Blue-Toon Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Only 19 out of 552 senior coaching positions (3.4%) at England's 92 league clubs are held by black and ethnic minority coaches, a new report has revealed. The report also shows that 25% of the players are from black or ethnic minorities. Does this show discriminantion against black and ethnic minorities when appointing coaches or discrimination in favour of black and ethnic minorities when signing players? Personally I couldn't give a toss who my team signs or employees as a coach as long as they can do the job. Looks like another report we could do without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanmistermustard Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Personally i've always thought you should hire because the individual is right for the position regardless of colour, race etc. And surely hiring purely because the person is black or of ethnic minority is just as bad as not hiring for the same reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue-Toon Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Personally i've always thought you should hire because the individual is right for the position regardless of colour, race etc. And surely hiring purely because the person is black or of ethnic minority is just as bad as not hiring for the same reason? Totally agree. What's next? Not enough female coaches, gay coaches, disabled coaches? Hire the best candidate for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'm of the same belief. However I remember Paul Ince going off on one about this subject a few years ago. As far as he is concerned: Even if he was the best candidate for the job in every other way, his race would stop me from hiring him. Specifically how he defines his race and its influence on others and the fact that I'd be worried about him bandying round allegations of racism if it ever became nessescary to fire him. His actions probably set back racial equality in football management by a decade or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Only 19 out of 552 senior coaching positions (3.4%) at England's 92 league clubs are held by black and ethnic minority coaches, a new report has revealed. The report also shows that 25% of the players are from black or ethnic minorities. Does this show discriminantion against black and ethnic minorities when appointing coaches or discrimination in favour of black and ethnic minorities when signing players? Personally I couldn't give a toss who my team signs or employees as a coach as long as they can do the job. Looks like another report we could do without. Mildly surprised at the 25% figure. Do you have a link to the report please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Players are hired purely on their value to the team. Managers are hired partly for this and partly how well they get on with the owners. Being as a fair number of owners and directors are likely to be elderly unreconstructed bigots, being white could be a big advantage for would be managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Not sure it's been released yet... It's the subject of this BBC article here. Apparently a think-thank is to announce its findings this afternoon, and is likely to recommend the introduction of positive discrimination - i.e. a quota system, whereby clubs must interview a black person for each coaching vacancy - and special funding and support for black managers and coaches. Although no-one seems entirely sure. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29976832 Personally, I do not like the idea of positive discrimination, and I'm not convinced that there is the level of racism that seems to be given as the explanation for the disparity between black players v coaches. What % of FL players were black in the 1980s or early 1990s? What % of those were British? It wouldn't surprise me if the figures were much closer to the current coaching figures, as professional players who were in their 20s then will be in their 40s now and therefore in the more usual age to be a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 As HJ said, I think gradually the coaching numbers will reflect the increasing participation of ethnic minorities in the game. The caveat being that players are paid a lot more now, and don't need to go into management or coaching. Indeed, the best job you can get is the no blame culture of footballing punditry, where you criticise others without needing to do anything yourself. Of course, in terms of footballers there is a wealth of data to demonstrate that players of West African descent have a significantly higher participation in top level football than their comparable percentage of the overall population. It's certainly an area in which Scotland falls behind, England has a significantly higher number of immigrants of West African descent than Scotland (and, indeed, other parts of the UK) and this is reflected in the composition of their senior national side. So Scotland - encourage more immigration for people of West African descent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think to make any form of acusation of discrimination you'd need to see the number of minority applicants to the jobs, but I am a little concerned at the lack of diversity amongst backroom football staff and I'm of the opinion that positive discrimination is often required to break cycles, even if it seems inherently unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Players are hired purely on their value to the team. Managers are hired partly for this and partly how well they get on with the owners. Being as a fair number of owners and directors are likely to be elderly unreconstructed bigots, being white could be a big advantage for would be managers. Disgraceful ageism there, shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 There is no such thing as positive discrimination. It is just discrimination that suits an agenda with a adjective added. Positive discrimination = discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Players are hired purely on their value to the team. Managers are hired partly for this and partly how well they get on with the owners. Being as a fair number of owners and directors are likely to be elderly unreconstructed bigots, being white could be a big advantage for would be managers. any proof of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Research shows that in everyday jobs there is clear evidence of racial discrimination when it comes to hiring people, so I see no reason why it wouldn't apply to football as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 There is no such thing as positive discrimination. It is just discrimination that suits an agenda with a adjective added. Positive discrimination = discrimination. How would you increase the diversity of backroom football stafrf then? Or do you not think it's an issue at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Psychosis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Anyone read Soccernomics? Their statistical analysis seems to suggest that there is indeed a racial bias to hiring patterns of football managers. I would have absolutely no problem with a "Rooney rule" in football. Football can only benefit from having a wider talent pool to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I suppose there is also a question as to whether the issue... if there is one... centres around black coaches and managers not being appointed to jobs for which they have applied and would get if they were white; or whether there is a shortage of black managers wanting posts or obtaining qualifications. Hughton and Ince are usually used by the media as examples of the best black managers with the follow-up being that they're currently without managers jobs. However, in the case of Hughton he has been assistant manager and thrice manager at major clubs - Spurs, Newcastle, Birmingham, Norwich - then got the sack from 3 over poor results (although rather harshly in the case of Newcastle). Ince has managed 6 clubs about the Football League in 7 years - from those, he quit Swidon as he felt playing-managing was too much, then was head-hunted from Macclesfield and then MK Dons, but then got sacked off Blackburn, quit MK Dons, got sacked off Notts County and finally quit Blackpool after getting a long ban for misconduct and with fan calls for his head. Therefore it would seem that Hughton and Ince at least haven't struggled to obtain jobs, they've struggled to keep them due to underperformance. So... would positive discrimination make it liklier that Hughton or Ince, or others presumably less rated or qualified, would get posts they currently don't? Or are they just not good enough, just like many white managers - and the issue is instead a shortage of black coaches to begin with (whether for historical-demographic reasons or discrimination reasons), with fewer black coaches overall in turn meaning fewer black coaches of elite level feeding-through. It's intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAFC Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Let's hire people on the basis of skin colour rather than competence. If you had to interview six candidates and they were all white but there was a black candidate who didn't quite make it would you then be forced to: 1. Interview him also in order to pass some sort of quota, even thought you know he won't get the job. 2. Tell one of the six white candidates they aren't good enough when they are. Also isn't it racist to ask what ethnicity you are when you apply for a job? I think the Tonev situation has been handled badly too, now everyone thinks he's a racist despite zero evidence against him other than the word of one player who seems to be a bit of a hothead. I know that there is a reason for positive discrimination but I don't agree with it at all. It's one of the reasons morons vote for BNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think its racist when you fill out forms and have to say you are white - British. Surely your country of origin is the only thing that could matter ? This is definitely a statistic we could do without, a lot has been done to kick racism out of football and out of society and throwing these sort of figures out help no one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Also isn't it racist to ask what ethnicity you are when you apply for a job? Often it isn't necessary to ask. The Department of Work and Pensions commissioned a study a little while back looking into discriminatory hiring practices. They created 3 fictional profiles, gave them virtually identical education and work histories, and used them to apply for ~ 3,000 jobs. The only real difference in the CVs were the names used: Nazia Mahmood, Mariam Namagembe and Alison Taylor. They found that Alison Taylor received a positive response to her applications nearly twice as often as the more 'ethnic' sounding candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The ethnic monitoring part of applications is seperated from the rest of it for processing who will be interviewed. The monitoring part is used for statistical purposes and has no use in any other part of the applcation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.