £12 Brechin + QotS
- highest adult walk-up in Second Division £14 Ayr Utd, lowest was £9 Stirling Albion
- highest adult walk-up in Third Division £11 East Stirling + Elgin, lowest was £9 at various

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 01 May 2007 - 22:14

[Loki]

HibeeJibee, on May 1 2007, 23:13, said:

For last season (because no Scottish Football Review this season):
- highest adult walk-up in First Division £18 at St Johnstone, lowest was £12 Brechin + QotS
- highest adult walk-up in Second Division £14 Ayr Utd, lowest was £9 Stirling Albion
- highest adult walk-up in Third Division £11 East Stirling + Elgin, lowest was £9 at various

County was £12 as well, and was the same this season.

[HibeeJibee]

The SFL Handbook for 2005-2006 states:
- charges in First Division to be minimum £12 Adults and £6 Juveniles/OAPs
- charges in Second Division to be minimum £10 and £5
- charges in Third Division to be minimum £9 and £4.50
- charges in Reserve League to be minimum £1 and 50p (unless agreed to be wavered)

So not many clubs are 'ripping off' fans by charging way above the minimums really are they.

[cmontheloknow]

HibeeJibee, on May 3 2007, 03:27, said:

The SFL Handbook for 2005-2006 states:
- charges in First Division to be minimum £12 Adults and £6 Juveniles/OAPs
- charges in Second Division to be minimum £10 and £5
- charges in Third Division to be minimum £9 and £4.50
- charges in Reserve League to be minimum £1 and 50p (unless agreed to be wavered)

So not many clubs are 'ripping off' fans by charging way above the minimums really are they.

Someone told me in another thread that there was no such thing as a minimum price in the Scottish League when I suggested that Junior fans wouldn't interested in price hikes from the current £4/£5.

[cmontheloknow]

Five and Twenty Past, on May 3 2007, 09:22, said:

The only comparison I can make is using pre-season friendlies but Haddington Athletic (3rd tier East) played 3 of the EoS top flight last summer

Haddington 4 - 1 Lothian Thistle
Edinburgh Uni 2 - 2 Haddington
Haddington 3 - 2 Preston

I'm not sure how much you can make out of those results - but I'd assume that clubs like Pollock would put Haddington to the sword whereas I'd fancy Haddington's chances against pretty much anyone in the EoS

We played both Threave Rovers (2002) and Annan Athletic (2004) in pre-season and beat them both, the former with a makeshift side of new signings and never-to-be-seen-again trialists 3-0 at Castle Douglas and the latter we grinded out a 1-0 win at Galabank.

Neither Annan or Threave impressed me that much - I remarked in the Threave report that they "looked not unlike our usual Junior opponents but let themselves down in the final third of the pitch, and I cannot recall a single effort on goal from the home side." They had finished 4th in the East of Scotland Premier Division at the end of the previous season. Annan were also 4th in East of Scotland League shortly before we played them.

[HibeeJibee]

cmontheloknow, on May 3 2007, 07:58, said:

Someone told me in another thread that there was no such thing as a minimum price in the Scottish League when I suggested that Junior fans wouldn't interested in price hikes from the current £4/£5.

In fact it may even have been myself. I took that excerpt from an old post on BBC FansForum. Having looked at the handbook 'in the flesh' it actually states they are guideline amounts - although in practice no SFL club charges below them, bar some promotional kiddies season tickets. It is possible they have been scrapped entirely, since my handbook is now 2 years old. I can however confirm that in CIS and Challenge Cups, those prices are obligatory minimums (unless special dispensation by the board).

[boardroomshuffler]

I do not think it is fair that any junior club should be permitted to join the Scottish Cup.Preference should be given to members of the Scottish League from SOS,EOS and HL teams.

[Skyline Drifter]

HibeeJibee, on May 3 2007, 03:27, said:

The SFL Handbook for 2005-2006 states:
- charges in First Division to be minimum £12 Adults and £6 Juveniles/OAPs
- charges in Second Division to be minimum £10 and £5
- charges in Third Division to be minimum £9 and £4.50
- charges in Reserve League to be minimum £1 and 50p (unless agreed to be wavered)

So not many clubs are 'ripping off' fans by charging way above the minimums really are they.

cmontheloknow, on May 3 2007, 07:58, said:

Someone told me in another thread that there was no such thing as a minimum price in the Scottish League when I suggested that Junior fans wouldn't interested in price hikes from the current £4/£5.

HibeeJibee, on May 3 2007, 17:16, said:

In fact it may even have been myself. I took that excerpt from an old post on BBC FansForum. Having looked at the handbook 'in the flesh' it actually states they are guideline amounts - although in practice no SFL club charges below them, bar some promotional kiddies season tickets. It is possible they have been scrapped entirely, since my handbook is now 2 years old. I can however confirm that in CIS and Challenge Cups, those prices are obligatory minimums (unless special dispensation by the board).

They are NOT minimums or maximums, they are a guideline, no more, no less. They are NOT "obligatory minimums" for either cup competition either. What they are are guideline prices which will be used in the unlikely event that the two competing teams cannot agree on a pricing structure for a cup tie (prices are those applicable to the higher division team). Clubs are perfectly at liberty to set a lower price if they like provided the opposition agree and certainly plenty of them did last season. We charged a walk up price for u16's of £3 for every game for instance.

[HibeeJibee]

boardroomshuffler, on May 4 2007, 14:07, said:

I do not think it is fair that any junior club should be permitted to join the Scottish Cup.Preference should be given to members of the Scottish League from SOS,EOS and HL teams.

But look at it the other way: teams that are currently in the EoS and SoS leagues but not in the Scottish Cup tend to not have suitable grounds. So excluding the Juniors would just mean more byes. If we are going to have to endure an 'all-in' tournament instead of the Qualifying Cups, then at least make it as credible as we can. The best EoS and SoS can get in anyway, through a high finish in the previous league season.

I also hope by including the juniors we take a first step to re-integrating the associations.

[cmontheloknow]

HibeeJibee, on May 4 2007, 14:51, said:

I also hope by including the juniors we take a first step to re-integrating the associations.

That's the idea. The proposal wouldn't be on the table if the Juniors were not a part of it. It's seen as a tentative first step. Junior football initially evolved as the football arm of more generic sports clubs but it's long since become something that is the equal and in certain ares the better of senior non-league football.

Scottish football is still stuck in 1891 outside of the SFL.

[HibeeJibee]

Cmontheloknow I was wondering if you could fill me in on Welfare FA. Their is nothing about them anywhere on the web or in books that I can find really, bar that they have 500 clubs, and run 2 cups. I've pieced together they are mainly in North-East and North, and that they run a lot of summer seasons, but basically: are they like the Amateur FA, in terms of standard of play and having Saturday leagues, or are they kind of a level below the Amateur FA? Puzzles me really.

The tentative step was supposed to have been years ago when the SFA youth section, most of the SAFA youth sections, and some other bits and bobs joined together to form the Scottish Youth FA. But there are still 1 or 2 regional bodies who stuck with the SAFA, and for some ridiculous reason we insist on having a seperate Scottish Schools FA. Not to mention having a Scottish Womens FA, a Scottish Womens Premier League, a Scottish Womens Football League, and having the womens national efforts under the SFA. We are the laughing stock of Europe.

[cmontheloknow]

HibeeJibee, on May 4 2007, 16:31, said:

Cmontheloknow I was wondering if you could fill me in on Welfare FA. Their is nothing about them anywhere on the web or in books that I can find really, bar that they have 500 clubs, and run 2 cups. I've pieced together they are mainly in North-East and North, and that they run a lot of summer seasons, but basically: are they like the Amateur FA, in terms of standard of play and having Saturday leagues, or are they kind of a level below the Amateur FA? Puzzles me really.

The tentative step was supposed to have been years ago when the SFA youth section, most of the SAFA youth sections, and some other bits and bobs joined together to form the Scottish Youth FA. But there are still 1 or 2 regional bodies who stuck with the SAFA, and for some ridiculous reason we insist on having a seperate Scottish Schools FA. Not to mention having a Scottish Womens FA, a Scottish Womens Premier League, a Scottish Womens Football League, and having the womens national efforts under the SFA. We are the laughing stock of Europe.

Welfare football is probably best described as follows:

"The Scottish Welfare Football Association was instituted in 1918 to help boost the morale of workers after WWI and became affiliated to the SFA later that year.

The two annual national trophies which the Welfare organisation oversees are the Templeton Cup and the Daily Record Trophy and all clubs in membership are eligible to take part.

The S.W.F.A has approximately 500 affiliated teams, competing in either the Summer (April-September) or Winter (August-June) seasons.

Most clubs involved in the Summer competitions are based in the North of Scotland, whilst the Winter contests attract teams from Central Scotland." (SFA website)

So, Welfare football was formed to benefit workers.

There are some clubs in British football that have 'Welfare' as part of the name, which imply they're in existance for the benefit of a group of people. Whitehill Welfare, Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare, Lochore Welfare (at one point Lochore Miners Welfare) all have links to mining. There are teams like that in the North East of England. There are still a few 'Welfare' social clubs be it ex-servicemens or mining clubs. There's a dockers club in Rosyth.

It is separate to the SAFA as opposed to being above, next to or below it. The SJFA is of course separate again, but were a team from the Caledonian Amateur League to play Wishaw from the West Juniors or one of the North Division Two teams like Whitehills from Banff, I know who my money would be on, so we can't even say that the SJFA is categorically above the SAFA.

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 04 May 2007 - 15:53

[HibeeJibee]

I guess as an average though it would be:
SPL
SFL
HFL
SJFA (with wide variations due to membership)
EOS
SOS
SAFA (with wide variations due to membership)
SWFA
Basically I'm interested for fitting in Stages 7 and 8 of my pyramid. I e-mailled the SAFA a while back asking how many clubs they have in their membership/leagues but they never replied.........