Scotland's Campaign - Cold Light of Day

[Bambino7]

In the cold light of day Kyle Lafferty and Josh McGengis are going to the Euros and we aren't. How fucking criminal is that!!

[Scary Bear]

and no defeats. As I already said, it wasn't the results against Ireland and Poland that put us out. It was the ones against Germany and Georgia.

Surely it's a combination of all the results? We were 2-1 up twice against Poland and couldn't see the games out. Ireland were there for the taking in Dublin but we couldn't manage it.

[Skyline Drifter]

Georgia away was the one that fucked us.

We went into the group as 4th seeds thinking we could match Ireland and Poland. We got the better of Ireland and matched Poland. That should have seen us 3rd at least.

Struggled at home to Georgia but got the win. Lost away and we are now out on our arses and finishing 4th.

Even ignoring Poland and Ireland taking points off the Germans, the fact we couldn't take full points off the sides ranked below us is the bit that has done the most damage.

If we'd beaten Georgia away we'd finish on 18 points. That wouldn't get us through and would only make the playoffs if Ireland lose in Poland at the weekend. It's not as simple as all put down to Georgia though it's clearly a major factor.

[Skyline Drifter]

Surely it's a combination of all the results? We were 2-1 up twice against Poland and couldn't see the games out. Ireland were there for the taking in Dublin but we couldn't manage it.

Yes, of course it is. But at the start of the campaign the results we've achieved against the Poles and Irish, with maybe slight disappointment at not beating the Poles at home, would have been considered thoroughly acceptable. So actually would two narrow defeats to Germany to be fair. The only unacceptable result was the one in Georgia. We couldn't have foreseen at the time the Poles and the Irish both beating Germany.

[Scary Bear]

Georgia away was the one that fucked us.

We went into the group as 4th seeds thinking we could match Ireland and Poland. We got the better of Ireland and matched Poland. That should have seen us 3rd at least.

Struggled at home to Georgia but got the win. Lost away and we are now out on our arses and finishing 4th.

Even ignoring Poland and Ireland taking points off the Germans, the fact we couldn't take full points off the sides ranked below us is the bit that has done the most damage.

With the best will in the world, Georgia was only 3 points and we are currently 6 points off the pace.

Getting anything more than a lucky draw at home to Germany was always going to be hard.

That leaves us needing more wins than draws against Ireland and Poland.

[Blue Thunder]

We are well short of the class required to qualify for major tournaments. This is hard to swallow but a fact never the less.

The bad news is we don't seem to have players coming through that are any better than our current squad.

[Nowhereman]

and no defeats. As I already said, it wasn't the results against Ireland and Poland that put us out. It was the ones against Germany and Georgia.

Not sure I agree with that. Beating the teams of a similar calibre is more important because it also deprives them of points. A win in Dublin ( which was a distinct possibility ) and a win last night would have seen us on 16 points. Poland and Ireland would both be on 17. So a win in Gibraltar could have seen us in second place but third as a minimum.

[Scary Bear]

Yes, of course it is. But at the start of the campaign the results we've achieved against the Poles and Irish, with maybe slight disappointment at not beating the Poles at home, would have been considered thoroughly acceptable. So actually would two narrow defeats to Germany to be fair. The only unacceptable result was the one in Georgia. We couldn't have foreseen at the time the Poles and the Irish both beating Germany.

I think Scotland try and foresee results too often. The national team often seem happy with a point, when a braver team would have pushed for all 3 points.

[MarkoRaj]

Not sure I agree with that. Beating the teams of a similar calibre is more important because it also deprives them of points.

Nonsense argument considering Poland and Ireland took 2 and 1 points off us respectively and still fucked us out before the last game.

[Scary Bear]

Nonsense argument considering Poland and Ireland took 2 and 1 points off us respectively and still fucked us out before the last game.

If we had beaten them, we'd have had more points and they'd have had less points. Then the Georgia result wouldn't matter so much.

[Nowhereman]

Nonsense argument considering Poland and Ireland took 2 and 1 points off us respectively and still fucked us out before the last game.

Fair enough. Beating the World champions is what we should be aiming for

[forameus]

With the best will in the world, Georgia was only 3 points and we are currently 6 points off the pace.

Getting anything more than a lucky draw at home to Germany was always going to be hard.

That leaves us needing more wins than draws against Ireland and Poland.

Yes, but we're 6 points off the pace and we're the only team yet to play Gibraltar. We would have beaten them, and the extra 3 points against Georgia would have meant that we would be level. If Poland beat Ireland in Warsaw, we'd take their place, and if Ireland won, it'd be a goal different battle between us and Poland (which we'd probably lose tbh).

I know that technically, it's down to the collection of results, but it's not like it's a 38 game league season. It's ten games. Meaning that single games do change campaigns.

It's simple, win the Georgia game and we'd still be in with a decent enough chance thanks to our other results. We lost, and we're out. It's extremely hard to look past the Georgia game for the one that fucked us over.

EDIT: In fact, I'm fairly confident we'll finish the group three points behind Ireland, just to really rub it in.

[RedRob72]

Good International Football Managers don't continually bemoan their luck or rely on it.

Strachan is not a good International Football Manager .

[Scary Bear]

Yes, but we're 6 points off the pace and we're the only team yet to play Gibraltar. We would have beaten them, and the extra 3 points against Georgia would have meant that we would be level. If Poland beat Ireland in Warsaw, we'd take their place, and if Ireland won, it'd be a goal different battle between us and Poland (which we'd probably lose tbh).

I know that technically, it's down to the collection of results, but it's not like it's a 38 game league season. It's ten games. Meaning that single games do change campaigns.

It's simple, win the Georgia game and we'd still be in with a decent enough chance thanks to our other results. We lost, and we're out. It's extremely hard to look past the Georgia game for the one that fucked us over.

EDIT: In fact, I'm fairly confident we'll finish the group three points behind Ireland, just to really rub it in.

I get what you're saying, but that was just for a play-off spot, where no doubt further heartbreak would have awaited. There were two automatic spots up for grabs and that's what we should have been trying for. Incidentally if Ireland v Poland was a draw, we'd be out, even with the 3 points from Georgia.

Everyone makes out this group was solid, but Germany were the only class side and they had some ropey results. We should have beaten Poland twice but threw it away on both occasions.

[Skyline Drifter]

I get what you're saying, but that was just for a play-off spot, where no doubt further heartbreak would have awaited. There were two automatic spots up for grabs and that's what we should have been trying for. Incidentally if Ireland v Poland was a draw, we'd be out, even with the 3 points from Georgia.

Everyone makes out this group was solid, but Germany were the only class side and they had some ropey results. We should have beaten Poland twice but threw it away on both occasions.

It's not as difficult a group as Strachan has continually tried to portray it but it's also not as easy as most. I wouldn't have swapped our group for the Latvia one in a month of Sundays but I'd merrily have swapped with Wales or with Finland to name but two.

[ShawfieldAggro]

Claiming the draw was against us is absolute shite. Had we not gained six points from conceivably our main rivals (and may yet still end up topping the 'mini group' between us Poland and Southern Oirland) i could see legitimacy in those wailings. Treating two games against the World champions like glorified friendlies (no pressure, nothing to lose etc....pish) shouldn't be allowed to cover up crap preparation and execution. Ireland hit Germany with a gameplan when the result may have eliminated them. Congratulations to them on not only keeping them out but also hitting them twice late on.....perhaps the like of Robbie Keane, Seamus Coleman and Shane Long aren't as interested in hard-luck loser headlines above their heads in the next days papers as our bunch of amateurs.

[mjw]

Good International Football Managers don't continually bemoan their luck or rely on it.

Strachan is not a good International Football Manager .

Or forget to mention Ireland hitting the bar in the last minute at parkhead when claiming we had no luck.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Claiming the draw was against us is absolute shite. Had we not gained six points from conceivably our main rivals (and may yet still end up topping the 'mini group' between us Poland and Southern Oirland) i could see legitimacy in those wailings. Treating two games against the World champions like glorified friendlies (no pressure, nothing to lose etc....pish) shouldn't be allowed to cover up crap preparation and execution. Ireland hit Germany with a gameplan when the result may have eliminated them. Congratulations to them on not only keeping them out but also hitting them twice late on.....perhaps the like of Robbie Keane, Seamus Coleman and Shane Long aren't as interested in hard-luck loser headlines above their heads in the next days papers as our bunch of amateurs.

Have to agree with this.

Fed up of us giving teams too much respect. It's gone on for far too long.

That's not down to players but a succession of managers downplaying expectations.

If you don't think you can win you won't win. Believe you can win and anything can happen.

[CowdenConvert]

Or forget to mention Ireland hitting the bar in the last minute at parkhead when claiming we had no luck.

How is them not hitting the target lucky for us? If they'd hit the target we wouldn't have won. They didn't so we did. Lack of execution on their part rather than luck on ours.

[gastropod]

Was lucky enough to go to Euro92 , Euro 96 and France 98..I just wish we could qualify for a tournament again , give some of the younger players and fans the experience of a real football high...it does,nt happen often but thats like with most of our club sides ,season in , season out ..Before you know it , a third of your f@ckin life has gone and its nothing but some kind of "glorius failure" ( usually a new way every time). Supporting Scotland is "torture" and thats not going to change...We can argue with each other about formations/ managers/ anglo scots/ bigger leagues etc but the simple fact is we do not have enough players making the grade at the top clubs / all over europe , not just England..Is that Scottish footballs fault that a constant stream of promising young players , head south , then vanish or find themselves in the lower leagues.? The only constant is Scotland is a rollercoaster >>at least some of us care..