Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Maybe strictly not a junior football theme but will give it a blast anyway. Been watching lots of the rugby World Cup and the Refs in rugby are like the king and they seem to get along great with the players and explain things really well and talk to both captains only which works really well and they have a good mutual relationship with players. Onto football now and the ref appears to be the enemy here and there is very little mutual respect in comparison to rugby. I think it would be great if it were only the captain from each team who could approach the referee and ask him to explain things, at present you can see several guys in each time right in the refs face and intimidating him. Should football go down the rugby path in terms of how games are refereed and try and build up a mutual respect like we see in rugby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of the juniors Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Pc Cabe will agree to changing our name before mutual respect happens in football mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beenzon-Toste Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Game would take 3 hours to play. It would be stopped every 30 seconds for the ref to explain the rules as half the players don't know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catakoom Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Not sure that would work to be honest however all football should take the rugby path regarding treating players with injuries without stopping the game and it would put a stop to deliberate time wasting and downright cheating and the oscar performances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud4 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The old saying of rugby is a thugs game played by gentleman and football is gentlemans game played by thugs! It's refreshing to see rugby players just accept a decsison wether they think it's wrong or not. Don't think it would ever happen in football though it's too far gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 The old saying of rugby is a thugs game played by gentleman and football is gentlemans game played by thugs! It's refreshing to see rugby players just accept a decsison wether they think it's wrong or not. Don't think it would ever happen in football though it's too far gone now. Good post and agreed . I can verbally abuse refs like everyone but being on the committee you got to speak to refs after games over a cup of tea and on the whole they're decent guys and quite open to talk to. Just that they can't apply common sense much these days and can't have a joke as they're being watched. Them huge athletes who play rugby stand like naughty schoolboys to the refs attention and the ref is king . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud4 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Good post and agreed . I can verbally abuse refs like everyone but being on the committee you got to speak to refs after games over a cup of tea and on the whole they're decent guys and quite open to talk to. Just that they can't apply common sense much these days and can't have a joke as they're being watched. Them huge athletes who play rugby stand like naughty schoolboys to the refs attention and the ref is king . The ref is king in rugby no doubt about it! All decisions explained and they get on with it. I appreciate football is a totally different game but surely the concept of how the ref is treated must apply to football. It's a good argument to be fair. If the young lads are getting told not to speak to players then what chance to do you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It's the players and coaches at fault mostly. Why on earth people think that shouting and arguing with a referee is going to change their mind mystifies me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLESGABOY Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The ref is king in rugby no doubt about it! All decisions explained and they get on with it. I appreciate football is a totally different game but surely the concept of how the ref is treated must apply to football. It's a good argument to be fair. If the young lads are getting told not to speak to players then what chance to do you have. You need to turn this on it`s head before referees should be obliged to speak to players. The players should be told not to speak to the referees first and foremost. This needs addressed at grass roots level and coached into players from an early age and it needs the support of parents of young players as well. Unfortunately there are far and away too many parents/coaches on side-lines up and down the country who think that the referee is fair game which in turn sets the tone for the young players and so the abuse begins. The simple principal of the rule change which would see the penalised team moved 10 yards closer to their own goal for dissent, would present clubs with the real problem of policing/coaching their own players and the pain in the short term would eventually see a dramatic reduction in the amount of abuse/dissent being showered upon the referees.In theory this should lead to situation whereby the referees will feel confident enough to explain decisions (wether they are right or wrong is another question) without the fear of mass intimidation. The need to improve discipline extends beyond the field of play to the backroom staff and side-lines as well. Some clubs have major issues with behaviour of officials/players on the side lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Rugby players know that if they give the ref any verbal they run the risk of a penalty being shifted 10 metres further up and could also get 10 minutes in the sin bin. The refs also have the full backing of the rugby authorities, something lacking in football tbh. Football refs have it in their power to stop all the abuse they get, if they would just have the bottle to show cards to everyone that they should be, dissent would be cut out, maybe not overnight, but when players start to get sent off and suspended for not being able to keep their trap shut then their managers woud soon be on them to cut it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 You need to turn this on it`s head before referees should be obliged to speak to players. The players should be told not to speak to the referees first and foremost. This needs addressed at grass roots level and coached into players from an early age and it needs the support of parents of young players as well. Unfortunately there are far and away too many parents/coaches on side-lines up and down the country who think that the referee is fair game which in turn sets the tone for the young players and so the abuse begins. The simple principal of the rule change which would see the penalised team moved 10 yards closer to their own goal for dissent, would present clubs with the real problem of policing/coaching their own players and the pain in the short term would eventually see a dramatic reduction in the amount of abuse/dissent being showered upon the referees.In theory this should lead to situation whereby the referees will feel confident enough to explain decisions (wether they are right or wrong is another question) without the fear of mass intimidation. The need to improve discipline extends beyond the field of play to the backroom staff and side-lines as well. Some clubs have major issues with behaviour of officials/players on the side lines. Agree with a lot of that, what doesn't help is that kids watch players in the EPL like Rooney screaming abuse in the refs face and getting away with it, and they think that is then acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 You need to turn this on it`s head before referees should be obliged to speak to players. The players should be told not to speak to the referees first and foremost. This needs addressed at grass roots level and coached into players from an early age and it needs the support of parents of young players as well. Unfortunately there are far and away too many parents/coaches on side-lines up and down the country who think that the referee is fair game which in turn sets the tone for the young players and so the abuse begins. The simple principal of the rule change which would see the penalised team moved 10 yards closer to their own goal for dissent, would present clubs with the real problem of policing/coaching their own players and the pain in the short term would eventually see a dramatic reduction in the amount of abuse/dissent being showered upon the referees.In theory this should lead to situation whereby the referees will feel confident enough to explain decisions (wether they are right or wrong is another question) without the fear of mass intimidation. The need to improve discipline extends beyond the field of play to the backroom staff and side-lines as well. Some clubs have major issues with behaviour of officials/players on the side lines. Good post . Don't you think the big problem as well could be that every clubs management could be using the referee as a target and as a form of deflection from slating their own players for their mistakes? Gone are the old hairdryer days of laying into players and it's much easier to constantly niggle refs than verbally abusing your own players who could rebel against you and you could lose the dressing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connolly81 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Said it for long enough the football refs are too arrogant and speak to boys like shit but if a player speaks to the ref in same manner they are booked. Best refs I've dealt with over the years and even this season are the ones who interact and give explanations to why the made decisions which is all we ask. Everyone makes mistakes thats just life but be honest about it and don't be arrogant telling guys to go away or shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOA Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Refs are the same,the players in football and rugby have different outlooks with regard to discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLESGABOY Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Good post . Don't you think the big problem as well could be that every clubs management could be using the referee as a target and as a form of deflection from slating their own players for their mistakes? Gone are the old hairdryer days of laying into players and it's much easier to constantly niggle refs than verbally abusing your own players who could rebel against you and you could lose the dressing room. Definitely easier for managers to blame the ref than look at their own players or heaven forbid look at themselves. I`ve been in dressing rooms where the managers team talk included a section telling us that the ref was " a fucking clown" "useless f**k" etc,etc,etc so it`s easy to use the referee/officials as the fall back position if things go wrong for them. When the referees show even the slightest hint of having a set of balls and answering back then you have clubs/players up in arms with faux outrage and demanding that the officials be held to a standard of behaviour/respect that the players/officials don`t even aspire to never mind reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Rugby is definitely the better for the attitude and respect shown to officials. I wonder if the game is easier to manage though which in turn leads to fewer disputes. It's nowhere near as fast as football, there are fewer tricks on the eye. I think it's inevitable that more wrong calls will be made in football and these will be questioned by frustrated participants and spectators. That said, cheating is now an integral part of football - every single team will do what it can to drive out an advantage. It's part of the culture - even stupid things like moving the ball 3 feet further forward from the point where the ref asks a free kick to be taken from despite the fact that the next step is to punt the ball 59 yards forward instead of 60. Some rules need to be adopted now - they'd cut out a lot of the shite. A 10 minute sin bin for a yellow card (as well as points) punishes a team seeking an unfair advantage there and then which is good because there is logic in the opposing team benefitting from the stupidity instead of a random opponent further down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mantis Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Good post and agreed . I can verbally abuse refs like everyone but being on the committee you got to speak to refs after games over a cup of tea and on the whole they're decent guys and quite open to talk to. Same here, I used to go in and pay them and they were busy going over the bookings and substitutions with the linos, what offence code and what minute etc. Apart from the occasional hitler you could tell most of them just did it for the love of the game. You asked them what a player had done (often the player says he got booked for feck all) and you got the full details, they usually had tried everything including a quiet word but some players just could never keep the mooth shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Having refereed rugby (at youth level) after I finished playing , I can understand the comments made regarding referees. But it is a 2 way street. As JC rightly points out there are many refs who are arrogant in the way they talk to individuals. When I was doing my referee qualification we were told that we shouldn't look at ourselves as just the referee but also as a coach and that the way we worked with both sides would help them develop and keep the game flowing. Fast forward to the recent Arthurlie and Hurlford game. Right on half time Hurlford scored their second goal. The assistant raises his flag and the referee goes and speaks to him. It was thought that the flag was up for offside. Referee gives the goal. Going into the changing rooms I approach the officials to ask why the goal stood and why the assistant flagged only to be told he didn't flag! I said but everyone in the ground saw the flag go up to which I was told he raised his flag to ask a question. Why not just tell the truth. The assistant did flag for offside (was told by our players that the assistant confirmed this) so why does the referee feel the need to lie? This is why players supporters etc get annoyed at referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerrdavidson95 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Its all a matter of respect. Rugby players see the referee as an arbiter of the game who also looks after the players' safety, for example a scrum collapsing or tip tackle, but footballers see the referee as an inconvenience or a tool to get one over on the opposition by encouraging a referee to caution or send off a player, the fact a referee is there to also protect football players is an oversight. Its all bred from an early age, of course. Having played rugby at school up until I was 17 it was coached into us to always respect the referee and his decision is final. On the flip side, I was refereeing an U9 game yesterday and I was getting abuse from the sideline for giving fouls, an hour later I went to watch my team playing in a Saturday morning league and on the park opposite was an U13 match, and of course the coaches and parents are absolutely hounding the referee. Shocking stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 Its all a matter of respect. Rugby players see the referee as an arbiter of the game who also looks after the players' safety, for example a scrum collapsing or tip tackle, but footballers see the referee as an inconvenience or a tool to get one over on the opposition by encouraging a referee to caution or send off a player, the fact a referee is there to also protect football players is an oversight. Its all bred from an early age, of course. Having played rugby at school up until I was 17 it was coached into us to always respect the referee and his decision is final. On the flip side, I was refereeing an U9 game yesterday and I was getting abuse from the sideline for giving fouls, an hour later I went to watch my team playing in a Saturday morning league and on the park opposite was an U13 match, and of course the coaches and parents are absolutely hounding the referee. Shocking stuff. Good post and I've even witnessed young lads parents at the sidelines verbally bashing their own boys coach and I've known a few guys who stopped coaching because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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