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The Two Scottish Cups


Loughal

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While either by qualifying or being accepted into the hallowed halls of the SFA there are six (I think) junior clubs in the senior Scottish on Saturday. I have Unconfirmed reports that the this Round2 is worth 4K to each club following 3K for the R1. Is this true?

A t our weekly Dalkeith gathering on Monday one claimed he had heard the breakdown of a Scottish junior tie on Saturday. Said the cash drawn at the gate amounted to near £700. The 3 referees in fees and ex's came to £120. The North region team had to be paid £300 for their bus. The SJFA claimed their usual 10% =£70 leaving £210 to be split between the teams. So the home club had £110 left to pay their players wages + ex's. He also said that every yellow card cost each club a tenner with the red on £20.

Is this all a fair or average account of the junior cup when a north region team comes a visiting and of course reverse it if an east (and west) club heads north.

How if there is a semblence of truth in this are the poorer clubs surviving?

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While either by qualifying or being accepted into the hallowed halls of the SFA there are six (I think) junior clubs in the senior Scottish on Saturday. I have Unconfirmed reports that the this Round2 is worth 4K to each club following 3K for the R1. Is this true?

Correct - 7 clubs, but Girvan have been eliminated.

Moneywise, there's thread in Domestic Cup & LL forums. Apparently it's £2k for Preliminary ties - same for R1 - £4k for R2 - then £6k - and so on. Plus >£400 travel grant (upto R2 - from R3 it comes out of the gate) and £600 per match commercial payment.

Looking at the online rulebook, SFA levy only 5% of the gate and only in R4-R6. Clubs keep the lot upto and including R3. Home club takes 1/5 for costs, remainder divided 50-50.

There are deductions for Reds & Yellows.

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A t our weekly Dalkeith gathering on Monday one claimed he had heard the breakdown of a Scottish junior tie on Saturday. Said the cash drawn at the gate amounted to near £700. The 3 referees in fees and ex's came to £120. The North region team had to be paid £300 for their bus. The SJFA claimed their usual 10% =£70 leaving £210 to be split between the teams. So the home club had £110 left to pay their players wages + ex's. He also said that every yellow card cost each club a tenner with the red on £20.

Is this all a fair or average account of the junior cup when a north region team comes a visiting and of course reverse it if an east (and west) club heads north.

They don't get £300 for the bus AND half the gate money.

They are GUARANTEED a set amount.

Taking your figures :

Gate money £700

Less referees/exp £120

Sub-total £580

SJFA get 10% of this £58

Total to be shared £522

Half of this is only £261 so they get the guarantee £300 (?) instead.

So the £700 would be shared

Home club £222

Away club £300

Referee/exp £120

SJFA £58

Had there been say £1,400 at the gate it would be divided

Referees/exp £120

Sub total £1,280

SJFA £128

Both clubs would then get £576 each from the balance.

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What both Hibee Jibee & theesel 1994 confirm is that clubs faced with £3/500 bus bills simply cannot make ends meet. Yet the Tom Johnstone,s SJFA are sitting back taking 10 % from the preliminary round. If as in cases the gate money amounts to less than £100 then the home club is hit with the visitors bus costs, or is it just half the cost.

Allowing for the senior sponsorship cash the SFA still make no deductionsuntil R4 & 6 and that is only 5%.

Why on earth do the junior clubs stand for this stupidity of being robbed by their own association. Can they not campaign and get rid of these charges plus the people who administer it. Most clubs find a complete burden, especially those who do not have any crowds to get a few quid in at the gates.

It is now understandable why the momentum to get signed up to the SFA makes it an attractive proposition and gathering support. Or is it the thin edge of the web to destroy the Juniors?

Whatever the thoughts Tom Johnstne & Co should be made to answer the justification of what they are doing.

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...

Why on earth do the junior clubs stand for this stupidity of being robbed by their own association. Can they not campaign and get rid of these charges plus the people who administer it. p

...

Whatever the thoughts Tom Johnstne & Co should be made to answer the justification of what they are doing.

The first paragraph is why the SJFA don't need to justify themselves - least of all to the clubs who they are under instruction from
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What both Hibee Jibee & theesel 1994 confirm is that clubs faced with £3/500 bus bills simply cannot make ends meet. Yet the Tom Johnstone,s SJFA are sitting back taking 10 % from the preliminary round. If as in cases the gate money amounts to less than £100 then the home club is hit with the visitors bus costs, or is it just half the cost.

Allowing for the senior sponsorship cash the SFA still make no deductionsuntil R4 & 6 and that is only 5%.

Why on earth do the junior clubs stand for this stupidity of being robbed by their own association. Can they not campaign and get rid of these charges plus the people who administer it. Most clubs find a complete burden, especially those who do not have any crowds to get a few quid in at the gates.

It is now understandable why the momentum to get signed up to the SFA makes it an attractive proposition and gathering support. Or is it the thin edge of the web to destroy the Juniors?

Whatever the thoughts Tom Johnstne & Co should be made to answer the justification of what they are doing.

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The away club receives their guarantee regardless of how low the gate is. However if their share of the gate is higher than the guarantee then they receive the higher amount. As a previous poster said the 10% for the SJFA is deducted after the officials expenses are taken off.

Based on your example that is only £58 so both clubs would only lose £29. Is that figure enough to finish clubs off?

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Think it's tough for every club and other factors are at play, for example the size of country we have.. travel costs are just way too expensive. I Traveled over 200 miles in the states for the cost of a return bus from Killie to Hurlford. Should have some sort of legislation/policy that exempts registered sports clubs and charities from paying tax on fuel imo.

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Think it's tough for every club and other factors are at play, for example the size of country we have.. travel costs are just way too expensive. I Traveled over 200 miles in the states for the cost of a return bus from Killie to Hurlford. Should have some sort of legislation/policy that exempts registered sports clubs and charities from paying tax on fuel imo.

Starbucks FC would love that - registered football club with a sideline in selling coffee ;)

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The first paragraph is why the SJFA don't need to justify themselves - least of all to the clubs who they are under instruction from

The first paragraph is why the SJFA don't need to justify themselves - least of all to the clubs who they are under instruction from

Agree with you there O N. Yet surely the clubs should expect guidence and help from Tom Johnstone. The basic truth must be that there isn't a any semblence of thought as to how clubs could save this drag on funds.

Is it too ridiculous to go back to the oft punted course that the R1 & R2 be played on a a regional basis. I know it is old hat but with replays there are 18 games with £300= bus bills in the preliminary first round. They tell me Johnstone has one answer to that proposal, 'It would take away from the romance of the cup'. Romance ? Just ask all the clubs struggling to raise cash how romantic they feel it is.

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Is it too ridiculous to go back to the oft punted course that the R1 & R2 be played on a a regional basis. I know it is old hat but with replays there are 18 games with £300= bus bills in the preliminary first round. They tell me Johnstone has one answer to that proposal, 'It would take away from the romance of the cup'. Romance ? Just ask all the clubs struggling to raise cash how romantic they feel it is.


I've travelled a wee bit in my few years with Haddington. I haven't come across any particular desire to go back to regionalisation for the Scottish. My own opinion is that it would destroy the already limited interest in the early rounds.
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Agree with you there O N. Yet surely the clubs should expect guidence and help from Tom Johnstone. The basic truth must be that there isn't a any semblence of thought as to how clubs could save this drag on funds.

Is it too ridiculous to go back to the oft punted course that the R1 & R2 be played on a a regional basis. I know it is old hat but with replays there are 18 games with £300= bus bills in the preliminary first round. They tell me Johnstone has one answer to that proposal, 'It would take away from the romance of the cup'. Romance ? Just ask all the clubs struggling to raise cash how romantic they feel it is.

If it costs really are an issue, would it be too ridiculous for the SJFA to subsidise buses in R1-R3?

It would cost several thousand £ per season but then again threads on here periodically claim they have a 6-figure sum in the bank.

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If it costs really are an issue, would it be too ridiculous for the SJFA to subsidise buses in R1-R3?

They already do - up to the semis

3. In all ties up to but excluding the Semi-Final stages of the Cup competition the first drawn club must guarantee to reimburse the visiting team the amount due according to the following table:-
Distance
0-25 miles £55
26-50 miles £95
51-75 miles £120
76-100 miles £170
101-150 miles £220
151-200 miles £270
201-250 miles £310
251-300 miles £340
Mileage shall be calculated on the basis of the shortest single journey between the competing clubs.
In addition those clubs incurring a 201 plus mile single journey, the Association will contribute a further 50% of the above guarantee towards the away team’s travel costs.
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They already do - up to th

Not quite clear about this O.N. In all cases it is a single journey quoted, clearly they must return.

Take R2 Burghead v Lugar that must be near 500 mile round trip and the bus costs could be in the £400+ region. Could you tell us how that would work out.

Our weekly rant in Leith for a change Our mate Dave said there were 16 games between north and south,add the fact that another 25 consist of some 2/250 round trips between east and west. Around 40 clubs facing range 100 to 550 miles.

Then we have Fauldhouse a 5 minute walk to Armadale and Lochee the same to Downfield, while others are being hit for £4/500.

If things are being fair then why not levy all clubs £150, and subsidise all bus costs. 25k would go quite a way to relieving costs.

Or play R1 & R2 on a regional basis. I cannot see the romance of Lugars journey to Burghead, or Maud trip to Saltcoats. Would be interested to hear what is drawn at the gate. in these two ties.

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Not quite clear about this O.N. In all cases it is a single journey quoted, clearly they must return.

Whether you use the single journey bands or double them for the return it makes no odds - A to B < 25 miles is the same as A to B back to A < 50 miles

I cannot see the romance of Lugars journey to Burghead, or Maud trip to Saltcoats. Would be interested to hear what is drawn at the gate. in these two ties.

I always think of the 'romance' of the cup as plucky wee team beating odds-on big team which, of course, can happen anywhere. Trips outside the region are, in my experience, regarded as more of a welcome break from the norm

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Its strange how with age my attitude to away days have changed .

When I was between say 12 and 18 years of age my perfect away trip was away to the furthest junior club possible in the Scottish and a right good away day .

Nowadays I only see a 4/5 hour away tie as a chore and its a bit played out now having done it lots of times.

Sitting on a bus for 4 hours, arrive and have a pint or two and watch the game for the 90 minutes and then a couple after the game followed by another 4 hour trek home, I liked it to start with but not really anymore as its played out for me.

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Its strange how with age my attitude to away days have changed .

When I was between say 12 and 18 years of age my perfect away trip was away to the furthest junior club possible in the Scottish and a right good away day .

Nowadays I only see a 4/5 hour away tie as a chore and its a bit played out now having done it lots of times.

Sitting on a bus for 4 hours, arrive and have a pint or two and watch the game for the 90 minutes and then a couple after the game followed by another 4 hour trek home, I liked it to start with but not really anymore as its played out for me.

welcome to crabbit auld b*****d status.

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