Quitongo's Left Peg Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Not only are they divided by their propensity to grow hair follicles (or lack thereof), Alex Neil and Paul Hartley have both taken opposing methods of taking their newly promoted club into the fabled promised land. Alex Neil at Hamilton took the unfashionable route of trusting in the majority of his squad from the previous Championship season, with only a few additions. The majority of whom were regulars in a team that finished below the eventual winners Dundee... A Dundee side which Paul Hartley pretty much decimated, and built back up again to face the new division. Both methods deserve a lot of credit, as they've worked fantastically well 'til this stage, but the question is such - which method deserves the most praise? Hartley for managing to mould a relatively new squad into a team capable of challenging for the top six? Or Neil for coaching his group into league leaders for a decent while? Who is the better manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im_Rodger Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 If you changed the 'and' in the title to 'VS' there would be an absolute shit storm with me leading the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I think Hartley will go on to have the more successful management career and there's an argument that Hartley's had the more difficult job as he limped over the line with a poor, poor John Brown side (Helped in part to an Alex Neil bottle job in the penultimate game of the season) then had to sign a whole new side, and make them gel in time for the coming season. He's done an excellent job at Dens and is probably the best manager we've had since Archie Knox and on reflection, there's no reason why he won't be better. Having said that though, Alex Neil's achievements deserve the highest of respect. He's got a young, good footballing side that he's had since they were very young (I believe he was the youth coach/player before becoming player/manager?) and he's nurtured them and this is their season so to speak. He's got Championship standard players playing well above themselves such as Curier and has addressed key areas of the team that were just too weak for this league ie, a prudent signing of McGovern to replace the shaky Cuthbert. (Although paying money for Darren Hill was a strange one!) Therefore, on summary, I think both managers deserve a lot of credit. Hartley's worked tremendously hard to bring in a very good team and Neil's continued to nurture his young one's and get the best out of his elder statesman to make themselves a success in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Clearly Neil had no resources ergo he had no option but to stick with last season's squad - hence he can take f**k all credit. It's a shoe in for Hartley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilky1878 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I think Hartley will go on to have the more successful management career and there's an argument that Hartley's had the more difficult job as he limped over the line with a poor, poor John Brown side (Helped in part to an Alex Neil bottle job in the penultimate game of the season) then had to sign a whole new side, and make them gel in time for the coming season. He's done an excellent job at Dens and is probably the best manager we've had since Archie Knox and on reflection, there's no reason why he won't be better. Having said that though, Alex Neil's achievements deserve the highest of respect. He's got a young, good footballing side that he's had since they were very young (I believe he was the youth coach/player before becoming player/manager?) and he's nurtured them and this is their season so to speak. He's got Championship standard players playing well above themselves such as Curier and has addressed key areas of the team that were just too weak for this league ie, a prudent signing of McGovern to replace the shaky Cuthbert. (Although paying money for Darren Hill was a strange one!) Therefore, on summary, I think both managers deserve a lot of credit. Hartley's worked tremendously hard to bring in a very good team and Neil's continued to nurture his young one's and get the best out of his elder statesman to make themselves a success in the league. This. One other thing aswell is that Hartley did the exact same with Alloa as he has done with Dundee, stripped and rebuilt an entire Squad. This shows that he knows what he wants and how to achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggy Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Neil is doing an incredible job with Hamilton. To firstly gain promotion against sides with vastly superior resources, then to lead them to the top end of the Premiership is worthy of the highest praise. Hartley inherited a hard-working side devoid of much creativity and who were on a bit of a slump. To turn that around and beat Hamilton to the title with that group of players was a great achievement. He's managed to dismantle that side and lead a group of new players to the top six - again, worthy of the highest praise. In comparing the two, it's difficult. Hartley now has three promotions on his managerial record in what is only his fourth season as manager. I always think a true reflection of a manager's capabilities is how well they do in the transfer market. Hartley has obviously excelled in this area so far, whereas Neil probably hasn't been tested as much through a combination of choice and resources. Hartley is ruthlessly ambitious. I think he'll probably go further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MAC Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hard to judge but id say Neil. He is working with pretty much less everything compared to Hartley and has done the same job ( promotion and top 6 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 An Alex Neil team has never beaten a Paul Hartley team. Close the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MAC Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 An Alex Neil team has never beaten a Paul Hartley team. Close the thread. If managers were judged on 3 or 4 games a season, then I would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggy Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hard to judge but id say Neil. He is working with pretty much less everything compared to Hartley and has done the same job ( promotion and top 6 . It's difficult to argue with, but what I would say is that Neil has had a few seasons with his Hamilton side whereas Hartley hasn't even had one season with Dundee. He's been our best signing in the last decade, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 If managers were judged on 3 or 4 games a season, then I would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 ...I always think a true reflection of a manager's capabilities is how well they do in the transfer market. Hartley has obviously excelled in this area so far, whereas Neil probably hasn't been tested as much through a combination of choice and resources...I have to disagree, he's brought in some real talent in McGovern, Jesus (most of the time), Andreu, Redmond (most of the time) and Scotland who was crucial to us going up last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MAC Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Also last season was his 1st full season in charge of us, although players like Devlin and hendrie did play under him at youth level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Insanity Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I think Hartley may well go on to have a better career, having played at a higher level gives you a significant advantage in moving up the ladder, but on their achievements with their respective sides to date, it's got to be Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hartley needs to hit the fruit and veg aisle in the Riverside Tesco IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Not only are they divided by their propensity to grow hair follicles (or lack thereof) Word salad. Both of them deserve praise, with supporters of either club more inclined to praise their own manager. Probably best revisiting this at the end of the season, but Hamilton's current lofty position is more eye-catching and Hartley's managerial performance is in danger of being overshadowed by the Clarkson's form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Clearly Neil had no resources ergo he had no option but to stick with last season's squad - hence he can take f**k all credit. It's a shoe in for Hartley. You make a compelling case for Neil there - he's performing better than Hartley in the league despite having fewer resources. It's a bit like Mourinho v Guardiola. Hartley is the Mourinho character, spending more money and achieving success via reductive and defensive tactics, while Neil is the Guardiola, who has achieved success by bringing through youth players and developing an identity and ethos at the club. Both could well go on to a high level. Hartley could be a future Scotland manager I reckon - he has the right mentality for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You make a compelling case for Neil there - he's performing better than Hartley in the league despite having fewer resources. It's a bit like Mourinho v Guardiola. Hartley is the Mourinho character, spending more money and achieving success via reductive and defensive tactics, while Neil is the Guardiola, who has achieved success by bringing through youth players and developing an identity and ethos at the club. Both could well go on to a high level. Hartley could be a future Scotland manager I reckon - he has the right mentality for it. Hartley has us playing an attacking style of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Word salad. Both of them deserve praise, with supporters of either club more inclined to praise their own manager. Probably best revisiting this at the end of the season, but Hamilton's current lofty position is more eye-catching and Hartley's managerial performance is in danger of being overshadowed by the Clarkson's form. Just as Neil's is in danger of being overshadowed by Andreu's form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hartley has us playing an attacking style of football. I have no idea how anyone who's watched us would come away thinking anything else. I was expecting to see a lot of lone striker roles but he pretty much always has at least 3 attacking players on the pitch at once. If anything we're too attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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