Call me insane but I can see a big change coming

[Ira Gaines]

Taking Slovakia for example,

Wladimir Weiss, 26 years old, 56 caps.

Miroslaw Stoch, 26 years old, 55 caps.

Marek Hamsik, 28 years old, 89 caps.

That's just taking their midfield. All three of them had made their debuts by the age of 19. They have players throughout the whole squad who have amassed a solid number of caps throughout their career.

I'd be interested to see the dispersion of caps to Scotland players compared to Slovakia in the last ten years. From the last two Scotland squads we have three players on 50 caps or more. Scott Brown and Alan Hutton both have 50 exactly, Darren Fletcher in the 70's. All three are over 30. Slovakia have nine, and a whole host of players in their 20's who have amassed a decent number to date. They are dispersed across different leagues in Europe and further afield.

Scotland's selection policy seems to be have been based entirely on who is having a flash of decent form in the English Championship. There is no consistency or emphasis based on developing players at international level.

There are probably even more glaring examples of this than Slovakia and perhaps the odd exception, but if people think that Scotlands English Championship Select team should be beating Slovakia, they're going to be in for a nasty surprise.

Again, I've admitted that they have quality players. But they look poor as a team. Both games we've seen the same performance from them. Difference was Hamsik provided more magic in one.

[Gordopolis]

Taking Slovakia for example,

Wladimir Weiss, 26 years old, 56 caps.

Miroslaw Stoch, 26 years old, 55 caps.

Marek Hamsik, 28 years old, 89 caps.

That's just taking their midfield. All three of them had made their debuts by the age of 19. They have players throughout the whole squad who have amassed a solid number of caps throughout their career.

I'd be interested to see the dispersion of caps to Scotland players compared to Slovakia in the last ten years. From the last two Scotland squads we have three players on 50 caps or more. Scott Brown and Alan Hutton both have 50 exactly, Darren Fletcher in the 70's. All three are over 30. Slovakia have nine, and a whole host of players in their 20's who have amassed a decent number to date. They are dispersed across different leagues in Europe and further afield.

Scotland's selection policy seems to be have been based entirely on who is having a flash of decent form in the English Championship. There is no consistency or emphasis based on developing players at international level.

There are probably even more glaring examples of this than Slovakia and perhaps the odd exception, but if people think that Scotlands English Championship Select team should be beating Slovakia, they're going to be in for a nasty surprise.

100% this.

[forameus]

Taking Slovakia for example,

 

Wladimir Weiss, 26 years old, 56 caps.

Miroslaw Stoch, 26 years old, 55 caps.

Marek Hamsik, 28 years old, 89 caps.

 

That's just taking their midfield. All three of them had made their debuts by the age of 19. They have players throughout the whole squad who have amassed a solid number of caps throughout their career.

 

I'd be interested to see the dispersion of caps to Scotland players compared to Slovakia in the last ten years. From the last two Scotland squads we have three players on 50 caps or more. Scott Brown and Alan Hutton both have 50 exactly, Darren Fletcher in the 70's. All three are over 30. Slovakia have nine, and a whole host of players in their 20's who have amassed a decent number to date. They are dispersed across different leagues in Europe and further afield.

 

Scotland's selection policy seems to be have been based entirely on who is having a flash of decent form in the English Championship. There is no consistency or emphasis based on developing players at international level.

 

There are probably even more glaring examples of this than Slovakia and perhaps the odd exception, but if people think that Scotlands English Championship Select team should be beating Slovakia, they're going to be in for a nasty surprise.

 

But it's all well and good pointing to very good players and saying "look at how early they debuted", but do we have anyone that would come close to being that good?  You could give 11 young players debuts, but if they turn out to be shit then what have we really gained?

 

The answer isn't "stick with the old guard".  The answer isn't "tear it up and start again".  The answer isn't "throw the youth in and hope for the best".  It's the best mix of everything.  If we have young players that are good enough, they'll get a game, and if they continue to be good enough they'll probably be in the sort of region of caps that the players you mentioned have.  But if they don't have the quality, in ten years we can point to them having 100 caps, but if we still haven't qualified then big who caresies.

[Guest DAVIDB69]

I don't I see more of the same with the same players who have up to five failed campaigns under their belts

[Only one David Marsh]

Again, I've admitted that they have quality players. But they look poor as a team. Both games we've seen the same performance from them. Difference was Hamsik provided more magic in one.

That's the difference they have players that can change a game we don't even have a hamsik type player

[Ira Gaines]

Only one David Marsh, on 16 Jun 2016 - 16:18, said:

That's the difference they have players that can change a game we don't even have a hamsik type player

 

That's my only concern for me. He decides to turn up and we have trouble.

They're still a side we should be looking to take points off though. If we don't aim for that, then I don't really see what the point is.

[Only one David Marsh]

That's my only concern for me. He decides to turn up and we have trouble.

They're still a side we should be looking to take points off though. If we don't aim for that, then I don't really see what the point is.

That's what I hope we aim for every game it's just hard getting excited for a Scotland game especially after how the last campaign ended and the last couple of friendly matches.

[dogmc]

Pile of absolute shite. Yes, we don't have a divine right to qualify for tournaments but when you fail to do so 9 times in a row, including when they've opened it up to let practically everyone in, that is shite.

We sandwich Denmark, Slovakia, Ireland, Croatia etc in a list of European populations, there is absolutely no reason to excuse ourselves for doing f**k all in 20 years.

Correct.The ni manager hasnt just accepted their 'average level'. Look what oneill has achieved with a much worse group of players to pick from. Our players arent great but under Strachan we are definitely nit achieving the results or performances that we could be.

[Jan Vojáček]

I don't often say nice things about them but Edinburgh Council have a scheme where kids get a wristband each day which allows them to play on the the unbooked 3G pitches whenever they're free. It's a bit of a pain in the arse as it means we end up having to kick kids off our booked pitch every week but at least it gets them playing football rather than allowing the pitches to lie unused.

That's a cracking idea. As long as they leave when the teams who've booked it come on to train that would be a great idea for us to do here. I might suggest that next time I'm sending a ranting email to the Council.

[RandomGuy.]

Does the Spfl still have rules for playing at least 3 u21 players? Every team should be doing this to get players first team football. 3 starting players, not just on bench.

 

 

Thankfully not, as it was a fucking dreadful rule. We had numerous youngsters we wanted to loan out but couldnt as we had to comply with that rule while also having a bench good enough to compete. Youngsters are far better off getting loaned out than being forced to sit on a bench.

[Gordopolis]

Thankfully not, as it was a fucking dreadful rule. We had numerous youngsters we wanted to loan out but couldnt as we had to comply with that rule while also having a bench good enough to compete. Youngsters are far better off getting loaned out than being forced to sit on a bench.

But presters is saying it should be 3 starters

[RandomGuy.]

But presters is saying it should be 3 starters

 

Which would be an even worse rule. Forcing youngsters into starting line ups at a level they aren't comfortable at would cause more harm than anything. The loan system is the best for developing young players. 

[D.A.F.C]

Reckon we could start something by having an academy system that drafted out the best young players to the lowest placed clubs in the top two divisions.

Unfortunately big clubs wil be selfish and won't see it as fair that they are spending money training up players to benefit other teams.

At the moment they are paying money for nothing and stalling or ending the careers of young players, Celtic win the u20s league and cup nearly every year yet go and buy more youth players like Allen and Christie and leave them to rot while getting man city youngsters on loan.

The whole setup seems crazy? What's the point of having youth teams to do this?

One of the best players I watched in league one was their young winger, McMullan, there must be many more out there who would benefit greatly from playing an entire season at that level or above rather than the u20s.

Youngsters need to play at the highest level possible as early as possible, Livvy and Accies have proven that this works.

[lionel hutz]

Reckon we could start something by having an academy system that drafted out the best young players to the lowest placed clubs in the top two divisions.

Unfortunately big clubs wil be selfish and won't see it as fair that they are spending money training up players to benefit other teams.

At the moment they are paying money for nothing and stalling or ending the careers of young players, Celtic win the u20s league and cup nearly every year yet go and buy more youth players like Allen and Christie and leave them to rot while getting man city youngsters on loan.

The whole setup seems crazy? What's the point of having youth teams to do this?

One of the best players I watched in league one was their young winger, McMullan, there must be many more out there who would benefit greatly from playing an entire season at that level or above rather than the u20s.

Youngsters need to play at the highest level possible as early as possible, Livvy and Accies have proven that this works.

100% This.

 

Stuart Armstrong is a perfect example, a brilliant youth player at Utd, Scotland Under-21 captain and is now struggling to be on the bench for Celtic each week.

We are a small nation, however we do have a decent domestic league that is continually put down by Scotland managers behind the lower echelons of the English second tier.

Looking ahead to the players that will be representing Scotland in the coming years -

Scotland's Under 26 team: (Caps)

All players have been called up in the last 12 months.

__________________Scott Bain (0)

Robertson (10) - Hanley (22) - Steven Kingsley (1) - Paterson (1)

Forsyth (4) - McLean (1) - Armstrong (0) - McGinn (1) - Forrest (13)

_______________Griffiths (7 with 0 Goals)____________________

I originally was going to make that in a 442 formation only to find that Tony Watt was the only other striker under 26 that's been called up in the last year. F**k me we are really missing a striker.

That is a very weak squad that'll get battered unless they get more game time. I know that omits a few players, but the message is clear, the future is looking bleak, if our young starlets continue to be snubbed for past-it ex-OF players in their mid 30s.

 

[lubo_blaha]

We don't have the players to compete with even smaller nations than us now.

Changing the manager every few years won't fix it. Chuck the money at youth and academies and change the setup so that all the younger players get exposure rather than rotting in the u20s and the bench.

Talking of reserves maybe it's time we brought that back too. Surely u20s would learn more playing against seniors rather than fellow youngsters only then warming the bench just to make up the required numbers?

You can see that most of the youngsters who made it from Scotland were played at a very young age and played every week.

Snodgrass, McCarthy, Fletcher.

To see Celtic and rangers sign premiership youngsters on loan when they have players like Tierney coming through is mind boggling.

The OF back in the spl will result in less youngsters and back to the same problem eluded to above.

 

Was genuinely confused as to which Scottish Premiership players you thought were on loan at Celtic and Rangers until I realised you still call it the SPL and were referring to the English Premier League when you said "Premiership". 

[troopio]

Going back to the Original post and the mention of Hampden........I know it is a bit like the FA Thing with Wembley in that there is obviously must be some sort of contract for EVERY Home game to be played there but personally for me I cannot stand the sight of the place when Scotland play there.......Unless we have something to play for then the atmosphere is generally terrible, the fact the pitch is miles away doesn't help matters either.

 

Would it kill the SFA dinosaurs to consider moving the games around the country for certain qualifiers? For example would it not make sense to play the games against the smaller nations at Easter Road/Tynecastle/Rugby Park/Pittodrie etc so there is more chance of a sell out and a much more of an atmosphere?? It is maybe just mere coincidence that the last time we qualified for something we weren't actually playing our games at the "National" Stadium.

 

Granted we don't sell out the smaller grounds for pointless friendlies against the likes of Qatar of course but in a game that means something? I remember being at a Sold out Rugby Park once for a qualifier and the atmosphere was electric, unless It really matters I do not really get the same feeling at Hampden. Just because Glasgow is the biggest city doesn't mean every single Home game has to be staged there.

[forameus]

Going back to the Original post and the mention of Hampden........I know it is a bit like the FA Thing with Wembley in that there is obviously must be some sort of contract for EVERY Home game to be played there but personally for me I cannot stand the sight of the place when Scotland play there.......Unless we have something to play for then the atmosphere is generally terrible, the fact the pitch is miles away doesn't help matters either.

 

Would it kill the SFA dinosaurs to consider moving the games around the country for certain qualifiers? For example would it not make sense to play the games against the smaller nations at Easter Road/Tynecastle/Rugby Park/Pittodrie etc so there is more chance of a sell out and a much more of an atmosphere?? It is maybe just mere coincidence that the last time we qualified for something we weren't actually playing our games at the "National" Stadium.

 

Granted we don't sell out the smaller grounds for pointless friendlies against the likes of Qatar of course but in a game that means something? I remember being at a Sold out Rugby Park once for a qualifier and the atmosphere was electric, unless It really matters I do not really get the same feeling at Hampden. Just because Glasgow is the biggest city doesn't mean every single Home game has to be staged there.

 

How many SSC members do we have?  Isn't it around 30k?  We don't have a stadium that could fit all of them.  It would completely negate the point of the SSC membership if you were not guaranteed a seat for every qualifier.

 

Friendlies though, unless it's a huge glamour tie, then they absolutely should be toured around.

[Erskjne Bridge]

I'm sure Thistle could accommodate 30k on the bing.

[microdave]

Going back to the Original post and the mention of Hampden........I know it is a bit like the FA Thing with Wembley in that there is obviously must be some sort of contract for EVERY Home game to be played there but personally for me I cannot stand the sight of the place when Scotland play there.......Unless we have something to play for then the atmosphere is generally terrible, the fact the pitch is miles away doesn't help matters either.

 

Would it kill the SFA dinosaurs to consider moving the games around the country for certain qualifiers? For example would it not make sense to play the games against the smaller nations at Easter Road/Tynecastle/Rugby Park/Pittodrie etc so there is more chance of a sell out and a much more of an atmosphere?? It is maybe just mere coincidence that the last time we qualified for something we weren't actually playing our games at the "National" Stadium.

 

Granted we don't sell out the smaller grounds for pointless friendlies against the likes of Qatar of course but in a game that means something? I remember being at a Sold out Rugby Park once for a qualifier and the atmosphere was electric, unless It really matters I do not really get the same feeling at Hampden. Just because Glasgow is the biggest city doesn't mean every single Home game has to be staged there.

 

While I agree with the sentiment, we have too big a support to tour competitive matches around. In the last campaign, the crowds at the Georgia and Gibralatar games exceeded 30k. There are no stadia in the country that can accomodate that size of crowd without having 15-20k of empty seats. 

 

Which brings it back to a lack of atmosphere. What we really need is a new National stadium which can give a good atmosphere for crowds of 30-70k. Hampden only has it when there are more than 45k inside but I think it's still too new for us to have a replacement however much it is needed.

[TheScarf]

The stadium that hosted Wales v Russia last night in Toulouse would be perfect in Scotland for an alternative to Hampden. Holds about 30k and looked decent and the fans weren't 4 days from the pitch.