Pitch Inspection Guidelines

[Nugent4nil]

Reading a lot on here regards games being called off when many thought that the game could easily have gone ahead so I wondered if anyone was aware of a rule regarding this?

Obviously if teams have to travel a long distance then common sense must prevail regards a call to save expenses etc but locally what's the deal?

As an Arthurlie supporter I know for fact that at least one of the Scottish cup games scheduled at Dunterlie Park v Rob Roy was more than playable at least an hour before kick off, I also know Guys Meadow was playable at 2pm lady Saturday.

Compared to many I'm mere novice in junior terms with only 20ish years following this level but even I can see the changes to be massive!

I remember an Arthurlie v Tayport tie at Barrhead where I felt more confidant of catching a fish than of my team winning the game, I lost two and we lost 6-2!

Are the SFA, the SJFA or whoever bordering on the ridiculous these days regards health and safety and instructing referees to postpone if there is the slightest doubt?

A player from Club A gets injured against Club B lising the club a player and the player an income, can Club A sue on the grounds they felt the pitch unplayable but the referee deemed it fit?

I know that sounds daft but what is going on? Games that could and should be played postponed meaning a fixture pile up when the fixture guy has six teams available to play and manages to get two games from it until the 'wee tap on the shoulder' changed it to three fixtures.

Should there be a rule in place say if the host club feels the game has ever chance that the inspection is called 30 minutes before the opposition are due to leave? Also should clubs in the Scottish be allowed to call their games off without the need for an inspection?

I'm just curious.....

[superbigal]

Let's not go into denial.

I suspect many clubs "work the system"

If they want the game off the ref is brought in to inspect a blatantly frosty hard pitch at a very "early time"

Other clubs request late inspections or even wing it.

The Ref if called to inspect, you can guarantee call the game off if a portion of the park is deemed unplayable. No regard for forecast over next xxx hours.

Re health & safety, I myself would like to know why clubs don't get parks inspected in mid summer when bone hard, bare and bumpy.

I would "just love" the carnage on here if a game was called of in June for that reason.

[blue manalishi]

Reading a lot on here regards games being called off when many thought that the game could easily have gone ahead so I wondered if anyone was aware of a rule regarding this?

Obviously if teams have to travel a long distance then common sense must prevail regards a call to save expenses etc but locally what's the deal?

As an Arthurlie supporter I know for fact that at least one of the Scottish cup games scheduled at Dunterlie Park v Rob Roy was more than playable at least an hour before kick off, I also know Guys Meadow was playable at 2pm lady Saturday.

Compared to many I'm mere novice in junior terms with only 20ish years following this level but even I can see the changes to be massive!

I remember an Arthurlie v Tayport tie at Barrhead where I felt more confidant of catching a fish than of my team winning the game, I lost two and we lost 6-2!

Are the SFA, the SJFA or whoever bordering on the ridiculous these days regards health and safety and instructing referees to postpone if there is the slightest doubt?

A player from Club A gets injured against Club B lising the club a player and the player an income, can Club A sue on the grounds they felt the pitch unplayable but the referee deemed it fit?

I know that sounds daft but what is going on? Games that could and should be played postponed meaning a fixture pile up when the fixture guy has six teams available to play and manages to get two games from it until the 'wee tap on the shoulder' changed it to three fixtures.

Should there be a rule in place say if the host club feels the game has ever chance that the inspection is called 30 minutes before the opposition are due to leave? Also should clubs in the Scottish be allowed to call their games off without the need for an inspection?

I'm just curious.....

Should this not be in the 'summer football' thread?

[Nugent4nil]

I'm against summer football I'm pro common sence!

[blue manalishi]

I'm against summer football I'm pro common sence!

If we had summer football it would eradicate the gripes from your opening post .......................... common sense.

[LTBUF]

Ah! Rain free summers. I assume rules are arounf for the timing of inspections. Other than that there must be some criteria to guide a referee's opinion

[PtB]

Let's not go into denial.

I suspect many clubs "work the system"

If they want the game off the ref is brought in to inspect a blatantly frosty hard pitch at a very "early time"

Other clubs request late inspections or even wing it.

The Ref if called to inspect, you can guarantee call the game off if a portion of the park is deemed unplayable. No regard for forecast over next xxx hours.

Re health & safety, I myself would like to know why clubs don't get parks inspected in mid summer when bone hard, bare and bumpy.

I would "just love" the carnage on here if a game was called of in June for that reason.

The forecast doesn't always happen though!

Parks are inspected as they are, not how they could be.

[santheman]

Depends on how much both teams want the game on.

Larkhall were playing Bellshill on Saturday and at 9.30am the goal areas were frozen.Normally a ref would be called then and would probably have put the game off at that time and Larkhall advise Bellshill of the situation

Bellshill sensibly said that they wouldn't mind waiting till late morning for a decision and lo and behold at 10.30am the pitch passes an inspection and by 2pm was near perfect.

2 other scenarios could have unfolded.

Larkhall have 4 players out so get it inspected at 9.30 game off which suits them but not Bellshill who are desperate for the game to go ahead.

or

Bellshill have 4 players out and insist on a decision by 9.30 game off which suits them but not Larkhall who are desperate for the game to go ahead.

Common sense decision by both teams because they're fairly local but could have worked out completely different if either team had wanted the game off for whatever reason.

Obviously a different scenario when two teams are some distance apart and a decision has to be made early to allow for travelling.

[trotter1962]

Safety is the only criteris when inspecting the pitch. It should be consistent across all areas and speculation about what the pitch could be like at a later time cannot be taken into consideration.

The difference between hard pitches in winter (frozen) and summer (baked) is that the frozen pitches are slippy and in most cases rutted. Dirt and grass dont freeze, water freezes.

Referees will always have the final say in whether a pitch is playable and cannot be "sued" if a player then suffers and injury that is attributable to the pitch conditions

[Nugent4nil]

If we had summer football it would eradicate the gripes from your opening post .......................... common sense.

If we went to summer football wouldn't this be pre season?

[superbigal]

Safety is the only criteris when inspecting the pitch. It should be consistent across all areas and speculation about what the pitch could be like at a later time cannot be taken into consideration.

The difference between hard pitches in winter (frozen) and summer (baked) is that the frozen pitches are slippy and in most cases rutted. Dirt and grass dont freeze, water freezes.

Referees will always have the final say in whether a pitch is playable and cannot be "sued" if a player then suffers and injury that is attributable to the pitch conditions

Feel free to direct me to the factual statistics that obviously has determined you would get more injuries on a frozen pitch against a baked pitch ?

I agree re a "whiteout frosty" pitch.

However a simply hard surface in the winter for me is no different to a baked pitch.

In fact a pitch is rutted in summer if not kept well.

[blue manalishi]

If we went to summer football wouldn't this be pre season?

Yes

[Loughal]

Should this not be in the 'summer football' thread?

In a way you are correct, The controversy surrounding do the 'do we or don't we' have a go at trying a new season that cuts out what we have experienced weather wise since December to end of February, (or further) will continue to be debated. Couple of points.

Draw for R6 of the Scottish will be made on Friday. This means that R4-R5 & R6 are all in the last eight draw'

Sunday Post covered the summer/winter close down quite well last week. Fact is that the seniors are likely to start first week in July with sections drawn on a REGIONAL basis, with seeding for teams involved in Europe, That would mean the Seniors are starting SEVEN weeks before the juniors. 55% of junior fixtures have been lost since November.Leagues are in Chaos, Examples;Kelty P19 Musselburgh P14

Oakley P21 Tayport P14 Irvine Meadow P16 Hurlford P11 and Vale of Clyde P16 Blantyre P8. Real interesting leagues!

Question of rock hard grounds in June is a valid point. The UK has followed the USA in becoming litigation crazy about any chance of a claim, where authorities can be held responsible. I don't know if referees are instructed to declare a pitch unplayable for just a few square feet that is still frost bound. Certainly going back some years, games went on when up to the ankles in mud and the lines had disappeared. A pail of sawdust was an essential at half time, if just to mark the goal lines.

[blue manalishi]

In a way you are correct, The controversy surrounding do the 'do we or don't we' have a go at trying a new season that cuts out what we have experienced weather wise since December to end of February, (or further) will continue to be debated. Couple of points.

Draw for R6 of the Scottish will be made on Friday. This means that R4-R5 & R6 are all in the last eight draw'

Sunday Post covered the summer/winter close down quite well last week. Fact is that the seniors are likely to start first week in July with sections drawn on a REGIONAL basis, with seeding for teams involved in Europe, That would mean the Seniors are starting SEVEN weeks before the juniors. 55% of junior fixtures have been lost since November.Leagues are in Chaos, Examples;Kelty P19 Musselburgh P14

Oakley P21 Tayport P14 Irvine Meadow P16 Hurlford P11 and Vale of Clyde P16 Blantyre P8. Real interesting leagues!

Question of rock hard grounds in June is a valid point. The UK has followed the USA in becoming litigation crazy about any chance of a claim, where authorities can be held responsible. I don't know if referees are instructed to declare a pitch unplayable for just a few square feet that is still frost bound. Certainly going back some years, games went on when up to the ankles in mud and the lines had disappeared. A pail of sawdust was an essential at half time, if just to mark the goal lines.

Good post.

The 'rock hard grounds in June' is just another scaremongering red herring in my opinion.

This is scotland , not Dubai ffs.

[superbigal]

Good post.

The 'rock hard grounds in June' is just another scaremongering red herring in my opinion.

This is scotland , not Dubai ffs.

I dont want matches off in June for rock hard pitches.

I want matches ON in winter when similarly hard.

[Hugoagogo]

I dont want matches off in June for rock hard pitches.

I want matches ON in winter when similarly hard.

There is a difference between hard pitches in summer & winter!! If your playing with blades or mouldies in these conditions a winter pitch your like bambi on ice whereas a summer pitch you keep your footing no problem.Think thats the reason they get called off in the winter.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

There is a difference between hard pitches in summer & winter!! If your playing with blades or mouldies in these conditions a winter pitch your like bambi on ice whereas a summer pitch you keep your footing no problem.Think thats the reason they get called off in the winter.

The problem with firm pitches due to frost is that if they're at all rutted or uneven it's very easy to damage an ankle or a knee.

A hard pitch in summer might easily be equally 'firm' but ruts and uneven patches aren't anywhere near as problematic - jump up and down on a frozen mound compared to a dry dirt mound and see which gives way first...

Also, referees called in for a pitch inspection at 09.30 have three options, not two. Game on, Game off or second inspection required - i.e. check it again at 12, half 12.

(The above is obviously subject to distance to travel by away team).

[Hugoagogo]

The problem with firm pitches due to frost is that if they're at all rutted or uneven it's very easy to damage an ankle or a knee.

A hard pitch in summer might easily be equally 'firm' but ruts and uneven patches aren't anywhere near as problematic - jump up and down on a frozen mound compared to a dry dirt mound and see which gives way first...

Also, referees called in for a pitch inspection at 09.30 have three options, not two. Game on, Game off or second inspection required - i.e. check it again at 12, half 12.

(The above is obviously subject to distance to travel by away team).[/ quote]AGREED!! that clarifies the winter/summer pitch debate then

[Loughal]

I appreciate some are sick to the teeth with this subject being raised annually. Is there an answer? It is obvious there can be no clear cut agreement on the alteration of the current system. But!

Cannot a small regional committee representative of the three regions, meet discuss the pros and cons, report to the SJFA then have a vote on a possible new approach to this annual problem at the AGM? It may well be that a majority of clubs prefer the status quo, if so then that's it. Of course it could be that clubs would be open to a new approach.

One point raised elsewhere is that the Scottish Cup final would be pushed into the backwoods of November, run into the same problems we have today, demeaning the major trophy, Well why cannot the Scottish be organised to climax late June? That would then give hopefully balanced leagues a proper place to contest Championships, promotion and relegation keeping the interest alive and equal, into seasons end in November. Too much to hope for?

[the original livi]

Difference in winter pitches have frozen areas and soft areas, that's why lot of games fail inspections.

Player running on soft area with grip onto hard with no grip has chance of injury, you have not got same problem in the summer.