Community Clubs - What are they and what should they be?

[Wishaw Secretary]

i see you use the phrase REAL COMMUNITY CLUB in your post . I think most junior clubs are feeling the pressure from the sfa community team programme which ( in aa dales case ) we have a team off kids and youths brought into a new set up with no intrest in the junior club . Merely ticking boxes . Not educating the kids on the history off junior football or local clubs . They go thru the ranks and diss appear from football at 16-19 . a real community structure focusing on communities should have been the objective . ALL JUNIOR CLUBS HAVE FOCUSED ON THE COMMUNITY FOR DECADES YET NOW STRUGGLE BECAUSE THE NEW FANS ARE GIVEN YET ANOTHER REASON TO STAY AWAY ..

I think you have correctly identified an emerging 'issue' now facing Junior Clubs up and down the Country. Perhaps the moderators might consider moving this to a new thread under the heading Community Clubs - whilst this specific topic is of considerable interest it is not really about Wishaw.

[Man on a bike]

I think you have correctly identified an emerging 'issue' now facing Junior Clubs up and down the Country. Perhaps the moderators might consider moving this to a new thread under the heading Community Clubs - whilst this specific topic is of considerable interest it is not really about Wishaw.

To avoid confusion with the SFA "community" clubs that merely tick boxes of inclusivity and such, I would prefer a thread called Real Community Clubs that talks about junior clubs, and how inseparable they are from the history and traditions of their communities. This is real community, not a label that has little or no substance.

Let's talk about what junior clubs do today with their communities, but also what they would LIKE to do.

As a bit of background, a club from a mining area in 1921 played a benefit game to raise £12 something for the soup kitchen. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(1921))

With food banks now so common, what would the junior club committees of 1921 have done to help?

[The Old Northerner]

Topic created from a few posts in the Wishaw thread

[Burnie_man]

Interesting topic.

We're now a Community Club, with full SFA and West Lothian Council accreditation. We have teams through all the age ranges down to soccer school for the bairns, we have an Amateur team, and also a Ladies team playing in the Scottish League set-up and a couple of younger girls teams. I'm not as close to it as I used to be but there's a lot of people putting in a lot of hard work to make it work and give the kids in the area a chance to succeed in fitba, as an example I think the U11's (not entirely sure), had to fold at the end of the season and not move up an age group as the whole lot of them were signed by SPFL clubs.

It's not all smooth, I don't think we have an U19 and U21 team at the moment as players drift away from football and its hard to keep these teams going, although we currently have around 7 players in the Junior squad who all came through the U19 and U21 system (and younger) at some point. So it does work.

It opens up a whole lot of grant schemes as well and a lot of people will know of our knew facilities, of which a 3G is currently being installed.We probably had some of the worst facilities in the area previous to that, but now all clubs in the village can benefit.

So to the point, we are a Real Community Club, and work hard to be an important part of the local community. It's easy to say it's just a tick box exercise, it most definitely isn't, and more Junior clubs need to look at this as a way forward.

[The Old Northerner]

Haddington Athletic Community Football Club was formed in 2006 (IIRC) with the various accreditations coming a few years later - when these schemes started to be promoted by the SFA, etc. I think the exemplar we based our efforts on was Kilwinning's setup, rather than an SFA template.

The CFC was created as an attempt to unify the competing demands of the various football clubs in the town. We had the Juniors & Haddington Amateurs as adult teams, with Haddington BC, Garleton and Haddington Star as the youth clubs. There have been women's and girl's clubs in fits and starts as well. There was unfortunately no unanimity with 2 out of the 5 clubs, cautious to say the least, and it was the remaining 3 that formed the CFC with the Council's backing.

The first real succcess for the Community Club was to get a decent pavilion built at Whittingehame Drive to replace the unplumbed and unheated containers that had served our 7 a side (and younger) squads for far too long. We were able to tap into the Cashback for Communities fund to match the capital spend that ELC had allocated for improvements

The 3G came a couple of years later - and the various communities in East Lothian played a huge part in that. The ELC/SFA plan was to build a Toryglen Mark II at Meadowmill. This place is notoriously difficult to get to without your own transport and so ELC/SFA were told that if it was built, it would not be used by the East Lothian clubs (and they would have to ferry in Edinburgh based teams in an effort to make it pay). The plans were shelved in favour of putting 3G pitches down in each of the 6 towns in East Lothian. All 6 pitches are now in place and, to the best of my knowledge, all very busy indeed.

As for coming up through the ranks, we share some of the problems outlined above - we've now got a U17 squad for the first time in a couple of seasons and it's hoped that they will stick together to U19 and beyond. Below that though, we're very healthy, with some of the youngest age groups oversubscribed until we can get new coaches trained up and started. These are the hope for the future

[rtg1971]

well where do i start with this thread. One can see why people reckon its a tickbox exercise when there is set criteria to move up the quality mark ladders, i can understand that. When i created Gartcairn i took it upon myself to embark on the scheme simply as i believe the SFA and everyone else connected to the higher echelons of football know better than me on how to run one team/club/academy.

Yes there is the monatory issues with having to get coaches up to certain levels but hey it makes sense, does it not? The better qualified coaches at PROPER grass roots levels then you have to believe the coaching levels are better - please dont talk about level 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3 here as they are turn up, fall asleep, get your cert courses so the coaches attending only take out of the course what they want.

Moving on to community - its been a while since Gartcairn "ticked those boxes" but at the time it was awarded based on 6+ (maybe 8 cant remember) teams all of whom coaches had to be 1.2 or higher and there also had to be a girls team. We also had to show that we worked within the community (will get on to that later).

On to legacy quality mark and you had to do things like, run tournaments, festivals, after school clubs, lunchtime clubs and possibly things outwith football.

So on to Gartcairn purely as a legacy club. We offer a festival once per year indoors at ravenscraig. We do 5 nights after school care in 5 different primary schools, we do lunchtime clubs, tried breakfast clubs but they didnt really work - all these primary school events are FREE i may add. We now have a netball academy and are just about to announce a handball academy. This is all working within and leading what is known as the Airdrie sports hub where the simple focus is to offer children a variety of activity at an affordable (if not free) cost.

Re the comment about the food bank - we raised in excess of £500 cash and also had about 8/9 trolley full of food which was donated to the Airdrie Foodbank and we shall continue to do so each year.

We sponsored the first womans only football tournament over in Malawi to the tune of about £500 and then sent one of our own coaches out there a few weeks ago to the cost of £2k and armed him with 50+ footballs, bibs, markers and roughly about 120 old strips to give to the malawi primary school kids.

As an academy we can only try to do as much as we can over our own voluntary time, some people take it with open arms, others want to scream abuse at you - hey ho each to their own.

One simple stat - we have 63 coaches, each coach averaging 6 hours of their own time per week and of course eedjits like me who are more like 40 hours per week. This is all free and one way or another its put in to the community. Whilst many people would say if Gartcairn folded tomorrow these teams would still exist, the same children would still play football but 63*6 = 378 per week = a normal joe blogs works 40 hours per week = just shy of TEN full time members of staff that our community would instantly lose if we had to fold.

Its something other teams dont shout about enough - just how much hours do your voluntary staff put back in to your community i.e. how many full time workers would your council have to find to replace you! Once you work that out your grant application issues usually dont have such a rocky road to fruition.

[Man on a bike]

well where do i start with this thread. One can see why people reckon its a tickbox exercise when there is set criteria to move up the quality mark ladders, i can understand that. When i created Gartcairn i took it upon myself to embark on the scheme simply as i believe the SFA and everyone else connected to the higher echelons of football know better than me on how to run one team/club/academy.

Yes there is the monatory issues with having to get coaches up to certain levels but hey it makes sense, does it not? The better qualified coaches at PROPER grass roots levels then you have to believe the coaching levels are better - please dont talk about level 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3 here as they are turn up, fall asleep, get your cert courses so the coaches attending only take out of the course what they want.

Moving on to community - its been a while since Gartcairn "ticked those boxes" but at the time it was awarded based on 6+ (maybe 8 cant remember) teams all of whom coaches had to be 1.2 or higher and there also had to be a girls team. We also had to show that we worked within the community (will get on to that later).

On to legacy quality mark and you had to do things like, run tournaments, festivals, after school clubs, lunchtime clubs and possibly things outwith football.

So on to Gartcairn purely as a legacy club. We offer a festival once per year indoors at ravenscraig. We do 5 nights after school care in 5 different primary schools, we do lunchtime clubs, tried breakfast clubs but they didnt really work - all these primary school events are FREE i may add. We now have a netball academy and are just about to announce a handball academy. This is all working within and leading what is known as the Airdrie sports hub where the simple focus is to offer children a variety of activity at an affordable (if not free) cost.

Re the comment about the food bank - we raised in excess of £500 cash and also had about 8/9 trolley full of food which was donated to the Airdrie Foodbank and we shall continue to do so each year.

We sponsored the first womans only football tournament over in Malawi to the tune of about £500 and then sent one of our own coaches out there a few weeks ago to the cost of £2k and armed him with 50+ footballs, bibs, markers and roughly about 120 old strips to give to the malawi primary school kids.

As an academy we can only try to do as much as we can over our own voluntary time, some people take it with open arms, others want to scream abuse at you - hey ho each to their own.

One simple stat - we have 63 coaches, each coach averaging 6 hours of their own time per week and of course eedjits like me who are more like 40 hours per week. This is all free and one way or another its put in to the community. Whilst many people would say if Gartcairn folded tomorrow these teams would still exist, the same children would still play football but 63*6 = 378 per week = a normal joe blogs works 40 hours per week = just shy of TEN full time members of staff that our community would instantly lose if we had to fold.

Its something other teams dont shout about enough - just how much hours do your voluntary staff put back in to your community i.e. how many full time workers would your council have to find to replace you! Once you work that out your grant application issues usually dont have such a rocky road to fruition.

I have the utmost respect for clubs who go down the route of community clubs as described above. The commitment from those running the clubs and the many volunteers is quite amazing.

Yes it is hard work. Yes people give up so much of their own time.

The 3 detailed posts are from clubs who have chosen the sfa definition of community club. And of course through sitting through many presentations and production of business cases the story is more readily available.

This should not be a discussion in my opinion of the SFA version of how best to attract Government funding. Or even to start by building something that would attract funding. That is the cart before the horse.

This is for junior clubs to put their stake in the ground for the type of clubs they are and the traditions they represent, and why those traditions are as important today as they were then.

But it is not an either or. We can have those clubs formed in the 1870s, 1880s being proud of who they are. While the 21st century SFA community clubs also be proud, but for different reasons.

[Burnie_man]

The 3 detailed posts are from clubs who have chosen the sfa definition of community club. And of course through sitting through many presentations and production of business cases the story is more readily available.

With respect, regardless of who's definition we're talking about , to me it's just common sense. All clubs in a town/village/area coming together under the one banner to provide progression for the kids, better facilities, and get the community more involved makes complete sense.

The game has moved on, and these Junior clubs who perhaps look down their noses at Community Clubs are going to be the losers long term.

[The Old Northerner]

The 3 detailed posts are from clubs who have chosen the sfa definition of community club. And of course through sitting through many presentations and production of business cases the story is more readily available.

I do think it important to point out that the SFA, when drawing up their particular guidelines, were quite actively looking at any examples of best practice out there. There's probably more from clubs like Kilwinning in the SFA version than original SFA thinking.

[HTG]

The development of community clubs in their modern sense is not at odds with the definition of a club within its community. But there is a recognition that funding has to be aimed at specific projects which have specific football based outcomes. It's a fact of life that obesity in children is a huge issue these days so any work done to help kids lead healthier lifestyles should be applauded.

Recently, I've seen Gala Fairydean take to the pitch with a child allocated to each player which is a good thing to do.

I've contributed to a foodbank collection at the Bo'ness v Linlithgow game and know that Penicuik v Bo'ness did the same thing.

Bo'ness has approval from the council to move forward with the next stage of its community hub development - the clue is in the name and it's about more than football.

LRCFC made presentations to local charities on Saturday at our junior cup tie. Representatives of the charities were hosted by LRFC throughout the afternoon. Here's the Facebook update from the weekend (I was at the event in Augustat Prestonfield and it was fantastic to see so many people there and teams from Bo'ness schools as well as Linlithgow):

"On August 5th this year, Linlithgow Rose Community Football Club held an open day. Our club was selected for this after receiving a hat trick of National Grassroots Football Awards, which culminated in the club being awarded the prestigious title of Grassroots Football Club of the year.

The event was attended by over 400 adults and children with various events taking place during the day, including everything from Beat the Goalie to walking football for the over 50s!

A substantial amount of money was rasied on the day, and our committee decided to split the monies raised across local charities.

The Local Charities selected were , The 4th West Lothian Scout Group, Donaldsons School and Dave Deep Sea Patersons walk for jock

Representatives from each group were invited along to the Rose Scottish Cup tie today and were presented with their cheques by LRCFC Vice President Jim Gilfeather and LRCFC Head of Community involvement John Adams.

LRCFC would like to thank everyone who made the open day a huge success, coaches , players, officials and parents.

LRCFC would also like to thank Jim Harkins and Les Donaldson who organised hospitality for our guests today.

Well done to everyone involved."

[Harry Beaver]

Might sound petty and might offend a few people but tough.

A wee question about junior clubs and being part of the community............

How many junior clubs will lay a poppy wreath this Sunday which is or should be a community event, I know Auchinleck Talbot used to but haven't for about 10 years............shame on them.

A lot of junior clubs take from the community but put very little back granted running a football club isn't easy but a lot of clubs don't do themselves any favours in that respect.

[Marlowe]

Haddington has mentioned using Kilwinning as a model setup. This is not the Buffs, ie Kilwinning Rangers Junior Football Club. A separate entity is:-

http://kilwinningsportsclub.co.uk/ksc-teams/

In the recent turmoil of Kilwinning Rangers there were arrangements made by many interested parties to integrate all local sporting activities but the demise and rebirth of the 'BUFFS' kept the junior club as a separate entity based at the traditional Abbey Park whilst Kilwinning Sports Club has an enhanced sporting complex at Pennyburn on the other side of town, as local Kilwinninionians refer to as ' the Glasgow Overspill'.

Kilwinning has distinct zones of interest referred as, Dirrans, Corsehill, Woodwynd, Blacklands and anywhere else in the original town (before being enslaved within Irvine New Town) and Whitehurst Park and Pennyburn are interloupers and social creeps, depending of course on who you're talking to.

[The Old Northerner]

Haddington has mentioned using Kilwinning as a model setup. This is not the Buffs, ie Kilwinning Rangers Junior Football Club. A separate entity is:-

http://kilwinningsportsclub.co.uk/ksc-teams/

In the recent turmoil of Kilwinning Rangers there were arrangements made by many interested parties to integrate all local sporting activities but the demise and rebirth of the 'BUFFS' kept the junior club as a separate entity based at the traditional Abbey Park whilst Kilwinning Sports Club has an enhanced sporting complex at Pennyburn on the other side of town, as local Kilwinninionians refer to as ' the Glasgow Overspill'.

Kilwinning has distinct zones of interest referred as, Dirrans, Corsehill, Woodwynd, Blacklands and anywhere else in the original town (before being enslaved within Irvine New Town) and Whitehurst Park and Pennyburn are interloupers and social creeps, depending of course on who you're talking to.

Many thanks for the clarification

[Man on a bike]

Haddington has mentioned using Kilwinning as a model setup. This is not the Buffs, ie Kilwinning Rangers Junior Football Club. A separate entity is:-

http://kilwinningsportsclub.co.uk/ksc-teams/

In the recent turmoil of Kilwinning Rangers there were arrangements made by many interested parties to integrate all local sporting activities but the demise and rebirth of the 'BUFFS' kept the junior club as a separate entity based at the traditional Abbey Park whilst Kilwinning Sports Club has an enhanced sporting complex at Pennyburn on the other side of town, as local Kilwinninionians refer to as ' the Glasgow Overspill'.

Kilwinning has distinct zones of interest referred as, Dirrans, Corsehill, Woodwynd, Blacklands and anywhere else in the original town (before being enslaved within Irvine New Town) and Whitehurst Park and Pennyburn are interloupers and social creeps, depending of course on who you're talking to.

I think you have described the communities of Kilwinning very well.

A reality check for those who may sit in an ivory tower somewhere that tries to define communities based on post code or local authority label.

Just as a 'community' cannot be defined by post code, so communities have people beyond the kids who want to play fitba. These real people have social and health issues where help through a junior club would be easily funded. Many clubs do this already, but on an ad hoc basis.

[Burnie_man]

I think you have described the communities of Kilwinning very well.

A reality check for those who may sit in an ivory tower somewhere that tries to define communities based on post code or local authority label.

Just as a 'community' cannot be defined by post code, so communities have people beyond the kids who want to play fitba. These real people have social and health issues where help through a junior club would be easily funded. Many clubs do this already, but on an ad hoc basis.

Aye, and a few of those Community Clubs run the likes of 50+ walking football games, and open up their facilities for non-football related activities, even get involved with special needs kids who want to play the game.

That is all the more harder - perhaps even impossible - for stand alone Junior clubs with maybe less than 10 on a committee. They have enough work on their hands keeping the club going let alone anything else. However if they were part of a wider community club then the benefits are obvious.

[HibeeJibee]

It's also down to the funding situation... Some people won't like it but you are always going to struggle to get lottery, government or health support for a standalone club running one adult team - often paying wages to its players - compared to a community club with significant participation, kids, etc.

[HTG]

LRFC community club now has walking football for over 50s. It is held at a new facility in the town at the rugby club. That's a great example of a town where sport and facilities are really integrating. Sorry if this sounds like blowing a trumpet but I think there are lots of good stories of community engagement out there and over 50 walking football is an example of something that has taken off this year. Before setting it up the guy who has organised it has tried to learn lessons from places like Broxburn at local level and from the Dutch system.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

Interloupers

The most brutal word ever for me and one that's used when a person moves from one local Ayrshire town to another and stays in his " new " town for 70 years but is still regarded as an interlouper.

Interlouper is a favourite piece of wordage from small town facebook pages and the interloupers are to blame for all the towns wrongs

[Lokloyal]

The concept of community is great and all of the clubs working within that model and backdrop do superb work but I think within the huge urban mass of Glasgow just doesn't apply in the same way for the Lok and other Glasgow junior clubs.Local identity and community has really disappeared and we are just another sporting club amongst many and indeed many other distractions in a large city.Huge population changes and influxes to the area from all parts of the world have further complicated that position but the Club does its best to be part of that.If only the club could even use its ground and develop it as a sporting hub that would be great-Newlandsfield must be a hugely valuable bit of land to barter with

[clash city rocker]

There is a fantastic Community club in Kilbirnie and were the first to achieve legacy quality mark status in the southwest

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=3081&newsCategoryID=14&newsID=12003

but they are not directly affiliated to Ladeside and have no input in the club. Quite honestly if you are waiting to produce players from it to compete at a high level...you could have a long wait.