[cmontheloknow]

Shielfielder, on Apr 6 2007, 09:30, said:

All sub-200 attended matches at Shielfield Park (or classed as a home match) are:

178 1976-77 2nd April 1977 Second Division v East Stirlingshire 1-0
174 1991-92 28th March 1992 Second Division v Dumbarton 1-5 played at Albion Rovers FC
168 1975-76 21st February 1976 Second Division v Cowdenbeath 0-1
150 1986-87 7th March 1987 Second Division v East Stirlingshire 0-1
150 1991-92 2nd May 1992 Second Division v East Fife 1-4 played at Stenhousemuir FC
140 1968-69 26th April 1969 Division 2 v Clydebank 5-0
114 1991-92 4th April 1992 Second Division v Stenhousemuir 0-1 played at Alloa FC
71 1991-92 25th April 1992 Second Division v Arbroath 3-2 played at East Fife FC

What was the problem with Shielfield in 1991-92 that you were locked out? Was it a dispute with the owner or council?

[Bryan]

Frank Booth, on Apr 5 2007, 15:57, said:

Oh dear...he'd have got that anyway had you attended or not.

didn't mean rent

[centralparker]

Shielfielder, on Apr 6 2007, 19:18, said:

A greyhound promoter, who had gained control of the lease (due a local council administrative error) to Shielfield Park after the club had being forced into administration following financial irregularities, refused to give us access to the ground over a trivial personality clash with our then chairman.

Those were tense days!

Was the club not effectively bankrupt at this time and only able to continue because the creditors somehow agreed to accept a paltry 7p in the pound?

[scrooge1928]

LLD, on Mar 8 2007, 21:03, said:

The all-time low official figure for Meadowbank was 80 (eighty), on Christmas Eve 1979 v Stenny.

I'd take any Meadowbank crowd figures with a pinch of salt. I was at the Meadowbank-Stenny game in 1979 and the crowd was low even for us – but there were more than 80 people in the stand. After that day Thistle did what everyone else does and added season tickets and complimentaries to the totals; about 50 and 20 respectively. There was certainly a home game against Stranraer where 79 people paid to get in, but the official figure was in three figures. I'm dubious about crowd figures from Thistle's last season. By then Bill Hunter had banned half the support and most of the rest of us were boycotting, going only to away matches. As for Livi's few months at Meadowbank – I've a pal who lives behind the stadium and he used to count crowds from over the fence. Well below 100, comps and seasons included, according to him.

On the other hand, some big Thistle crowds never got recorded. The first-ever match, against Albion Rovers in 1974, attracted 3000+, rounded up to 4000 for the record books. When it was necessary to justify the move to Livi, this biggest crowd started to shrink. Just above 2000, the last I remember.

By far the biggest crowd at Meadowbank was for the Thistle-St Johnstone League Cup quarter-final in 1984 or so. The Hearts boys had got the idea that the winners of that match would play them in the semi-final, and they rolled up in droves. The gatemen were overwhelmed, and the club had to open up the uncovered area turnstiles. In the end Thistle had to let people in for nothing, so they could see the first half, and it was rumoured they paid Saints compensation for the reduced takings.

Anyway, the stand was fuller than I've seen it outside the Commonwealth Games, and there were spectators on the benches all round the field. Between five and seven thousand altogether, I estimate – probably twice the printed figure.

In fact, I'd take any lower-division crowd figures with a pinch of salt. In the 1980s guys in a reasonable position to know told me that sub-100 crowds were recorded at not only Meadowbank, but also Shire, Stirling, Stenny, Albion Rovers, Montrose, Brechin, Cowdenbeath and Queen's Park, and probably a whole load of others. Forfar-Meadowbank figures in the Sunday Mail didn't bear any relationship to the sparse crowd we stood in the previous day, and some reported Clyde-Meadowbank attendances in the Firhill days must have included every pedestrian in the Maryhill Road.

[HibeeJibee]

Meadowbank record crowd is claimed to be the opening match of first season v Albion Rovers.

Anyone help on the following:
- highest and lowest Challenge Cup crowds
- matches in the Junior Cup, excluding finals, which drew crowds of over 20,000 people
- details of the Spring Cup and Summer Cup competitions

Also, has the Challenge Cup always had the exact same format as currently in all its history?

[centralparker]

scrooge1928, on Aug 17 2007, 20:56, said:

In fact, I'd take any lower-division crowd figures with a pinch of salt. In the 1980s guys in a reasonable position to know told me that sub-100 crowds were recorded at not only Meadowbank, but also Shire, Stirling, Stenny, Albion Rovers, Montrose, Brechin, Cowdenbeath and Queen's Park, and probably a whole load of others.

Yes, I've personally counted 70 people inside Central Park on a freezing February evening.

[Jimmy MCcabe]

Gnasher's accountant, on Feb 14 2007, 23:52, said:

Stranraer's 212 earlier this season (v Alloa?) must be in with a shout for the 2nd Division.

Never going to be the smallest and all could get a HOT pie

[LLD]

scrooge1928, on Aug 17 2007, 20:56, said:

On the other hand, some big Thistle crowds never got recorded. The first-ever match, against Albion Rovers in 1974, attracted 3000+, rounded up to 4000 for the record books. When it was necessary to justify the move to Livi, this biggest crowd started to shrink. Just above 2000, the last I remember.

The 'official' figure of 2818 has been around for at least 25 years.

[scrooge1928]

LLD, on Aug 30 2007, 19:33, said:

The 'official' figure of 2818 has been around for at least 25 years.

It might have been around, but it doesn't seem to have been publicised, and all the sources which say four thousand were never corrected. I've got a 1989-90 Thistle-Raith programme in front of me with 'Record Attendance 4000'; Rothmans Yearbooks always said that, and so did 'The Football Grounds of Great Britain'.

Of course Rothmans' accuracy re Scottish football is legendary (like Santa Claus), and maybe the Scottish League Reviews of the early 1980s did show the proper figure - I've none here to check. If they did, my apologies.

What was the 'official' figure for the Skol Cup quarter-final against St Johnstone?

[Cardinal Richelieu]

Not really connected to crowd sizes, but why in the name of Greek buggery do a cigarette manufacturer publish a book on football statistics?

[drs]

They were the sponsors of the book, it's now the Sky Sports Football Yearbook and has been going downhill since they ditched the team photos.

A wonderful book for settling arguments about where you have seen certain players before.

[cmontheloknow]

drs, on Sep 3 2007, 11:44, said:

They were the sponsors of the book, it's now the Sky Sports Football Yearbook and has been going downhill since they ditched the team photos.

A wonderful book for settling arguments about where you have seen certain players before.

Not strictly true - it's got far more info now than it did then.

And as for crowds in the old SFL Reviews, Scrooge, they first appeared in the 1996-97 edition.

As David Ross's book on crowds suggests, official gates have always been haphazard as clubs only have to declare the end of season total.

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 03 September 2007 - 15:41

[cowdenbeath]

cmontheloknow, on Sep 3 2007, 16:40, said:

As David Ross's book on crowds suggests, official gates have always been haphazard as clubs only have to declare the end of season total.

They have to send a break down of the crowd to the SFL after every game.

[cmontheloknow]

cowdenbeath, on Sep 3 2007, 17:52, said:

They have to send a break down of the crowd to the SFL after every game.

Maybe now, but not in the old days which was what I meant though admittedly that isn't clear from what I said.

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 03 September 2007 - 17:07

[cowdenbeath]

cmontheloknow, on Sep 3 2007, 18:06, said:

Maybe now, but not in the old days which was what I meant though admittedly that isn't clear from what I said.

Don't know how long they have been doing it for but a good few years anyway. I imagine they are the crowds which were in the league review books.

You notice the clubs who put out dodgy league figures to the press - they are the ones who have much lower crowds when they play similar sized clubs in cup games when they have to split the gate