Deefiant Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Which club in Scotland is the best at developing its own youth players? Having a debate with an Arab pal today over who is the best in Scotland at developing their own talent. His statement was that Utd were one of, if not the, best in the country at developing their own players. I put to him that utd have a good record but also rely heavily on poaching young players from other clubs academies/ first teams at a lower level (an admirable skill to have) but that in terms of taking schoolboys through to the first team other clubs have a better track record. I concede that Ryan gauld is a once in a generation type talent and utd are to be commended for his development but who is the most consistent? I make 4 or 5 teams better or at least on a par with Utd (Dundee are not one of them you will be shocked to hear) Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MAC Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hamilton must be up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There seem to be a number of players who came through at Livingston and have made a step up to a decent level. Snodgrass and Dorrans especially, now both playing in the EPL, and Griffiths has done not bad for himself either. Then there's the likes of Scougall and McNulty who have made the move down south and will most likely move upwards from their current League One status as well. There's just off the top of my head, so there may be more. Or it may also be that some of those players weren't even at Livingston originally. I'm just lazy like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Dundee United, Hamilton and St Mirren. United maybe develop youngsters from the lower leagues as much as they do their own, but the money they've made recently is testament to their success there. Similar story with accies and St Mirren have 7 or 8 from their academy playing regularly in their first team. Shout outs to Falkirk and Hearts from the lower leagues too. After years of neglect, ours is starting to produce. 3 of our kids are getting fairly regular game time and we got £800k + add ons for another in the summer. We've also got 2 out on loan to championship clubs and a few in the divisions below that as well as a striker who managed 33 goals in 14 games for Spartans u20s. Looking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It depends what the definition of bringing through players is. Is it who is best at bringing through a lot of players for their own first team, or who is producing more international players. St Mirren have had good success at bringing through guys for their first team, but very few (if any?) have gone on to play for Scotland. Dundee Utd have developed a couple of almost guaranteed future Scotland players over the last few years (Armstrong and Gauld), but much of their success comes in bringing in young guys from lower league clubs and developing them. Hamilton and Livingston both seem to have a bit of both - both have a first team squad with a lot of homegrown players, and also have guys who have gone on to play internationally (McArthur & McCarthy for Hamilton, Snodgrass, Dorrans & Griffiths for Livi). I think Killie do very well at it too. There are 9 players who have featured for us this season who had some involvement in our youth system - Samson, Barbour, Ashcroft, Hamill, O'Hara, McKenzie, Johnston and Muirhead have come through more or less all the way, while Slater was signed from St Mirren as a teenager. We've also brought through a fair few Scotland players in recent years too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeefc1783 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Have a few players not come through at Queens Park and gone onto be decent players Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Have a few players not come through at Queens Park and gone onto be decent players Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app Yes - and they got stolen by coonts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dublinarab Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Utd brought through goodie, and Russell from schoolboys as well - combined transfer fees of 3 mill and both internationals. Also Dow and Watson were utd youths with a couple of hundred SPFL appearences between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I hope we stick by the youth program this time, we seemed to panic as soon as we werent producing world class stars every week and decided money would be better spent on Jordan Tait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Down the years Motherwell have had an excellent youth system but it went to shit about 5 or 6 years ago. I have hopes for Dom Thomas though. If nothing else over the years I've been watching Motherwell we've produced Gary McAllistar, Tom Boyd and James McFadden - that's 177 Scotland caps right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 At what point do you say a club is the one to be credited for a players development? It's becoming increasing rare to see a player has been at the one club all the way through pro-youth, u20s and then first team. Take some of the players mentioned above, you have players like scrougall who played at several pro-youth teams. Or someone like robertson, Dundee united will want credit there, same as queens park, hull would probably like to praise themselves for bringing him into the premier league and improving his game, similarly sporting lisbon with gauld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Our team on Saturday had McAusland (captain), Kelly, Naismith, Mallan, McLear, McGinn, Mclean starting (7) and four on the bench (Reilly, Morgan, Wilks and Baird). 11 out of 18 from our Academy although Wilks only joined our Academy last year. The rest have been developed by the Club. The results are only now beginning to show in a regular manner. We may be in a poor position for now but if we can stay up and continue producing players like the above then the future is very bright. The Academy has become the backbone of our team although we have not as yet received anything in transfers but Kelly, Mclean and McGinn have all been capped at Under21 level and many of the others at Under 18 and Under 19 Scotland level. Probably the youngest team in the SPFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 These are the youth systems that have produced current top flight Scottish players. Just counting players over the age of 20 as players younger than that may just be making up the numbers. Added ages in as I think it's relevant to see how teams have progressed or declined. Aberdeen Andrew Considine (27) Russell Anderson (36) Peter Pawlett (23) Nicky Low (23) Clark Robertson (21) Ryan Jack (22) Jamie Masson (21) Scott Bain (23) Ryan Esson (34) Celtic Charlie Mulgrew (28) Callum McGregor (21) James Forrest (23) Gary Irvine (29) Kevin McBride (33) Simon Ferry (27) Paul McGowan (27) Michael McGovern (30) Michael Devlin (21)*is this right? Craig Reid (28) Stephen McManus (32) Paul Lawson (30) Scott Fox (27) Stephen O'Donnell (22)*also Aberdeen but longer at Celtic Rocco Quinn (28) Lewis Toshney (22) Michael Gardyne (29) Chris Millar (31) Jim Goodwin (33) Mo Yaqub (21) Dundee Jamie Langfield (35) Dave Mackay (34) Dundee United David Goodwillie (25) Keith Watson (25) Ryan Dow (23) Paul Gallacher (35) Steven Anderson (29) Steven Thomson (36) Hamilton Ziggy Gordon (21) Grant Gillespie (23) Ali Crawford (23) Brian Easton (26) Hearts Craig Gordon (32) Greg Stewart (24)* fell to amateurs at 16 and played there for a few years Hibs Scott Brown (29) Kevin Thomson (30) Sean Welsh (24) Callum Booth (23) David Wotherspoon (25)*also Celtic Inverness Stuart Armstrong (22) Graeme Shinnie (23) Nick Ross (23) Killie Craig Samson (30) Ross Barbour (21) Jamie Hamill (28) Rory McKenzie (21) Lee Ashcroft (21) Gary McDonald (32) Motherwell Mark Reynolds (27) David Clarkson (29) Kieran MacDonald (21) Stevie Hammell (32) Stuart Carswell (21) Keith Lasley (35) Robert McHugh (23) Fraser Kerr (22)*also Birmingham Stephen Pearson (32) Steven Lawless (23) Paul Quinn (29) James McFadden (31) Partick Thistle Stuart Bannigan (22) Ross County Gary Mackay-Stevens (24) Steven Ross (21) Mark Ridgers (24) St. Johnstone Willie Dyer (27) Liam Caddis (21) St. Mirren Simon Lappin (32) Sean Kelly (21) Marc McAusland (26) Kenny McLean (23) Queen's Park Paul McGinn (24)*going by wikipedia Paul Cairney (27) Steven Saunders (23) Livingston Leigh Griffiths (24) *also involved with Falkirk and Hibs but I credit Livi since he joined at 16. Jim McAllister (29)*Morton involvement as well Scott Boyd (28) Richard Brittain (31) Murray Davidson (26) Garry Miller (27) Rangers Barry Robson (36) Jordan McMillan (26) Mark Brown (33) Gregg Wylde (23)*also Celtic but very early on Clydebank Martin Canning (33) Gary Teale (36) Falkirk Lee Miller (31) Darren Barr (29) Tom Scobbie (26 Elgin City Iain Vigurs (26) Stranraer Frazer Wright (35) Morton Brian Graham (27) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I hope we stick by the youth program this time, we seemed to panic as soon as we werent producing world class stars every week and decided money would be better spent on Jordan Tait. That's nonsense. We panicked because the season we were relegated we made a loss of £1 million and clearly had to make cuts. The teams we were running at SPL level (U21 and U18) were going to have nowhere to go but the SFL Reserve League and with the youth system costing, IIRC, about £300,000 to run, it was a way for the club to make a big indent in trying to address the financial losses. Personally, I'm not sold on the merits of the investment we are making at the moment and it's already backfired in part because we've been turned down for the elite level and the additional funding that goes with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fony Titz Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 These are the youth systems that have produced current top flight Scottish players. Just counting players over the age of 20 as players younger than that may just be making up the numbers. Added ages in as I think it's relevant to see how teams have progressed or declined. Aberdeen Andrew Considine (27) Russell Anderson (36) Peter Pawlett (23) Nicky Low (23) Clark Robertson (21) Ryan Jack (22) Jamie Masson (21) Scott Bain (23) Ryan Esson (34) Celtic Charlie Mulgrew (28) Callum McGregor (21) James Forrest (23) Gary Irvine (29) Kevin McBride (33) Simon Ferry (27) Paul McGowan (27) Michael McGovern (30) Michael Devlin (21)*is this right? Craig Reid (28) Stephen McManus (32) Paul Lawson (30) Scott Fox (27) Stephen O'Donnell (22)*also Aberdeen but longer at Celtic Rocco Quinn (28) Lewis Toshney (22) Michael Gardyne (29) Chris Millar (31) Jim Goodwin (33) Mo Yaqub (21) Dundee Jamie Langfield (35) Dave Mackay (34) Dundee United David Goodwillie (25) Keith Watson (25) Ryan Dow (23) Paul Gallacher (35) Steven Anderson (29) Steven Thomson (36) Hamilton Ziggy Gordon (21) Grant Gillespie (23) Ali Crawford (23) Brian Easton (26) Hearts Craig Gordon (32) Greg Stewart (24)* fell to amateurs at 16 and played there for a few years Hibs Scott Brown (29) Kevin Thomson (30) Sean Welsh (24) Callum Booth (23) David Wotherspoon (25)*also Celtic Inverness Stuart Armstrong (22) Graeme Shinnie (23) Nick Ross (23) Killie Craig Samson (30) Ross Barbour (21) Jamie Hamill (28) Rory McKenzie (21) Lee Ashcroft (21) Gary McDonald (32) Motherwell Mark Reynolds (27) David Clarkson (29) Kieran MacDonald (21) Stevie Hammell (32) Stuart Carswell (21) Keith Lasley (35) Robert McHugh (23) Fraser Kerr (22)*also Birmingham Stephen Pearson (32) Steven Lawless (23) Paul Quinn (29) James McFadden (31) Partick Thistle Stuart Bannigan (22) Ross County Gary Mackay-Stevens (24) Steven Ross (21) Mark Ridgers (24) St. Johnstone Willie Dyer (27) Liam Caddis (21) St. Mirren Simon Lappin (32) Sean Kelly (21) Marc McAusland (26) Kenny McLean (23) Queen's Park Paul McGinn (24)*going by wikipedia Paul Cairney (27) Steven Saunders (23) Livingston Leigh Griffiths (24) *also involved with Falkirk and Hibs but I credit Livi since he joined at 16. Jim McAllister (29)*Morton involvement as well Scott Boyd (28) Richard Brittain (31) Murray Davidson (26) Garry Miller (27) Rangers Barry Robson (36) Jordan McMillan (26) Mark Brown (33) Gregg Wylde (23)*also Celtic but very early on Clydebank Martin Canning (33) Gary Teale (36) Falkirk Lee Miller (31) Darren Barr (29) Tom Scobbie (26 Elgin City Iain Vigurs (26) Stranraer Frazer Wright (35) Morton Brian Graham (27) you could also credit Celtic with Graham Carey. I'd have thought Hibs would have had more as they seemed to bring through a raft of good players once upon a time but they all end up fucked up wasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hamilton and Livingston both seem to have a bit of both - both have a first team squad with a lot of homegrown players, and also have guys who have gone on to play internationally (McArthur & McCarthy for Hamilton, Snodgrass, Dorrans, Griffiths and Murray Davidson for Livi). That's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MAC Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Third, was it not? Was this not just on facilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There seem to be a number of players who came through at Livingston and have made a step up to a decent level. Snodgrass and Dorrans especially, now both playing in the EPL, and Griffiths has done not bad for himself either. Then there's the likes of Scougall and McNulty who have made the move down south and will most likely move upwards from their current League One status as well. There's just off the top of my head, so there may be more. Or it may also be that some of those players weren't even at Livingston originally. I'm just lazy like that. Whilst appreciating the point that players can play for a few clubs in their youth spell, I agree that Livingston appear to have an impressive record for payers that have featured for them. I think a few of our youngsters have passed through them at some stage. Our latest great hope, Dylan Easton, certainly did. Hamilton obviously do well too but for the number of players that have progressed to bigger and better things then Livi are ahead of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deefiant Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Harry's list is decent but misses out obvious players like mcgeady, McCarthy and Mcpake due to their choice of national team as opposed to places of birth. Also misses anyone who is playing down south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Harry's list is decent but misses out obvious players like mcgeady, McCarthy and Mcpake due to their choice of national team as opposed to places of birth. Also misses anyone who is playing down south. Also misses out guys like Kris Boyd, Steven Naismith and Cammy Bell who've came through our youth system but don't play in SPL but have full Scotland caps. Many teams will be same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.