David Cameron - No need for another referendum

[Fide]

Dishface getting us telt, with added cringe whinge from Ian Murray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33668976

There is "no need" for another Scottish independence referendum, which would have to be "legal, fair and properly constituted", David Cameron has said.

He also said one would not take place while he is prime minister.

Former SNP leader Alex Salmond has said he believes a second vote is "inevitable" and that the "timing" is up to First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.

Ms Sturgeon said the SNP had not yet decided if a referendum will feature in its 2016 Holyrood election manifesto.

On his tour of South East Asia, Mr Cameron said there would not be another vote in this Parliament.

Asked if a new referendum would have legitimacy, he replied: "A referendum would have to be legal, fair and properly constituted. And that's what we had and it was decisive and I don't see the need for another one."

'Ultimate decision'

On whether the referendum will feature in her party's manifesto, Ms Sturgeon said it would be her "ultimate decision", with party backing, but it would be made based on the country's "best interests".

Speaking on a visit to China, she said: "There can't be a referendum, and there certainly can't be independence for Scotland, unless a majority of people in Scotland clearly want that.

"It will be my ultimate decision, in line with the democratic decision-making processes of the SNP, to determine whether or not there is a commitment to a second referendum in the SNP manifesto for the Scottish election.

"And in due course we will take that decision and take that decision based on what we consider to be in the best interests of the country."

The first minister said she believed "one day" there would be another independence referendum, but that it required a change in circumstances from last year's vote.

She added: "But whether it's the next Scottish election or a subsequent Scottish election - it's the decision of the SNP whether or not to include it in a manifesto, but it is the decision of the Scottish people whether to vote for that manifesto."

David Mundell, the Scottish secretary in the UK government, earlier said that there were no contingency plans for a further referendum after next year's Holyrood elections - after being asked about any departmental plans in parliamentary questions by an SNP MP.

Shadow Scottish Secretary Ian Murray said: "Nicola Sturgeon promised people in Scotland that the referendum was a once in a lifetime event, yet today she can't even rule out another vote being in the SNP's manifesto next year."

On Sunday, Alex Salmond said a second referendum was inevitable with the issue "a question of timing", a spokeswoman for Ms Sturgeon said there was "no difference of opinion" between the first minister and Mr Salmond.

Scottish voters rejected independence by 55% to 45% in last September's referendum.

After the SNP won 56 of the 59 seats in Scotland in May's general election, Ms Sturgeon stressed there was "no second Scottish independence referendum on the immediate horizon".

However, with some opinion polls pointing to the possibility of an SNP landslide in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections there has been speculation a second vote could be on the cards.

Margaret Ferrier, the MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, submitted two written questions on the issue to the Scottish secretary.

She asked "what contingency plans his department has prepared for the possibility of a further referendum on Scottish independence being the policy of the Scottish government after the Scottish Parliament election in 2016".

Mr Mundell said he was "disappointed" by the questions in light of previous statements made by both Ms Sturgeon and her predecessor Mr Salmond that the referendum was a "once-in-a-generation" opportunity.

'No favours'

In response, Mr Mundell said: "My department has not prepared contingency plans for the possibility of a further referendum being the policy of the Scottish government after the Scottish Parliament election in 2016."

Speaking on the BBC's Good Morning Scotland radio programme, the Tory MP said he did not accept that circumstances had changed since the referendum.

He accused the SNP of trying to find "an excuse" to have another vote.

He said: "I think Nicola Sturgeon needs to be much clearer. Is it the SNP policy to have a second referendum or not?

"It is clear from what Alex Salmond is saying that this isn't about the Smith Commission. For Alex Salmond the Smith Commission isn't good enough, it is independence or nothing and that's what is underlying the push for the second referendum."

The Smith Commission was set up after the independence referendum last year to consider further powers for the Scottish Parliament.

The Scotland Bill, currently making its way through parliament at Westminster, is taking forward its recommendations.

Shadow Scottish Secretary Mr Murray said: "People will rightly be worried that Nicola Sturgeon isn't keeping the promise she made to Scots before the referendum.

"We've gone from the people will decide, to the SNP will decide, to Nicola Sturgeon will decide.

"There are so many big issues in Scotland that need urgent attention - from the mess in our police service to the GP crisis.

"The full focus of everybody in Scottish politics should be on sorting out the problems in our public services. We can't put the country on pause for another two years again."

Scottish Conservative MSP Murdo Fraser said: "It is barely 10 months since we had the referendum vote. It was a comprehensive vote and that should have settled the issue.

"We were assured that last September's vote was "once in a generation vote". In fact, Nicola Sturgeon went further when she said it was a "once in a lifetime vote". Now all we hear from the SNP is about how soon they can justify a re-run.

"This just shows contempt for the clearly expressed view of the Scottish people. The SNP need to stop obsessing about independence , and start addressing the real problems in Scotland which have been building up on their watch."

[Ira Gaines]

Did he actually say anything of note there. He said there'd need to be a change of circumstances. We know that. It's just a lot of hot wind and bluster that doesn't mean much of anything.

What's he distracting us from this time?

[Fide]

Did he actually say anything of note there. He said there'd need to be a change of circumstances. We know that. It's just a lot of hot wind and bluster that doesn't mean much of anything.

What's he distracting us from this time?

Oh nothing, other than a corrupt Houses of Parliament, an all out assault on the poor and the only show in town threatening his wafer thin majority.

[jmothecat]

Seems like a rehashing of what's already been said. Salmond believes it's inevitable, Cameron has stated it won't happen whilst he is PM. Is this not the exact story that's been doing the rounds since November but with new quotes which say basically the same thing?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Seems like a rehashing of what's already been said. Salmond believes it's inevitable, Cameron has stated it won't happen whilst he is PM. Is this not the exact story that's been doing the rounds since November but with new quotes which say basically the same thing?

Correct.

Nothing new here.

Cameron says no referendum.

Salmond says referendum.

Nippy saying maybe.

[mizfit]

I'd say the only difference being Sturgeon saying there is maybe room for a referendum in the manifesto for Hollyrood. Before the general election she was ruling it out.

I'd say the SNP are more confident of a referendum victory the second time around, but I'd wait until the Tories are voted into parliament a 3rd time before discussing it.

[Double Jack D]

Dishface getting us telt, with added cringe whinge from Ian Murray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33668976

There is "no need" for another Scottish independence referendum, which would have to be "legal, fair and properly constituted", David Cameron has said.

He also said one would not take place while he is prime minister.

Former SNP leader Alex Salmond has said he believes a second vote is "inevitable" and that the "timing" is up to First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.

Ms Sturgeon said the SNP had not yet decided if a referendum will feature in its 2016 Holyrood election manifesto.

On his tour of South East Asia, Mr Cameron said there would not be another vote in this Parliament.

Asked if a new referendum would have legitimacy, he replied: "A referendum would have to be legal, fair and properly constituted. And that's what we had and it was decisive and I don't see the need for another one."

'Ultimate decision'

On whether the referendum will feature in her party's manifesto, Ms Sturgeon said it would be her "ultimate decision", with party backing, but it would be made based on the country's "best interests".

Speaking on a visit to China, she said: "There can't be a referendum, and there certainly can't be independence for Scotland, unless a majority of people in Scotland clearly want that.

"It will be my ultimate decision, in line with the democratic decision-making processes of the SNP, to determine whether or not there is a commitment to a second referendum in the SNP manifesto for the Scottish election.

"And in due course we will take that decision and take that decision based on what we consider to be in the best interests of the country."

The first minister said she believed "one day" there would be another independence referendum, but that it required a change in circumstances from last year's vote.

She added: "But whether it's the next Scottish election or a subsequent Scottish election - it's the decision of the SNP whether or not to include it in a manifesto, but it is the decision of the Scottish people whether to vote for that manifesto."

David Mundell, the Scottish secretary in the UK government, earlier said that there were no contingency plans for a further referendum after next year's Holyrood elections - after being asked about any departmental plans in parliamentary questions by an SNP MP.

Shadow Scottish Secretary Ian Murray said: "Nicola Sturgeon promised people in Scotland that the referendum was a once in a lifetime event, yet today she can't even rule out another vote being in the SNP's manifesto next year."

On Sunday, Alex Salmond said a second referendum was inevitable with the issue "a question of timing", a spokeswoman for Ms Sturgeon said there was "no difference of opinion" between the first minister and Mr Salmond.

Scottish voters rejected independence by 55% to 45% in last September's referendum.

After the SNP won 56 of the 59 seats in Scotland in May's general election, Ms Sturgeon stressed there was "no second Scottish independence referendum on the immediate horizon".

However, with some opinion polls pointing to the possibility of an SNP landslide in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections there has been speculation a second vote could be on the cards.

Margaret Ferrier, the MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, submitted two written questions on the issue to the Scottish secretary.

She asked "what contingency plans his department has prepared for the possibility of a further referendum on Scottish independence being the policy of the Scottish government after the Scottish Parliament election in 2016".

Mr Mundell said he was "disappointed" by the questions in light of previous statements made by both Ms Sturgeon and her predecessor Mr Salmond that the referendum was a "once-in-a-generation" opportunity.

'No favours'

In response, Mr Mundell said: "My department has not prepared contingency plans for the possibility of a further referendum being the policy of the Scottish government after the Scottish Parliament election in 2016."

Speaking on the BBC's Good Morning Scotland radio programme, the Tory MP said he did not accept that circumstances had changed since the referendum.

He accused the SNP of trying to find "an excuse" to have another vote.

He said: "I think Nicola Sturgeon needs to be much clearer. Is it the SNP policy to have a second referendum or not?

"It is clear from what Alex Salmond is saying that this isn't about the Smith Commission. For Alex Salmond the Smith Commission isn't good enough, it is independence or nothing and that's what is underlying the push for the second referendum."

The Smith Commission was set up after the independence referendum last year to consider further powers for the Scottish Parliament.

The Scotland Bill, currently making its way through parliament at Westminster, is taking forward its recommendations.

Shadow Scottish Secretary Mr Murray said: "People will rightly be worried that Nicola Sturgeon isn't keeping the promise she made to Scots before the referendum.

"We've gone from the people will decide, to the SNP will decide, to Nicola Sturgeon will decide.

"There are so many big issues in Scotland that need urgent attention - from the mess in our police service to the GP crisis.

"The full focus of everybody in Scottish politics should be on sorting out the problems in our public services. We can't put the country on pause for another two years again."

Scottish Conservative MSP Murdo Fraser said: "It is barely 10 months since we had the referendum vote. It was a comprehensive vote and that should have settled the issue.

"We were assured that last September's vote was "once in a generation vote". In fact, Nicola Sturgeon went further when she said it was a "once in a lifetime vote". Now all we hear from the SNP is about how soon they can justify a re-run.

"This just shows contempt for the clearly expressed view of the Scottish people. The SNP need to stop obsessing about independence , and start addressing the real problems in Scotland which have been building up on their watch."

Murdo Fraser is right, it should've settled the issue.

He should maybe ask himself and his party why it didn't.

[Mark Connolly]

Murdo Fraser is right, it should've settled the issue.

He should maybe ask himself and his party why it didn't.

It's genuinely amazing that after the last few years of SNP (and Scotland) bashing has resulted in what was a pretty close result in the referendum, and an absolute landslide in the GE, that the media and the major parties are continuing along the same line of attack.

The "we had a vote and that's that" approach is also starting to get on my wick - it makes it pretty clear to me that the unionists reckon they are f*cked if there is another.

[kevthedee]

It's genuinely amazing that after the last few years of SNP (and Scotland) bashing has resulted in what was a pretty close result in the referendum, and an absolute landslide in the GE, that the media and the major parties are continuing along the same line of attack.

The "we had a vote and that's that" approach is also starting to get on my wick - it makes it pretty clear to me that the unionists reckon they are f*cked if there is another.

Nothing to do with unionists worried about getting beat in another vote,maybe its the fact we had a vote only 9mths ago with a clear majority saying no.

[YER SISTERS YER MAW]

Good to see that wee Eck can still turn Cameron into a seething mess so easily.

[TapothehullDee]

It was settled several months ago, no need for another one at all.

[doulikefish]

Why does David bite so easily? he is like putty in Salmond`s hand.

Good to see that wee Eck can still turn Cameron into a seething mess so easily.

He has even got kevthedee to reply without a link to the scotsman

[Karpaty]

Dishface getting us telt, with added cringe whinge from Ian Murray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33668976

There is "no need" for another Scottish independence referendum, which would have to be "legal, fair and properly constituted", David Cameron has said.

He also said one would not take place while he is prime minister.

Former SNP leader Alex Salmond has said he believes a second vote is "inevitable" and that the "timing" is up to First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.

Ms Sturgeon said the SNP had not yet decided if a referendum will feature in its 2016 Holyrood election manifesto.

On his tour of South East Asia, Mr Cameron said there would not be another vote in this Parliament.

Asked if a new referendum would have legitimacy, he replied: "A referendum would have to be legal, fair and properly constituted. And that's what we had and it was decisive and I don't see the need for another one."

'Ultimate decision'

On whether the referendum will feature in her party's manifesto, Ms Sturgeon said it would be her "ultimate decision", with party backing, but it would be made based on the country's "best interests".

Speaking on a visit to China, she said: "There can't be a referendum, and there certainly can't be independence for Scotland, unless a majority of people in Scotland clearly want that.

"It will be my ultimate decision, in line with the democratic decision-making processes of the SNP, to determine whether or not there is a commitment to a second referendum in the SNP manifesto for the Scottish election.

"And in due course we will take that decision and take that decision based on what we consider to be in the best interests of the country."

The first minister said she believed "one day" there would be another independence referendum, but that it required a change in circumstances from last year's vote.

She added: "But whether it's the next Scottish election or a subsequent Scottish election - it's the decision of the SNP whether or not to include it in a manifesto, but it is the decision of the Scottish people whether to vote for that manifesto."

David Mundell, the Scottish secretary in the UK government, earlier said that there were no contingency plans for a further referendum after next year's Holyrood elections - after being asked about any departmental plans in parliamentary questions by an SNP MP.

Shadow Scottish Secretary Ian Murray said: "Nicola Sturgeon promised people in Scotland that the referendum was a once in a lifetime event, yet today she can't even rule out another vote being in the SNP's manifesto next year."

On Sunday, Alex Salmond said a second referendum was inevitable with the issue "a question of timing", a spokeswoman for Ms Sturgeon said there was "no difference of opinion" between the first minister and Mr Salmond.

Scottish voters rejected independence by 55% to 45% in last September's referendum.

After the SNP won 56 of the 59 seats in Scotland in May's general election, Ms Sturgeon stressed there was "no second Scottish independence referendum on the immediate horizon".

However, with some opinion polls pointing to the possibility of an SNP landslide in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections there has been speculation a second vote could be on the cards.

Margaret Ferrier, the MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, submitted two written questions on the issue to the Scottish secretary.

She asked "what contingency plans his department has prepared for the possibility of a further referendum on Scottish independence being the policy of the Scottish government after the Scottish Parliament election in 2016".

Mr Mundell said he was "disappointed" by the questions in light of previous statements made by both Ms Sturgeon and her predecessor Mr Salmond that the referendum was a "once-in-a-generation" opportunity.

'No favours'

In response, Mr Mundell said: "My department has not prepared contingency plans for the possibility of a further referendum being the policy of the Scottish government after the Scottish Parliament election in 2016."

Speaking on the BBC's Good Morning Scotland radio programme, the Tory MP said he did not accept that circumstances had changed since the referendum.

He accused the SNP of trying to find "an excuse" to have another vote.

He said: "I think Nicola Sturgeon needs to be much clearer. Is it the SNP policy to have a second referendum or not?

"It is clear from what Alex Salmond is saying that this isn't about the Smith Commission. For Alex Salmond the Smith Commission isn't good enough, it is independence or nothing and that's what is underlying the push for the second referendum."

The Smith Commission was set up after the independence referendum last year to consider further powers for the Scottish Parliament.

The Scotland Bill, currently making its way through parliament at Westminster, is taking forward its recommendations.

Shadow Scottish Secretary Mr Murray said: "People will rightly be worried that Nicola Sturgeon isn't keeping the promise she made to Scots before the referendum.

"We've gone from the people will decide, to the SNP will decide, to Nicola Sturgeon will decide.

"There are so many big issues in Scotland that need urgent attention - from the mess in our police service to the GP crisis.

"The full focus of everybody in Scottish politics should be on sorting out the problems in our public services. We can't put the country on pause for another two years again."

Scottish Conservative MSP Murdo Fraser said: "It is barely 10 months since we had the referendum vote. It was a comprehensive vote and that should have settled the issue.

"We were assured that last September's vote was "once in a generation vote". In fact, Nicola Sturgeon went further when she said it was a "once in a lifetime vote". Now all we hear from the SNP is about how soon they can justify a re-run.

"This just shows contempt for the clearly expressed view of the Scottish people. The SNP need to stop obsessing about independence , and start addressing the real problems in Scotland which have been building up on their watch."

No shit mate

[Colkitto]

Cameron has made a tactical error in blundering into the indyref2 debate. Nothing had changed, Sturgeon hasn't said indyref2 will be in the 2016 manifesto.

Cameron saying there won't be another one plays right into the SNP's hands. All he had to say is the FM said she isn't planning another referendum.

Now social media is up in arms over his comments and getting peoples backs up.

You can tell he's made a arse of it because the BBC are ignoring it. Somehow the Prime Minister of the UK saying he won't agree to another independence referendum isn't newsworthy in Scotland

[renton]

Nothing to do with unionists worried about getting beat in another vote,maybe its the fact we had a vote only 9mths ago with a clear majority saying no.

But not an unbridgeable one, hence the danger in a second 'early' referendum is the notion of 'one more push' to get over the line. Failure to do so would bury the movement for a generation, but if that push did succeed? This whole thing is just a game of political chicken, one side stoking the fear of a referendum to dislodge more devolution in the short term - and crucially to keep their newly enlarged base engaged and motivated, the other hoping to goad their opposition into a strategic mistake. Neither side actually wants it, despite Salmond's puckish pronouncements and Cameron's patrician arrogance.

If it is the case that numbers for yes have stabilised at 45% (or slightly better) and will not fall back, then time is on the SNP side, a solid win next year at Holyrood and then going after the inevitable Tory victory in 2020 (sans Cameron) would provide a decent jumping off point for a 2nd referendum: A much smaller gap to overhaul, a still eviscerated Unionist campaigning machine up north, Labour still in retreat down south and a Tory government led by someone who lacks Cameron's obvious charisma, not to mention the probable memories of various broken promises and 'vows' and enough time to have gone back and ironed out the shortcomings of the previous campaign - from an Indy point of view that is probably the ideal scenario.

Obviously there is countless ways that can (and probably) will fail to materialise, a Corbyn leadership and failure to win in 2020 is very good for the pro Indy faction as it would finally bury the idea of a progressive UK alternative, and would inevitably see Labour fire back to the right. Corbyn actually winning a GE would be a disaster for pro Indy. If somehow the SNP do not get a good result in Holyrood next year, then that inevitably holes the whole project beneath the water line.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It's genuinely amazing that after the last few years of SNP (and Scotland) bashing has resulted in what was a pretty close result in the referendum, and an absolute landslide in the GE, that the media and the major parties are continuing along the same line of attack.

The "we had a vote and that's that" approach is also starting to get on my wick - it makes it pretty clear to me that the unionists reckon they are f*cked if there is another.

The ex-FM thought in his own opinion (until Yes lost) that this was a once in a generation, a once in a lifetime vote:

"Harold Wilson famously (said) one vote is enough in a referendum but we're not aiming to win by one vote, we're aiming to achieve a substantial majority if we can."

He added: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland."

Asked if he could pledge not to bring back another referendum if the Yes campaign does not win on Thursday, he said: "That's my view. My view is this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime, opportunity for Scotland."

The current FM has said something similar - she told Jo Coburn on the Daily Politics:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DgIwH9wf2VP4&ved=0CCAQtwIwAWoVChMIq7CctLf9xgIVrhfbCh1DKwii&usg=AFQjCNFvvwbN9iioOhtH61n_CPEYEjUJMA

(4.46 in to clip)

"The SNP have always said, that in our view, that these kinds of referendums, are once in a generation events, this is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

[Antiochas III]

What's a generation?

And no one said it would be a once a lifetime, and if they did who's lifetime do we measure it by?

[Baxter Parp]

I'd say the only difference being Sturgeon saying there is maybe room for a referendum in the manifesto for Hollyrood. Before the general election she was ruling it out.

No she didn't, she said if there's a second referendum it'll be up to the Scottish people. That hasn't changed.

[Fide]

The ex-FM thought in his own opinion (until Yes lost) that this was a once in a generation, a once in a lifetime vote:

"Harold Wilson famously (said) one vote is enough in a referendum but we're not aiming to win by one vote, we're aiming to achieve a substantial majority if we can."

He added: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland."

Asked if he could pledge not to bring back another referendum if the Yes campaign does not win on Thursday, he said: "That's my view. My view is this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime, opportunity for Scotland."

The current FM has said something similar - she told Jo Coburn on the Daily Politics:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DgIwH9wf2VP4&ved=0CCAQtwIwAWoVChMIq7CctLf9xgIVrhfbCh1DKwii&usg=AFQjCNFvvwbN9iioOhtH61n_CPEYEjUJMA

(4.46 in to clip)

"The SNP have always said, that in our view, that these kinds of referendums, are once in a generation events, this is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Video game console generations are around 5 years.

Damsel fly generations are around 24 hours.

So we'll have one when the f**k we like, thanks.

[TapothehullDee]

A NO vote is inevitable if it ever happens again.