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LL and HL clubs in the Junior Cup?


Bankies Alive

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Should the SJFA ask LL and HL clubs to participate in the Junior Cup?

It could help lead to the integration of all non-league football in Scotland and would give the Cup a shot in the arm.

It would also go some way to balancing the fact that 4 Junior Clubs play in the SFA cup.

Just putting it out there for discussion.

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Do we really want an invite?

A couple of years ago, I would have said yes. Now I am not so sure. I know it is seen as the Holy Grail in Junior circles but to the non-league seniors there is no mythical status. It will just be seen as yet another cup competition with very little reward until the (very) latter rounds.

The prospect of a journey north of the Forth is sweetened for us in the Big Scottish with a contribution towards traveling expenses from the SFA. I don't think there is any such guarantee from the SJFA. Although I seem to recall that the home team have to pay something towards the coach of the opposition???

It would be nice to meet Juniors on a more regular basis but I am not sure that there will be many takers in the SLFL or the HFL for what will just be seen as an extra cup competition.

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Do we really want an invite?

A couple of years ago, I would have said yes. Now I am not so sure. I know it is seen as the Holy Grail in Junior circles but to the non-league seniors there is no mythical status. It will just be seen as yet another cup competition with very little reward until the (very) latter rounds.

The prospect of a journey north of the Forth is sweetened for us in the Big Scottish with a contribution towards traveling expenses from the SFA. I don't think there is any such guarantee from the SJFA. Although I seem to recall that the home team have to pay something towards the coach of the opposition???

It would be nice to meet Juniors on a more regular basis but I am not sure that there will be many takers in the SLFL or the HFL for what will just be seen as an extra cup competition.

This is a really interesting thread with an even more interesting response above. It's good to hear from the other side of the fence and the reasons why the Junior Cup doesn't hold appeal for the HL or LL clubs.

As I don't know what happens behind the scenes, is it true that the clubs get no help with travelling costs from the regions or SJFA regardless of the draw? If so, I'm not surprised the other non-League associations aren't bothered.

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This is a really interesting thread with an even more interesting response above. It's good to hear from the other side of the fence and the reasons why the Junior Cup doesn't hold appeal for the HL or LL clubs.

As I don't know what happens behind the scenes, is it true that the clubs get no help with travelling costs from the regions or SJFA regardless of the draw? If so, I'm not surprised the other non-League associations aren't bothered.

3. In all ties up to but excluding the Semi-Final stages of the Cup competition the first drawn club must guarantee to reimburse the visiting team the amount due according to the following table:-

Distance Guarantee

0-25 miles £55

26-50 miles £95

51-75 miles £120

76-100 miles £170

101-150 miles £220

151-200 miles £270

201-250 miles £310

251-300 miles £340

Mileage shall be calculated on the basis of the shortest single journey between the competing clubs.

In addition those clubs incurring a 201 plus mile single journey, the Association will contribute a further 50% of the above guarantee towards the away team’s travel costs.

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This is a really interesting thread with an even more interesting response above. It's good to hear from the other side of the fence and the reasons why the Junior Cup doesn't hold appeal for the HL or LL clubs.

As I don't know what happens behind the scenes, is it true that the clubs get no help with travelling costs from the regions or SJFA regardless of the draw? If so, I'm not surprised the other non-League associations aren't bothered.

This is fom the SJFA rulebook regarding Scottish Junior Cup ties, as you will see you have to be going more than 201 miles each way to get any extra help.

3. In all ties up to but excluding the Semi-Final stages of the Cup

competition the first drawn club must guarantee to reimburse the

visiting team the amount due according to the following table:-

Distance 0-25 miles Guarantee £55

26-50 miles £95

51-75 miles £120

76-100 miles £170

101-150 miles £220

151-200 miles £270

201-250 miles £310

251-300 miles £340

Mileage shall be calculated on the basis of the shortest single

journey between the competing clubs.

In addition those clubs incurring a 201 plus mile single journey, the

Association will contribute a further 50% of the above guarantee

towards the away team’s travel costs.

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This is fom the SJFA rulebook regarding Scottish Junior Cup ties, as you will see you have to be going more than 201 miles each way to get any extra help.

3. In all ties up to but excluding the Semi-Final stages of the Cup

competition the first drawn club must guarantee to reimburse the

visiting team the amount due according to the following table:-

Distance 0-25 miles Guarantee £55

26-50 miles £95

51-75 miles £120

76-100 miles £170

101-150 miles £220

151-200 miles £270

201-250 miles £310

251-300 miles £340

Mileage shall be calculated on the basis of the shortest single

journey between the competing clubs.

In addition those clubs incurring a 201 plus mile single journey, the

Association will contribute a further 50% of the above guarantee

towards the away team’s travel costs.

Thanks for that. So the home team has to share the costs? Surprising.

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No chance under current arrangements. HL has 34 league games to complete, Scottish Cup, HL Cup, plus their local cup; LL will have 30 league games to complete, Scottish Cup, South Challenge Cup, LL Cup, plus their local cup. They've got fixture-lists largely wanting to be kept, too.

Junior Cup is all-in, 8 rounds long with replays, run over midwinter with ties dragging-on for weeks (sometimes months) and floodlights are a "no-no".

If streamlined and modernised the Junior Cup could become our FA Trophy (i.e. EOS+SOS added - maybe preluding integration). It would be more appealing for EOS+SOS clubs since many of them don't enter the more prestigious and lucrative Scottish Cup, whereas all HL+LL will.

HL+LL could perhaps join if HL reduced to 16 and say SCC abolished.

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Should the SJFA ask LL and HL clubs to participate in the Junior Cup?

It could help lead to the integration of all non-league football in Scotland and would give the Cup a shot in the arm.

It would also go some way to balancing the fact that 4 Junior Clubs play in the SFA cup.

Just putting it out there for discussion.

I'd add EoS and SoS as well, if it's meant to be a national non-league competition. Doubt it will/would ever happen though. Suspect the main problem would probably be getting the HL rather than the LL/EoS/SoS to see it as a worthwhile exercise in terms of the travel involved given junior football is not held in high regard in that part of the world. Also worth noting that attempts to create a national nonleague senior cup for the HL/EoS/SoS clubs soon fizzled the last time it was tried.

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These clubs probably watched the shambles of the recent draw and thought no way are we going to get involved I that carry on.Does the Scottish Cup tell us who's the best team in Scotland is? No.Does it have a sponsor? I think not,correct me if. I,m wrong.Does it,s precedence over everything else balls up the season?Yes.The only positive thing about getting to the final is appearing on the telly,oh,and we all get to learn some Gaelic!

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Of course not but its a bit rich slagging off the Junior Cup Final for being on Alba when there's loads of SPFL football on it!

There shouldn't be Senior/Junior, just football clubs.It must suit the SFA or they'd change it in a second.

did you read what I had written? I said it wAs "POSITVE" being on the telly!
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I can see the appeal of a nationwide non-league cup like the FA Trophy down south (I suppose you could argue the Amateur Cup is the Vase). However, unless it is viable i.e. profitable for clubs to compete, then they just won't. Currently, an HFL club will play 34 league fixtures, plus at least 1 in the Scottish Cup, League Cup (up to 5), Aberdeenshire/North of Scotland Cup (4-5).* So a minimum of 37/38 games assuming they get knocked out at the first stage each time, which unless you're Strathspey Thistle (can't say Fort William anymore), is unlikely. The district cups admit the SPFL (plus others, including Banks o' Dee) teams too and see good crowds and local derbies, so can't see the clubs giving that up. Maybe some kind of "Champions' League" competition, but even then, I honestly can't see anyone (senior or junior) getting excited by it. The desire to play Auchinleck, Linlithgow et al simply isn't there in the HFL.

Personally, I think a unified structure below the SPFL is sorely needed, but pragmatically is going to need a lot of concessions from all sides of the debate. I can certainly see the SFA stepping in on this in the not-so-distant future, rightly or wrongly.

*I forgot the Aberdeenshire Shield too

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