Ira Gaines Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 We simply don't play above our limitations at the moment, and because of that, I'd expect every single team in this tournament to be able to beat us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil1870 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 We simply don't play above our limitations at the moment, and because of that, I'd expect every single team in this tournament to be able to beat us. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 We simply don't play above our limitations at the moment, and because of that, I'd expect every single team in this tournament to be able to beat us. Yeah I'd agree with that. We seem to be able to beat the likes of Denmark and the Czechs in friendlies but when it comes down to the nitty gritty we never get over the line. It's easy enough sitting watching the tv saying oh Russia, Sweden, England, Slovakia and both the Irelands are pish ect but they all done the hard bit when it mattered and we couldn't. There aren't much between these teams in reality and it certainly shows. We are probably where we should have been pre Levein/Burley. Strachan done well to steady the ship as it were, but now we need to start seeing progression or we're in the hunt for another manager. I said before Strachan had his contract renewed, whoever the manager is he needs the next 2 campaigns, not much point giving the manager this campaign and be back at square one with a new manager trying to rebuild at the start of the next Euros qualifying, however I can see Strachan not being in charge near the end of the WC qualifying because we have no chance in hell of finishing above England, even if we took 4 points off them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Good point in the Herald this morning, would strachan go to a tournament and have a Killie and Aberdeen player on the park together? OK its not like Michael o Neill has much of a choice but it surely shows getting a squad of players who can gel and play as a team is more important than who they play for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 18, 2016 Author Share Posted June 18, 2016 Good point in the Herald this morning, would strachan go to a tournament and have a Killie and Aberdeen player on the park together? OK its not like Michael o Neill has much of a choice but it surely shows getting a squad of players who can gel and play as a team is more important than who they play for. Two ways of looking at that. You could easily argue that not one Aberdeen or Kilmarnock player would merit a place in the squad on any grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 What you have to look at aswell is Northern Ireland's defence was made up of Premiership defenders apart from Aaron Hughes who used to play in the EPL. Cathcart, Evans and McAuley have all been brilliant. They even have McNair playing at Man U on the bench. We don't have that standard of defence to build our team on and unless a miracle happens (someone like Caulker switching over or someone appearing from nowhere) I don't think we'll get much success with our current batch of defenders. It's all well and good being able to score goals but we can't keep relying on scoring 2-3 goals to win games, we don't have enough goals in us for that. If you even ignore the backline the only other player I'd bite your hand off for is Steven Davis and maybe Lafferty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DAVIDB69 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Two ways of looking at that. You could easily argue that not one Aberdeen or Kilmarnock player would merit a place in the squad on any grounds. Yet players from the likes of ipswich, Brighton and Notts forest are .But we have to get away from the mentality it's our closed restrictive selection policy that is part of the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Yet players from the likes of ipswich, Brighton and Notts forest are .But we have to get away from the mentality it's our closed restrictive selection policy that is part of the problem Because they're the best players we have available. What are you suggesting the alternative is? It's not like we have an entire squad of players banging on the door of inclusion. With a few questionable options, we continually pick the best squad we have available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Because they're the best players we have available. What are you suggesting the alternative is? It's not like we have an entire squad of players banging on the door of inclusion. With a few questionable options, we continually pick the best squad we have available. He always moans about how young players never get called up and now he's moaning we're calling up Burke from Forrest . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolfie Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Having been in Paris and Marseille for the past week, it was a horrible feeling knowing we never made it there seeing so many countries there. Unlucky not to get there IMO, just fell at the last hurdle. Many will disagree and say we're shite(Georgia game yes) but we did compete in all the rest and only lost three times. To answer the OP, I think we could of possible got through in NI group, France group and the Portugal group as one of the four best third place sides. Wtf are you on, mate? I want some of it please! Delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Wtf are you on, mate? I want some of it please! Delusional. K m8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 We'd be bottom of any group, our defence is far too weak. There are some poor sides in this tournament but they are all able to at least make it hard for the other team to score, we can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 What you have to look at aswell is Northern Ireland's defence was made up of Premiership defenders apart from Aaron Hughes who used to play in the EPL. Cathcart, Evans and McAuley have all been brilliant. They even have McNair playing at Man U on the bench. We don't have that standard of defence to build our team on and unless a miracle happens (someone like Caulker switching over or someone appearing from nowhere) I don't think we'll get much success with our current batch of defenders. It's all well and good being able to score goals but we can't keep relying on scoring 2-3 goals to win games, we don't have enough goals in us for that. If you even ignore the backline the only other player I'd bite your hand off for is Steven Davis and maybe Lafferty. This is it, they are relatively solid at the back and will keep themselves in the game long enough to score a counter attack goal or from a set-piece - precisely what they did in their last match. When we nearly qualified in '08 we had the same tactics and very nearly worked. Ireland did the same in our group. Unfortunately it's hard to see us managing to do the same with our defenders as they just aren't at that level. We have a Championship level defence whereas all the other home nations and Ireland have Premier League defences, that is the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pub car king Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 The selection policy of countless scotland managers is restrictive. Vogts is the only manager in years who picked outside the usual narrow window. The teams that have impressed me and made me think scotland could do this played yesterday Hungary and Iceland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Two ways of looking at that. You could easily argue that not one Aberdeen or Kilmarnock player would merit a place in the squad on any grounds. You certainly could but I have no confidence that a hypothetical good enough player would be pitched in. How many non OF players in Scotland have started a competitive game in the past 10 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 How many non OF players in Scotland have started a competitive game in the past 10 years? Since 2005/06... Russell Anderson - Aberdeen - 2 competitive starts Craig Gordon - Hearts - 11 competitive starts Paul Hartley - Hearts - 4 competitive starts Steven Pressley - Hearts - 4 competitive starts Lee Wallace - Hearts - 1 competitive starts Andy Webster - Hearts - 5 competitive starts Scott Brown - Hibernian - 1 competitive start Gary Caldwell - Hibernian - 2 competitive starts Steven Fletcher - Hibernian - 1 competitive start Add about eight or nine for players who've been subbed on in competitive matches, and then double that figure for players who've earned a cap. Thing to take out that is that every one of those got a bigger move not long after they got capped, which suggests that the very best players in the Scottish top flight have every chance of earning a cap. I can't see any real standout in the league at the moment who looks any better than what we have though. Heres the list of all non-OF players in Scotland who have been capped since the start of 2005/06 Russell Anderson - Aberdeen Chris Maguire - Aberdeen Lee Miller - Aberdeen/Dundee United Scott Severin - Aberdeen Craig Conway - Dundee United David Goodwillie - Dundee United Garry Kenneth - Dundee United Gary Mackay-Steven - Dundee United Andy Robertson - Dundee United Scott Robertson - Dundee United Barry Robson - Dundee United Andy Webster - Dundee United Darren Barr - Falkirk Christophe Berra - Hearts Craig Gordon - Hearts Paul Hartley - Hearts Callum Paterson - Hearts Steven Pressley - Hearts Michael Stewart - Hearts Lee Wallace - Hearts Andy Webster - Hearts Scott Brown - Hibs Gary Caldwell - Hibs Steven Fletcher - Hibs John McGinn - Hibs Garry O'Connor - Hibs Derek Riordan - Hibs Andy Shinnie - ICT Cammy Bell - Kilmarnock Craig Bryson - Kilmarnock Liam Kelly - Kilmarnock Kevin Kyle - Kilmarnock Steven Naismith - Kilmarnock David McNamee - Livingston David Clarkson - Motherwell Ross McCormack - Motherwell Murray Davidson - St Johnstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 David MacNamee. My sweet lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DAVIDB69 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Because they're the best players we have available. What are you suggesting the alternative is? It's not like we have an entire squad of players banging on the door of inclusion. With a few questionable options, we continually pick the best squad we have available. They clearly aren't because our results are rubbish if these players from these type of clubs are taking us forward great that would be fine but clearly they are not. Next season someone bangs in a dozen goals for say hearts by Xmas will they get in the squad no. Strachan discovers someone who starts 3 or 4 games for Rotherham English born scores twice but has a Scottish father he gets straight in the squad. This has to be wrong if no exclusions are good for Northern Ireland they have to be good enough for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Next season someone bangs in a dozen goals for say hearts by Xmas will they get in the squad no. Strachan discovers someone who starts 3 or 4 games for Rotherham English born scores twice but has a Scottish father he gets straight in the squad. Any examples to back this up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeJay Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I've watched every game so far and as the tournament goes on the more relieved I am Scotland aren't there. Every single team is streets ahead of us (yes, including N. Ireland, Hungary, Iceland etc). Euro 2020 has to be the next realistic target for qualification, but with our ageing squad it's near impossible to be optimistic for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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