Snakebite Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Pretty interesting double page spread in the Sunday Mail today from Gordon Waddell. Not sure its online, but here it is from the print edition today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I don't think you can disagree with the aim of more indoor pitches and better coaching (however you define the latter). We've got 4 indoor just now, but the issue with getting to 10 is cost... do they not cost c£20-25M each? Obviously getting every kid doing 2 sports goes beyond football. As for their 5-point manifesto, I just don't see: (1) - 5pts League bonus for fielding average of 2x U21 players per game (2) - turning the League Cup into a quasi-Development/U23 Cup (4) - reinstating the Reserve League happening. I don't think clubs would wear (1)... I don't think clubs or fans would wear (2) as it would clearly undermine its attractiveness... and they stopped (4) as it cost too much to maintain sufficient squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I don't think you can disagree with the aim of more indoor pitches and better coaching (however you define the latter). We've got 4 indoor just now, but the issue with getting to 10 is cost... do they not cost c£20-25M each? As for their 5-point manifesto, being realistic I just don't see: (1) - 5pts League bonus for fielding average of 2x U21 players per game (2) - turning the League Cup into a quasi-Development/U23 Cup (4) - reinstating the Reserve League happening. I don't think clubs would wear (1)... I don't think clubs or fans would wear (2)... and they stopped (3) as it cost too much to maintain sufficient squads. The Sunday Mail/Daily Record could close and give way the land to build another indoor pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The Sunday Mail/Daily Record could close and give way the land to build another indoor pitch. Ironically their print works is built on the old 50 pitches site, I think there is only 1 pitch there now. So close the record and we can get 49 pitches back. Job done, WC 2018 here we come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 I don't think you can disagree with the aim of more indoor pitches and better coaching (however you define the latter). We've got 4 indoor just now, but the issue with getting to 10 is cost... do they not cost c£20-25M each? Obviously getting every kid doing 2 sports goes beyond football. As for their 5-point manifesto, I just don't see: (1) - 5pts League bonus for fielding average of 2x U21 players per game (2) - turning the League Cup into a quasi-Development/U23 Cup (4) - reinstating the Reserve League happening. I don't think clubs would wear (1)... I don't think clubs or fans would wear (2) as it would clearly undermine its attractiveness... and they stopped (4) as it cost too much to maintain sufficient squads. I think in terms of improving coaching it would mean raising the number of coaches proportionately, when compared with Iceland. Unfortunately like you say, I don't see where the finance is coming from to pay the wages of extra coaches or to spend millions on indoor facilities. After the 4th indoor pitch is completed soon in Edinburgh are there even any proposed? I seen an interview with Stevie Lennon who plays in Iceland now where I'm sure he said the club he is playing for are in the process of building a full size indoor pitch, so they aren't exactly stopping either themselves despite already dwarfing us. Edit: here it is Lennon says: The facilities are unbelievable. When I was at Murray Park, it was great having an indoor hall. But at FH, we have two indoor halls and were building another full-size one. These facilities are all over Iceland. Back home, when kids are five or six theyll play for a boys club and get picked up by a professional team at 11 or 12. Straight away in Iceland, the small kids come into their community club. By the time they get to 11 or 12, theyre training every night of the week. In Scotland it might only be two nights a week of coaching. Its all about hours and touches of the ball. Theyre getting two or three times the amount of coaching as kids back home. Iceland have more qualified coaches per head of population than any other country in the world. So even at a young age, theyre getting quality coaching at UEFA B licence minimum. If youre at a boys club back in Glasgow, with all due respect, youll probably be getting coached by someones dad who is a volunteer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Does it say anything in there about the quality of their manager as thats what ultimately cost us our place in France. Firstly we had the one man wrecking ball of Levein who stuffed our rankings and got us a real tough group. Strachan has been really good in places but playing his pals instead of the best players available ultimately ended our hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I think in terms of improving coaching it would mean raising the number of coaches proportionately, when compared with Iceland. Keith Jackson, also DR/SM stable, argued on Sportsound we'd "too many" qualified coaches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 Keith Jackson, also DR/SM stable, argued on Sportsound we'd "too many" qualified coaches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisal Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 We're good at copying everyone else. We copied the Dutch youth model that produced the players that have just failed to qualify for Euro2016. I think there is a better than even chance that the Icelandic youths of today won't qualify for a major tournament. I think as well as sending coaches overseas it would be a good idea for our youth teams to play more games against the best youth teams. We are quite isolated in Scotland and a lot of young players get on the subs bench in our leagues and think they've made it. If they played regularly against better players of their own age, it would help their skill and attitude. It needn't be that expensive either. There are plenty youth teams in England that are a far ahead of anything we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 "We need more ex-pros, fewer certificates" IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundesliga Boy Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I don't see where the finance is coming from to pay the wages of extra coaches or to spend millions on indoor facilities. After the 4th indoor pitch is completed soon in Edinburgh are there even any proposed? https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2014/09/26/new-multi-million-pound-dundee-sport-centre-to-be-based-at-caird-park/ https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2015/11/19/new-20m-centre-for-sports-set-to-arrive-in-dundee-by-2018/ It would appear that the 5th indoor facility will be built in Dundee at Caird Park at an estimated cost of £18 - £20 million. The local authority and Sportscotland will each contribute £5 million towards the overall cost of the project. Various other organisations are on board including the cities 2 main football clubs. At least by 2017/18 our 4 major cities will all have a state of the art full size indoor facility. Hopefully we'll reach the suggested 10 facilities in time with the aid of local and national government combined with the help of Sportscotland, however with finances tight this could be some time away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 We have 1 indoor facility for every 1,000,000th person in this country but Iceland have 1 for every 30,000ish ( cant remember the exact figure ). That is a glaring problem surely? Infact when I tried to google the figure I stumbled across this from 2007 http://www.ksi.is/media/fraedsla/How_can_Iceland_produce_so_many_professional_football_players.pdf Really interesting. Look how far they have come since! Another thing that was mentioned on one of the Radio Stations, if a local school has a brand new 4g pitch and someone books to play on it, who is taking the money? Where is that money going? Back into the Council? These things should be free to play on for kids no matter how good or bad they are, if a kid wants to have a kick about with his mates they should be able to do so away from the horrific weather without having to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 "We need more ex-pros, fewer certificates" IIRC. That's the kind of nonsense that holds back football - actual ability to play football has no bearing on whether or not you are a good coach or manager. Being able to beat 6 men and rasp one into the top corner from 40 yards in the World Cup Final is great but if the peak of your playing career was playing left back once for the 12th Perth BB team then that doesn't mean you would automatically be a lesser manager or coach. It should always be about ability to coach and ability to manage, the old "show us yer medals" pish is what holds us back. Klopp and Ferguson were bog standard players, Mourinho wasn't even that and yet they have had far better managerial careers than the likes of playing greats Maradona or Bobby Moore. An inability to see that its a different skillset involved in playing and coaching says a lot about Keith Jackson, not as much as "wealth off the radar" though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yeah Keith, cos a generation of volunteers and un-qualifed ex professional players has been such a rip roaring succesful formula.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Also. St. Mirren Park cost £8 million to build, yet these things are supposedly ranging from 20-25m? Someone help me out here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I imagine it is pretty expensive to engineer a solid roof high enough to play football underneath, strong enough to resist heavy rain/snow, and spanning 100m by 70m without any supports. Nothing in construction seems cheap nowadays, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Also. St. Mirren Park cost £8 million to build, yet these things are supposedly ranging from 20-25m? Someone help me out here... That was a good few years ago now. Maybe 5-6 years? Wouldn't surprise me if the materials have shot up in price like everything else. There must be something that can be done, St. Mirrens dome thing is pretty unique albiet when the high winds kick in it needs taken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Domes and indoor 'barns' of less than full size are clearly a lot cheaper; a number of clubs like Hibs and Rangers have indoor barns, IIRC? Also are all the Icelandic indoors of full height, or are some of them fine for kids playing inside but the roof will be too low for adults? Maybe a question of priorities. Henry McLeish put the total for football facility improvements here at £0.5bn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I imagine it is pretty expensive to engineer a solid roof high enough to play football underneath, strong enough to resist heavy rain/snow, and spanning 100m by 70m without any supports. Nothing in construction seems cheap nowadays, anyway. £20-£25 million still feels like someone is getting ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It does seem exorbitant, but that's been the cost across a number of builds, tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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