stewsy14 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Interested to know everyone's thoughts on their club paying the national minimum wage. Probably not an issue at the higher echelons of our game, but could definitely be one for the lower league clubs. Players on professional contracts being paid £10 or £20 a week and being asked to train for 2 hours twice a week and be at games for 3 or 4 hours on a Saturday, call it 8 hours in total and for an over 25 year old, clubs could b looking at £60 a week to stay within minimum wage guidelines. Or clubs go for an all amateur structure and pay nothing and then lose the residual value of their players in terms of transfer fees! Thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Why limit this just to the juniors? Sure there'll be plenty senior clubs the above would apply to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee bubba Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 If this was to be enforced the only option would be for clubs to sign players on an amateur contract. Very few clubs could afford to keep 18 players on £60 a week, a wage bill of £4320 a month. It would put all but the bigger clubs out the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lang Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Plus expenses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passbackdave Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Would kill the wee teams and the bigger teams that pay better wages now will just give players better win bonuses so don't think it would take off tbh Mon the papers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewsy15 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Think it's more a matter of how clubs survive if this legislation is enforced at our level. If we're given no choice, the only route is that of amateurs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 A few seasons ago it was muted that clubs should be paying players a minimum of 9 hours per week at NMW. This was all around HMRC trying to get a grip on players making untaxed monies from Jnr football They wanted to force some of the larger clubs into doing paye How that ended I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Gilmore Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Can you imagine paying minimum wage for coaches and managers that dwarf the hours put in by players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig O'Lea Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Players don't need to be amateurs when not getting a wage. A player of professional status can be signed on a professional non-contract basis which means he retains his professional status, is a signed player until the end of the registration period but should only receive expenses incurred. A junior player is signed either as a professional contract, a professional non-contract or an amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlowe Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself/what-counts-as-self-employed UK Gov. HMRC web-site. You can be both employed and self-employed at the same time, e.g. if you work for an employer during the day and run your own business in the evenings. Players should contract as a self-employed person with the club. Are there any HMRC rules preventing this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I can see a return to the old brown envelopes slipped under the table if this came to pass and the smaller clubs only signing players on a non contract professional or amateur basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewsy14 Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 Would those signed on a non contract basis be viewed the same as someone on a zero hours contract? Not guaranteed an income but due minimum wage for hours worked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpollok Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Why the question now? The NMW of £6.70 would still have been £50+ a week based in your 8 hours a week, and has been around for quite a while (all be it previously it was £6.50 and lower etc) So a £50 a week bill per player on a squad is around £40k annually. I doubt many clubs outside super leagues have that sort of wage bill. So how do they do it just now. Maybe I am just cynical but is their a personal interest in your post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig O'Lea Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Would those signed on a non contract basis be viewed the same as someone on a zero hours contract? Not guaranteed an income but due minimum wage for hours worked? I would say not. They are 'working' with the agreement that they are not seeking wages, just like the wee woman in the charity shop, which isn't working as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vollyman Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The National Living Wage came into effect on the 1st April and all employers must pay employees aged 25 or over £7.20 per hour. Should the government apply this to Junior football clubs then most clubs would be forced to sign players as amateurs Many clubs are subject to p.a.y.e. And players pay tax therefore the result of government action would result in a loss of revenue to the tax man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig O'Lea Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The National Living Wage came into effect on the 1st April and all employers must pay employees aged 25 or over £7.20 per hour. Should the government apply this to Junior football clubs then most clubs would be forced to sign players as amateurs Many clubs are subject to p.a.y.e. And players pay tax therefore the result of government action would result in a loss of revenue to the tax man. Voluntary workers are exempt from the legislation. So as I said earlier, a player of professional status could be signed on a professional non-contract basis which means they agree to 'work' for no wages just like voluntary workers all over the country. A professional player wouldn't need to revert to amateur status to sign for a junior club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpollok Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The National Living Wage came into effect on the 1st April and all employers must pay employees aged 25 or over £7.20 per hour. Should the government apply this to Junior football clubs then most clubs would be forced to sign players as amateurs Many clubs are subject to p.a.y.e. And players pay tax therefore the result of government action would result in a loss of revenue to the tax man. I get all that, however I don't get why the extra £4 per week has now made this thread. The NMW existing before the living wage ( which as you point out is for 25 and over of which there is plenty in junior football that are under 25.) So the 'problem' has existed for a long time and hasn't been an issue so why the question now from the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The original poster supports Forth so perhaps worried his club going to have to comply to Living Wage and end up out of business as only Super League teams would likely be paying Living Wage. But as discussed on this thread clubs can sign players as amateurs or on professional non contract basis to avoid requiring to pay Living Wage l. The players being paid less than living wage are happy enough to play for £0 to £40 a week or they wouldn't be turning up for training and on Saturdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewsy15 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Question came about following a discussion at a game the other week, concern was raised about the possible impact on lower division clubs in terms of national living wage and what would happen if any player raised the issue with the low pay unit! Nothing more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself/what-counts-as-self-employed UK Gov. HMRC web-site. You can be both employed and self-employed at the same time, e.g. if you work for an employer during the day and run your own business in the evenings. Players should contract as a self-employed person with the club. Are there any HMRC rules preventing this ? Aye and they're pretty obvious. You need to sign a contract with a club. That stops you playing for other clubs. There are zero ways of spinning that as not being an employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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