Team 16?

[Whitburn Vale]

.........and that's the flaw in the whole thing.

Agreed Burnie Man,this has been done to death,at the start of every scottish cup campaign when the teams from the juniors and LL/HL etc are pitted against one another it gets dragged out or like now at the end of season,especially when teams are about to elected to the LL(this time for the last time). Unless the SFA/SJFA and the league's finally get round the table and thrash out tier 5,ie Highland league,West Lowland league,East Lowland league and below then we're all just gnashing or teeth in vain!! Unfortunately for now we'll just have to get on with it,City are now the first Scottish club to play their way from non league to the SPFL and another club or two will finally bring the LL up to 16 teams(please no Edusport). It is disappointing about the D&G teams,especially as St.Cuthberts have a great set up now and would be a great asset to LL but like Threave I get their arguments,maybe D&G can only support 2 LL teams(Dalbeattie/Gretna).

[Burnie_man]

Agreed Burnie Man,this has been done to death,at the start of every scottish cup campaign when the teams from the juniors and LL/HL etc are pitted against one another it gets dragged out or like now at the end of season,especially when teams are about to elected to the LL(this time for the last time). Unless the SFA/SJFA and the league's finally get round the table and thrash out tier 5,ie Highland league,West Lowland league,East Lowland league and below then we're all just gnashing or teeth in vain!! Unfortunately for now we'll just have to get on with it,City are now the first Scottish club to play their way from non league to the SPFL and another club or two will finally bring the LL up to 16 teams(please no Edusport). It is disappointing about the D&G teams,especially as St.Cuthberts have a great set up now and would be a great asset to LL but like Threave I get their arguments,maybe D&G can only support 2 LL teams(Dalbeattie/Gretna).

 

 

I wonder if a LL (West) would be better placed to support the D&G clubs?  Dalbeattie, Gretna, Threave, St.Cuthberts, BSC, Cumbernauld, East Kilbride would be a sound base to then add (I know I know), some Ayrshire/Glasgow Juniors.

 

I think they would be more likely to buy into it.

[Whitburn Vale]

I wonder if a LL (West) would be better placed to support the D&G clubs? Dalbeattie, Gretna, Threave, St.Cuthberts, BSC, Cumbernauld, East Kilbride would be a sound base to then add (I know I know), some Ayrshire/Glasgow Juniors.

I think they would be more likely to buy into it.

Defo burnie man,infact I think I would be a game changer for the D&G clubs and the big junior clubs,we can only live in hope!!!

[Grim O'Grady]

If it would get the Juniors involved then why not a 3 League their 5, how would the play-offs work though?

Grimbo

[The Old Northerner]

If it would get the Juniors involved then why not a 3 League their 5, how would the play-offs work though?

Grimbo

 

You could start with an open draw involving Team 42, West LL, East LL, HL. Semi-finals and final. Not perfect but not too different from what's on offer now. Team 42 could be emptied in the semis but that's about it

[lionel hutz]

You could start with an open draw involving Team 42, West LL, East LL, HL. Semi-finals and final. Not perfect but not too different from what's on offer now. Team 42 could be emptied in the semis but that's about it

This. 

[Grim O'Grady]

You could start with an open draw involving Team 42, West LL, East LL, HL. Semi-finals and final. Not perfect but not too different from what's on offer now. Team 42 could be emptied in the semis but that's about it

The SPFL wouldn't vote for that yet, too soon. They'd only want to play off against the winner of tier 5 only & who could blame them?

I doubt they'd even except a 1 match play-off final either. There must be a way forward eventually.

It's still early days of the pyramid, changes will happen but obviously at our level we need the unity to make it a possibility. It's up to the Juniors to make an effort too.

Grimbo

[Dead]

The Scottish league set up is way out of kilter with the rest of the world. No team should ever be involved in a relegation play-off.

My club should have gone down as should the other clubs in 2nd bottom place in the leagues eg Kilmarnock. Apart from what that would mean in the pro leagues, for the playoffs offs coming up into the 2nd division it frees up a play off space and makes the playoffs a way more positive thing for the club's involved.

Personally, if my club survives in the next year or more I never want to be relegated via a playoff ever again. I'd rather just be relegated due to league placing.

It's a cruel way to go out of the league after more than 3000 scottish league games and I wouldn't want any other club to every go through it.

[Burnie_man]

You could start with an open draw involving Team 42, West LL, East LL, HL. Semi-finals and final. Not perfect but not too different from what's on offer now. Team 42 could be emptied in the semis but that's about it

Yip, that's it. Two semi finals with a one-off final at a neutral venue. We need to move towards a three region set-up, and the Juniors need to send out positive signals in that regard.

[Wilky1878]

Yip, that's it. Two semi finals with a one-off final at a neutral venue. We need to move towards a three region set-up, and the Juniors need to send out positive signals in that regard.

It's a two way street in that sense. The way it seems to me is that the spfl don't want to listen to the juniors and the juniors don't want to listen to the spfl leaving us with a half arsed pyramid and a but of a stand off.

Ideally, the north juniors make the plunge soon and get a few success stories their. This might entice the likes of linlithgow rose or even sauchie juniors (just picked two random teams as an example) then more may follow which would then allow a proper pyramid to be set up.

I think the problem just now is if the spfl say they'll go three tiers at tier 5 or even add a west league to team 6 they need a guarantee that they will have enough teams involved to go with it.

Too much self interest across all systems are really holding us back here.

[HibeeJibee]

There are 2 regions under SPFL2 as (1) SFL clubs always insisted on 1 nationwide feeder and that was as far a compromise as they were prepared to go; (2) they insisted upon them being licensed and there were (and still are) only enough licensed clubs outwith HL for one league.

 

I don't think anyone doubts that population, transport geography, distribution of non-league clubs and so on all points to a 3-region set-up in an ideal world.

[LongTimeLurker]

The part-time SFL2 & SFL3 clubs no longer hold a majority in the new voting structure of the SPFL so it will be easier to make changes in future than it was prior to the merger. The SPFL rule book leaves it up to the SFA to identify the club to take on club 42, so there is nothing carved in stone about it having to be the winner of an HL vs LL playoff.

[Marshmallo]

There are 2 regions under SPFL2 as (1) SFL clubs always insisted on 1 nationwide feeder and that was as far a compromise as they were prepared to go; (2) they insisted upon them being licensed and there were (and still are) only enough licensed clubs outwith HL for one league.

Would this likely still be the case? I can't imagine why anyone would be against visiting, say, Newlandsfield, but happy to go to Lochburn Park.

[HibeeJibee]

I wouldn't think there is any chance of the SFA and SPFL slacking their requirement for an Entry licence in the level immediately below SPFL2.

 

As you allude it's hardly an extreme set of criteria to reach, anyway...

 

... although equally Newlandsfield (and Lochburn) isn't representative of the whole non-league spectrum of ground standards.

 

There needs to be some "basic standard" and one that is largely measurable, not subjective.

[Hillonearth]

Would this likely still be the case? I can't imagine why anyone would be against visiting, say, Newlandsfield, but happy to go to Lochburn Park.

 

It certainly makes a bit of a joke of it when you compare places like Newlandsfield unlikely to be licensed - I assume merely due to lack of floodlights which I don't ever see being added to there, so hemmed in by housing as it is these days - in comparison to some of the places that have been deemed suitable for Tier 5.

[honestly united]

Its a bit of a catch 22 at the moment, as there are not enough licensed clubs in the Lowland catchment area for an East / West split given the struggle to get to a 16 team league, but a lot of clubs are probably not going to go for licenses as they dont want to play in the full lowland catchment area due to travel but would prefer an East / West split.

 

The SPFL / SFA really need to get all the parties in a room and sort things out.

 

If they came out with a 3 year plan along the lines of tier 5 with 3 regions North / East / West - top league has to be licensed clubs and below that you dont have to be - and further regionalisation at say Tier 7(ie West Central, West Ayrshire, West South as an example). Rename the Junior Cup the Regional League Cup open to all teams at Tier 5 and below. 

[Marshmallo]

I wouldn't think there is any chance of the SFA and SPFL slacking their requirement for an Entry licence in the level immediately below SPFL2.

As you allude it's hardly an extreme set of criteria to reach, anyway...

... although equally Newlandsfield (and Lochburn) isn't representative of the whole non-league spectrum of ground standards.

There needs to be some "basic standard" and one that is largely measurable, not subjective.

I agree but perhaps they need to shift where the cutoff is too. It seems a bit arbitrary just now to have it at tier 5/6.

Full time/part time might be a starting point, alternatively do it at a national league level.

[HibeeJibee]

It certainly makes a bit of a joke of it when you compare places like Newlandsfield unlikely to be licensed - I assume merely due to lack of floodlights which I don't ever see being added to there, so hemmed in by housing as it is these days - in comparison to some of the places that have been deemed suitable for Tier 5.

 

Floodlights aren't required for licensing or for LL.

 

It's quite possible that Newslandsfield isn't compliant, or is compliant but Pollok overall aren't (or don't want to).

 

 

 

I agree but perhaps they need to shift where the cutoff is too. It seems a bit arbitrary just now to have it at tier 5/6.

Full time/part time might be a starting point, alternatively do it at a national league level.

 

That's effectively the case just now. Bronze (with silver floodlights) applies to Premiership/Championship... Entry (with bronze floodlights) applies to SPFL1/SPFL2... Entry applies to HL & LL.

 

In terms of crowd facilities Entry is pretty basic... No floodlights, no seats, you only need cover for 100, and so forth. I don't think you even need a set of turnstiles. When you consider it used to be 500 seats, floodlights, etc. it's markedly slackened.

 

Equally they aren't going to have no criteria below full-time football, or below SPFL2, as they won't want clubs throwing all their money at players while getting promoted - or acting as the landing point for clubs getting relegated - and playing off public parks, decrepit hovels, and so on.

[lionel hutz]

Equally they aren't going to have no criteria below full-time football, or below SPFL2, as they won't want clubs throwing all their money at players while getting promoted - or acting as the landing point for clubs getting relegated - and playing off public parks, decrepit hovels, and so on.

Central Park?

[The Mantis]

The licensing criteria have been posted here umpteen times, it's time people realised the CLUB gets the license, not the ground.

The ground is part of it but the SFA examines the last 3 years' accounts, coach qualifications, first aider qualifications, youth setup, etc. You also need a whole load of policies regarding child protection, stewarding, smoking, etc. Most clubs have these on their website. Whitehill certainly do, at www.whitehillwelfare.co.uk .

Having been to Newlandsfield I can't see what would prevent Pollok reaching the necessary standard for the ground. Same with Central Park btw. It may be a dump but that's not the point. It's perfectly safe for the crowds it gets. Other clubs like Albion Rovers and Stenny just require to close the parts that are not suitable.