Erskjne Bridge Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Er... so our wide players are exposing themselves? Well, James Forrest did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopio Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 When we play Full backs like Alan Hutton and Steven Whittaker who are just failed wingers we will always concede.......... This obsession football has with the awful 4231 formation has to stop as well, pretty much 90% of teams use it now, why? As a purist I cannot think of anything worse than playing with 1 Striker, be as well playing 640 in that case.......Strachan is obsessed with turning Scotland into a possession based Nation when really he needs to do what all good Managers do which is select the right players and with that a formation that best suits the tools you have but he is so fixed on 4231 that we just look so poor every time we play games that matter. Our Players are not that bad in fact I would suggest that our team is head and shoulders above ANYTHING Northern Ireland have and outwith the best 4/5 Players the Republic have, the issue is and always will be Strachan and his negative tactics, decisions and general demeanour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 On the whole formation thing, is it just me that thinks we haven't actually played a 4-2-3-1? For me it's more strictly a 4-4-1-1, often 4-4-2 but with an attacking mid playing alongside the striker. In fact, more often than not, the attacking mid pressed really high most games. Might try and get some screencaps and see if I can back it up for myself. The problem was that the two sitting mids were quite deep and often not moving with the ball at their feet, but passing it on. We should have played one truly sitting midfielder, with another DM that can actually carry the ball and move up the pitch. Morrison is good at this when he plays there. We really miss him when he doesn't play. ETA: In saying this, Morrison played in Georgia and look how that went. Maybe I'm talking shite. Who is better than Hutton ? Exactly. He was also one of the best players in the last campaign at getting us up the pitch when we were hemmed in. Often managed to do it quite effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 On the whole formation thing, is it just me that thinks we haven't actually played a 4-2-3-1? For me it's more strictly a 4-4-1-1, often 4-4-2 but with an attacking mid playing alongside the striker. In fact, more often than not, the attacking mid pressed really high most games. Might try and get some screencaps and see if I can back it up for myself. The problem was that the two sitting mids were quite deep and often not moving with the ball at their feet, but passing it on. We should have played one truly sitting midfielder, with another DM that can actually carry the ball and move up the pitch. Morrison is good at this when he plays there. We really miss him when he doesn't play. ETA: In saying this, Morrison played in Georgia and look how that went. Maybe I'm talking shite. Exactly. He was also one of the best players in the last campaign at getting us up the pitch when we were hemmed in. Often managed to do it quite effectively. I'm glad you posted this. Couldn't believe what I was reading on this thread. Strachan's favoured formation absolutely has been 4-4-1-1/4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 It's a 4-2-3-1 for me. Obviously can easily vary and change as the game goes on and basically it becomes a 4-4-1-1 when defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think I see it a 4-4-2 when attacking because there only seems to be 2 lines of players from midfield to front, even when attacking. I'll see if I can do some screen caps when I get home. This is all just from memory, but I never remember seeing the 3 lines (the 2-3-1) when attacking or defending. Obviously things can be a bit more fluid than that sometimes, and yeah it does change. Plus we're shite so none of this really matters anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think I see it a 4-4-2 when attacking because there only seems to be 2 lines of players from midfield to front, even when attacking. I'll see if I can do some screen caps when I get home. This is all just from memory, but I never remember seeing the 3 lines (the 2-3-1) when attacking or defending. Obviously things can be a bit more fluid than that sometimes, and yeah it does change. Plus we're shite so none of this really matters anyway. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just for talk sake, our defence, in particular the central area is our weakest spot in the team. Would adding another poor centre half make us tougher to beat? Or more vulnerable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just for talk sake, our defence, in particular the central area is our weakest spot in the team. Would adding another poor centre half make us tougher to beat? Or more vulnerable? Can go either way I'd say. I think the two friendlies we've just had would have been the perfect time to try something like that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just for talk sake, our defence, in particular the central area is our weakest spot in the team. Would adding another poor centre half make us tougher to beat? Or more vulnerable? I think 3-5-2 would improve our defense two-fold. First of all bringing in a third centre half probably in the form of Charlie Mulgrew would essentially give us a spare man to help out at the back, and secondly packing the central third of the football field would help us dominate possession and thus shield our centre backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Also leaves Hutton (who I still believe to be one of our best attacking players) with less culpability in defence. Same with young Robertson, who wouldn't need to worry about defending as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopio Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 No one gets a chance to oust Hutton so there is no way of knowing who is better. Strachan doesn't trust anyone regardless of whether they are better or not, case in point only giving Patterson 45 minutes against Italy, he should have played 180 minutes over both games to see if he is truly up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think 3-5-2 would improve our defense two-fold. First of all bringing in a third centre half probably in the form of Charlie Mulgrew would essentially give us a spare man to help out at the back, and secondly packing the central third of the football field would help us dominate possession and thus shield our centre backs Mulgrew was one of the first names that popped into my head, had exactly the same thought about him being in that role. Also leaves Hutton (who I still believe to be one of our best attacking players) with less culpability in defence. Same with young Robertson, who wouldn't need to worry about defending as much. In some games it looks like Hutton is towing a caravan behind him and his final ball can be awful but there is something about his surging runs forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 In some games it looks like Hutton is towing a caravan behind him and his final ball can be awful but there is something about his surging runs forward. Yeah, I'd agree with that but at least he carries the ball and gets us up the pitch. Too many times we just shite it before getting to the half way line and pass it back, sideways, or hoof it to no one in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yeah, I'd agree with that but at least he carries the ball and gets us up the pitch. Too many times we just shite it before getting to the half way line and pass it back, sideways, or hoof it to no one in particular. Definitely. Seen the same with Naismith at our club. There was a point in time where he was pretty unstoppable in that position, maybe the 2008 qualifiers? It's obvious he is nearer the end of his International days and will need replaced but I think he has at least another campaign in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiviLion Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 We were playing 3 at the back but nothing like what's being discussed here. It was essentially one centre back, Martin, with two full backs, Hutton and Robertson, and no wing backs. Why Strachan thought that was a good idea I'll never know. Fair enough, just remember 3 at the back so assumed 3-5-2/5-3-2. Didn't want to remember anything about it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggisbeastie Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 True hatrick against Gibraltar being the master stroke Forget the Gibraltar games, I was thinking about the goal he setup in Dortmund, the goal he made key pass for in Warsaw & the goal he scored against Poland at Hampden. He's done better than a lot of others in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 We play the best system for the players available. I couldn't imagine us playing a 442 with the players we have. This is really absolutely it. People say we'll get torn apart with 4-4-2 because we absolutely had. We play two holding midfielders to allow the three other "midfielders" to get forward and support the lone striker. If we played 4-4-2, I imagine it'd be a case of playing two holding midfielders again. They'd withdraw to provide the support that our relatively poor defence needs, leaving the two strikers totally isolated. We also don't have great strikers, so unlikely they're going to magic something out of nothing. As it is though, people get far too hung up on formations. The friendly against Denmark would've been classed as a 4-4-2 by most, given Fletcher and Griffiths were both on. But for the most part, it was 4-2-3-1 again. And looked pretty good. EDIT: For those mentioning a 3-5-2, I'd actually be interested to see how we managed it. Anya and Hutton would probably feel more free charging forward from that position, and they're both pretty capable of defending if they get the head screwed on and track back as required. It also means we can play three in the middle with rotating roles as we see fit. And two forwards, one out and out, and one ideally linking defence and attack. BUT. 3-5-2 needs three well organised center backs. We struggle to scrape together two. It's true that having three in there might give us a bit more solidity, but it could also magnify how shite the three are when they're put together as a unit. As someone said earlier, throwing more weak players into our weak position isn't automatically going to make us better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiviLion Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Forget the Gibraltar games, I was thinking about the goal he setup in Dortmund, the goal he made key pass for in Warsaw & the goal he scored against Poland at Hampden. He's done better than a lot of others in the team. The TA section of P&B is for moaning only, please take this sensible post elsewhere. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 What a fucking moron. Barca and Bayern play 4-2-3-1 and win all their games, so thats the tactic we should use. But wait, Spain and Germany play without a real centre forward and win World Cups, so thats how we should play! Can't see how it won't work for us if it works for them! Barca have played 4-3-3 exclusively for about 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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