[Mushroom]

Could you give me details on the smallest crowds for each division since the modern set up

[RiG]

I think ICT v Dundee attracted something like 1,200 odd when we ground shared at Pittodrie.

[cmontheloknow]

ochil-clyde, on Feb 13 2007, 09:33, said:

Could you give me details on the smallest crowds for each division since the modern set up

I only have the averages to hand. Actual games I'm working on but it's a long drawn out ongoing process.

[Gnash]

There was a small crowds thread on here (possibly not this sub-forum) a few months back.

[Mushroom]

cmontheloknow, on Feb 13 2007, 11:33, said:

I only have the averages to hand. Actual games I'm working on but it's a long drawn out ongoing process.

Fair enough

[kristov]

For the SPL it is:

1,972 (ICT v Dunfermline, 14th or 15th August 2004 @ Pittodrie)

[Gnash]

Stranraer's 212 earlier this season (v Alloa?) must be in with a shout for the 2nd Division.

[centralparker]

I've seen Cowden play to less than 70 people on two separate occasions but these figures never appeared in print. On both nights I personally counted the crowd (yes the football was that bad) so I'm 100% certain about this.

This post has been edited by centralparker: 15 February 2007 - 00:05

[Neiljb]

centralparker, on Feb 15 2007, 00:05, said:

I've seen Cowden play to less than 70 people on two separate occasions but these figures never appeared in print. On both nights I personally counted the crowd (yes the football was that bad) so I'm 100% certain about this.

Did that include the tea lady though?

[centralparker]

I bet there have been a few sub-100 attendances over the years; Cowdenbeath, East Stirling and Meadowbank being prime candidates. It will be almost impossible to verify these figures in print because clubs will have bumped up the figure to avoid embarassment and that's what will be written in the record books. You have to rely on talking to people who were at the games.

[cmontheloknow]

centralparker, on Feb 15 2007, 00:14, said:

I bet there have been a few sub-100 attendances over the years; Cowdenbeath, East Stirling and Meadowbank being prime candidates. It will be almost impossible to verify these figures in print because clubs will have bumped up the figure to avoid embarassment and that's what will be written in the record books. You have to rely on talking to people who were at the games.

Clubs will in general include all season ticket holders in a gate, not just those who turn up.

[Glenrothes]

cmontheloknow, on Feb 15 2007, 07:35, said:

Clubs will in general include all season ticket holders in a gate, not just those who turn up.

Will the crowd at Clydebank (v East Stirling??) no be amongst them? It was at the time of talk of moving them to Dublin and all the shyte that went with it - the Bankies fans deliberatly boycotted the game - some protesting outside.

The crowd was something like 28.

[cmontheloknow]

Glenrothes, on Feb 15 2007, 15:50, said:

Will the crowd at Clydebank (v East Stirling??) no be amongst them? It was at the time of talk of moving them to Dublin and all the shyte that went with it - the Bankies fans deliberatly boycotted the game - some protesting outside.

The crowd was something like 28.

That game was a CIS League Cup tie, but coincided with Greenock being 'shut' because of the Tall Ships event the same day. The official attendance of that game on 31/7/99 was 69.

[centralparker]

cmontheloknow, on Feb 15 2007, 07:35, said:

Clubs will in general include all season ticket holders in a gate, not just those who turn up.

Fair point, but the clubs I mentioned probably wouldn't have had any more than 20 season ticket holders anyway, so including a few "no-shows" in the gate would not have had a significant effect. The secretary will just think of a number to release to the press to keep things respectable.

This post has been edited by centralparker: 15 February 2007 - 20:44

[badgers apprentice]

cmontheloknow, on Feb 15 2007, 15:54, said:

That game was a CIS League Cup tie, but coincided with Greenock being 'shut' because of the Tall Ships event the same day. The official attendance of that game on 31/7/99 was 69.

29

[cmontheloknow]

badgers apprentice, on Feb 15 2007, 23:53, said:

29

69. From two sources: Rothmans 2000-01 and Scottish Football Review 2000-01.

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 16 February 2007 - 07:17

[badgers apprentice]

cmontheloknow, on Feb 16 2007, 07:15, said:

69. From two sources: Rothmans 2000-01 and Scottish Football Review 2000-01.

news of the world 2002-2003, smallest paid attendance for british first-class match : 29 for clydebank v east stirling, cis scottish league cup first round, july 31, 1999. played at morton's cappielow park ground, shared by clydebank, the match clashed with the tall ships race which attracted 200,000 to the area.

[RiG]

kristov, on Feb 14 2007, 21:54, said:

For the SPL it is:

1,972 (ICT v Dunfermline, 14th or 15th August 2004 @ Pittodrie)

So we did get more for midweek games v Dundee and Dundee United!?

[cmontheloknow]

badgers apprentice, on Feb 16 2007, 09:14, said:

news of the world 2002-2003, smallest paid attendance for british first-class match : 29 for clydebank v east stirling, cis scottish league cup first round, july 31, 1999. played at morton's cappielow park ground, shared by clydebank, the match clashed with the tall ships race which attracted 200,000 to the area.

News of the World or two respected 'bibles' of British football... difficult choice! If two separate books quote 69 as the figure, they had to get their information from somewhere. Cup crowds are the least arguable of all as they have to be declared accurately.

[centralparker]

cmontheloknow, on Feb 17 2007, 09:47, said:

News of the World or two respected 'bibles' of British football... difficult choice! If two separate books quote 69 as the figure, they had to get their information from somewhere. Cup crowds are the least arguable of all as they have to be declared accurately.

Radio Scotland also reported the attendance as 29. I vividly remember listening to this in the car. I suspect that 29 people paid to get but the figure was bumped up by another 40 to include directors and guests. Which is fair enough as these people watch the game too.

There was once a paying attendance of 20 at a midweek Cowdenbeath v Dumbarton game in the late 90s. The match was played in appallingly wet weather conditions and there was not a soul on the terracing. I happened to be sitting in front of the directors box and personally heard the secretary mention this figure. I did a head count at half time and there wasn't more than 60 people in the stand altogether. Of course, neither figure was ever officially released to the press.

Another match that springs to mind is Cowden v Brechin, again late 90s, when 70 people turned up on a frozen February evening.

At the other end of the scale, Cowden played Rangers in 1984 in a cup quarter final and the attendance was given as 9925. Yet I personally witnessed at least a couple of thousand flooding through a big gate which was opened by the police to alleviate crushing at the turnstiles, not to mention the scores who clambered over the walls. The true attendance must surely have been higher.

I appreciate that statisticians have to rely on sources such as Rothmans but you can't always take what the "football bible" says as gospel, particularly with sensitive attendance figures.

This post has been edited by centralparker: 17 February 2007 - 11:07

[cmontheloknow]

centralparker, on Feb 17 2007, 11:00, said:

I appreciate that statisticians have to rely on sources such as Rothmans but you can't always take what the "football bible" says as gospel, particularly with sensitive attendance figures.

Absolutely true, but if you don't take the word of statistical records then there's not much point in getting into this kind of debate as anything beyond an official gate is unverifiable. Obviously the smaller the crowd, the easier it is to count those there.

However, a headcount attendance will always differ to the released figure because you'll not be able to include the season ticket holders who will (at the club's discretion) be included en bloc for league games.

Conversely, a headcount might also be too high against an official gate as guests and committee etc tend not to be included. At a typical Pollok game we'll have at least 40-50 people in attendance who are not part of the official gate, though we do count in the season ticket holders.

29 was indeed the figure reported at the time... it was a big joke, but that's not what the history books show and at the end of the day that's what ultimately has to count. Maybe 29 was issued in error? Rothmans and the SFL Review had to get the figure of 69 from somewhere.

[MIFTHEBINO]

I can remember this too- the figure of people who paid to get in was 29-this is why the paper said this was the attendance, but the official figure was 69 (like someone said-they must have added the directors,comps,etc) to this figure!

[centralparker]

badgers apprentice, on Feb 16 2007, 09:14, said:

the match clashed with the tall ships race which attracted 200,000 to the area.

The Tall Ships race obviously had a big effect on the crowd but wasn't there a lot of bad-feeling among the Clydebank fans at this time because the club had been moved miles away from the home town? I'm sure they organised a boycott for this game. Also, Shire would have taken almost no support.

Bankies attendances didn't get much better at Cappielow, despite them leading the league for most of the campaign and having big name players in their side. I went trough there with Cowden and the crowd was 152.

[Captain Kerthorse]

We were in sub 200 teritory for our Scottish Cup tie agaisnt Stranraer this year.

[kristov]

RiG, on Feb 16 2007, 10:29, said:

So we did get more for midweek games v Dundee and Dundee United!?

Whoops- that Dunfermline game was the lowest until these games:

Scottish Premier - KO 19:45
Inverness CT 2 (1) - 1(0) Dundee
At Pittodrie Stadium on 27-10-2004
Att: 1254

Scottish Premier - KO 19:45
Inverness CT 1 (0) - 1(0) Dundee Utd
At Pittodrie Stadium on 23-11-2004
Att: 1125

Scottish Premier - KO 15:00
Inverness CT 1 (0) - 1(1) Motherwell
At Pittodrie Stadium on 03-10-2004
Att: 1117
From Soccerbase.