Hampden Diehard Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I am genuinely quite surprised with how low the hibs crowds were for this. Would have thought they would bring at least a couple of a hundred to games especially if the first team were not playing. I still believe that B teams overall would increase the crowds in the LL. Lets be honest it is probably currently averaging at 150ish per game which could be increased considerably with B team additions and especially the OF. And as a result bringing more money into the clubs The experience in Germany where some under-23 teams of Bundesliga clubs play at a pretty high level, is that no one is interested in going to see them. Schalke sometimes get a high of 500 at home matches, with more than half of them being visiting fans. Being honest, given the seriously flawed psychological make-up of many OF fans, do you want (say) 500 of them, fueled-up and in top voice with their party tunes and unfettered by PC Plod, at Innerleithen or wherever? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I get the impression that it is teams in the west that are more precious of the "Junior" status than those elsewhere, with little appetite at all for joining the pyramid. I'm wondering if the likes of Linlithgow really care if they're Juniors as long as their near neighbours are in the same league. Again, it's only an impression I'm getting from posts on here over the past few years, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger Junior sides around Edinburgh head for the LL within 5 years, provided they are accompanied by their rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankies Alive Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I get the impression that it is teams in the west that are more precious of the "Junior" status than those elsewhere, with little appetite at all for joining the pyramid. I'm wondering if the likes of Linlithgow really care if they're Juniors as long as their near neighbours are in the same league. Again, it's only an impression I'm getting from posts on here over the past few years, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger Junior sides around Edinburgh head for the LL within 5 years, provided they are accompanied by their rivals. I cant see any West Juniors being thrilled at the prospect of being forced to play in the SoS League should they gain a license! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 There are only 16 places in the LL and 15 are already taken with the possibility of a relegated SPFL team or Edusport taking the last place next season rather than a membership applicant. If I were Haddington I'd be wondering whether EoS entry would mean entry into this season's single table format or whether they could go back to having two divisions again next season, presumably with Haddington in the lower tier two promotions away from the LL. I don't think a mass migration is likely any time soon in the east. Beyond that I think you'll find most of the expressions of potential junior interest in the new fifth tier actually came from the west when the SFA was circulating preliminary info about it. From memory that included Clydebank, Rossvale, Rob Roy and St Roch's in the west, Haddington and Blackburn in the east, and Banks O'Dee up north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Would you be thrilled at the prospect of bein I cant see any West Juniors being thrilled at the prospect of being forced to play in the SoS League should they gain a license! Possibly. But I don't doubt with the help of SFA funding and grant to get the licensing and ground improvements, quite a few ambitious amateur teams would be against the concept of being courted into a WoS type setup underneath the LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Most of the grants made available went to the existing full members of the SFA and were targeted specifically at them in terms of the conditions on who could apply. The more clubs licensed the more snouts there are at the subsidy trough and the smaller the payouts received, so I don't think a large influx of new full members is on the SFA's agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tin man Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The play offs would be very successful in the lowland league between them n eos teams I think but the other side o that is theres no point if the teams in contention from eos avnt got facilities but if they have a think the eos teams would fancy their chances v 2nd bottom of lowland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'd be interested to understand what risks you perceive there are by remaining in the Juniors? We know we could be here forever and a day waiting for this mess to be resolved, but I noted the joy displayed by the club upon promotion to the Premierleague last season, and the anticipation of the challenge this season and building on it. Maybe risk is too strong a word but I (and this is a personal feeling) do have grave concerns about the medium to long term future of the Junior grade outwith its "heartlands" if no meaningful dialogue can take place. The SuperDuperLeague idea would have marginalised the North Region and I don't doubt that East Lothian (amongst others) could be regarded as equally peripheral in any future scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tin man Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Am a correct in saying Spartans eos can't get promoted even if they win league in future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Would you be thrilled at the prospect of bein I cant see any West Juniors being thrilled at the prospect of being forced to play in the SoS League should they gain a license! This. I dont see many (if any) west region clubs who would gamble on playing in the EOS or SOS Leagues over the current league set up. Would it not be conjusive for the LL management to take control of the EOSL & SOSL and look at the possibility of a similar league for the West as this might provide some more teams for the LL from this side of Scotland or are they just happy having it East dominated? There are some West Region clubs who want change to the current set up in the West Region and the SJFA as a whole but there is a very active majority that want nothing to change as they see it as a threat to tradition (this is only my opinion). Agree with Hampden Diehard that there seems to be no appetite from the SFA over encouraging Junior clubs to come on board to the LL. We are certainly not snobbish towards the LL and having watched one of our academy teams play Spartans in the Scottish Cup last season I was very impressed (& a bit jealous) with the set up at Ainslie Park. Having also been to a few early season encounters of EK the set up is certainly impressive but it is hard to judge the standard in just 1/2 games. Some clubs are reluctant to change as it would be a gamble. It wasnt a gamble for most of the LL as they are still playing the same teams (mainly) they were playing in the EOSL. Hope we can work together to develop this further but I highly doubt it as both sides seem firmly entrenched in their respective positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankies Alive Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 If the SFA were serious about a pyramid they would set up a West of Scotland senior League but they aren`t so they wont! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calmac25 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 If the SFA were serious about a pyramid they would set up a West of Scotland senior League but they aren`t so they wont! If the juniors were serious about wanting a west of Scotland league as a feeder to the Lowland league surely they would ask for one? The obvious answer is taking over/ merging with the south of Scotland. The majority of teams there would be happy remaining as district teams and the super league could accommodate a couple of the more ambitious teams to bring the top league up to 14 or 16 teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Let's try to keep it real? There is zero chance of west region junior clubs asking to be a west of scotland senior league or of the SoS league becoming junior. The more plausible way that a WoS league could emerge would be for one of the leading amateur leagues to assume the role by affiliating directly to the SFA. Glasgow Uni being licensed might be the way to try to justify it, but even that is probably an extreme long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Surely a club the size of Clydebank or Talbot would spend one season in the SoS before they were promoted should they have their license? I get the arguments about not wanting to play academies or new clubs as opposed to rivals with reasonable supports but it wouldn't be that way forever. Maybe in five years time if the systems were to merge the Lowland League could look something like Talbot, Cumnock, Kilbirnie, Pollok, Clydebank, Linlithgow, Bo'ness, Irvine Meadow, Petershill, Spartans, Edinburgh City, Queens Park, Clyde, East Stirlingshire, Albion Rovers and Stirling Albion. Surely that's more appealing than thinking so short term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 There are issues. It's hard to say how many West clubs are ready to secure a licence. There are a few who are capable of getting there pretty quickly in my view. But ... as I intimated earlier, I just don't see those top end West teams fitting in below the Lowland League. Not that they'd have an option as things stand but I can't see them accepting it. In which case everyone just needs to career on in their current, separate directions. At least there is a dialogue about it in the south. The HFL looks like it has every intention of having a pyramid at the top end and anyone at the bottom end can f**k right off because they're not opening it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 At least there is a dialogue about it in the south. The HFL looks like it has every intention of having a pyramid at the top end and anyone at the bottom end can f**k right off because they're not opening it up. Where does that leave Banks O'Dee? Should the SFA therefore sanction the HL for blocking BoD's "committment" to the pyramid? or does that not matter since they got their licence before that ropey clause was introduced? Do we face the prospect of Linlithgow being allowed to continue in the Juniors for the foreseeable future but enjoy Scottish Cup participation, but on the other hand Haddington have to potentially jump ship into the EoS because they signed the slip of paper? The whole things a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Where does that leave Banks O'Dee? Should the SFA therefore sanction the HL for blocking BoD's "committment" to the pyramid? or does that not matter since they got their licence before that ropey clause was introduced? Do we face the prospect of Linlithgow being allowed to continue in the Juniors for the foreseeable future but enjoy Scottish Cup participation, but on the other hand Haddington have to potentially jump ship into the EoS because they signed the slip of paper? The whole things a mess. The mischievous side of me would like to see us (assuming a license is granted of course) carry on our SJFA membership and enter the Junior Cup from the EoS/LL And getting a bye into the second round to boot. That would make the tongues wag Unless there's a rule somewhere... 2. The competition for the Cup shall be annual, and shall be open to all clubs of the Association, subject to the approval of the Committee. All matches shall be played under the laws of the Association game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Am a correct in saying Spartans eos can't get promoted even if they win league in future They could not be promoted anyway just now as Spartans are in LL. My understanding is reserves are not allowed above EOSL/SOSL and that's what the extract from the SOSL website I quoted says. Personally I'd be wary of letting reserves out of the bottom rung, as it'd force down proper clubs... I never had an issue with Berwick Rangers EOS in the EOSL First Division as it wasn't taking a place from someone else, games were at Shielfield Park and our players were all part-timers like the opposition. However it's different in higher levels, playing out of training centres, using full-timers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The mischievous side of me would like to see us (assuming a license is granted of course) carry on our SJFA membership and enter the Junior Cup from the EoS/LL And getting a bye into the second round to boot. That would make the tongues wag Unless there's a rule somewhere... LOL, me thinks the SJFA Blazerati would have you oot on yer erse quicker than you could blink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calmac25 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 LOL, me thinks the SJFA Blazerati would have you oot on yer erse quicker than you could blink!was there not some talk a while back of linlithgow doing a Spartans and hedgin their bets in both gradesI think haddington ath have an amateur team too so might be able to get them to step up. I dont know if reinstatement would get in the way of players turning out in the junior and scottish cups though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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