jester Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Is that you have to remember which one you are fighting on. General Sir Richard Shirreff seems to think Scottish independence is a bad thing. His full letter is here:http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/in-full-general-sir-richard-shirreff-s-letter-1-3526265 where he says (among other things): "If you value Scotland’s safety and security now is emphatically not the time to weaken our united defence. What we can do together is more important than what we can do alone. As a lifelong professional soldier, I cannot stress enough that it would be an absolute tragedy to break up the one institution which exemplifies the strength of the Union, the British Armed Forces, particularly the British Army. I am in no doubt that Scottish defence and security is stronger as an integral part of a united UK, hence my resounding recommendation: ‘No Thanks’ to separation. We are definitely Better Together." Yet here is General Sir Richard in the Grunaid bemoaning the fact the UK armed forces are being systematically dismantled: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/30/british-army-cuts-risk-general-richard-shirreff "The sort of defence cuts we have seen. … have really hollowed out the British armed forces and I think that people need to sit up and recognise that" "A hollowed-out navy means you can't project power. I've heard this said in the Ministry of Defence: 'The yardstick by which we measure ourselves is our ability to punch above our weight'. You can't do that now. By that yardstick, therefore, we're failing" "He told the newspaper his biggest concern was the impact of cuts on the navy, which have left it without an operational aircraft carrier until 2020 and a fleet of just 19 frigates and destroyers." As a product of our staff colleges it's embarrassing that he should put his name to such an amateur press release like that. Most, if not all his arguments have already been blown out of the water, yet here he is regurgitating Better Togethers textbook porkies. Couple his comments about maintaining defence spending at the expense of schools and hospitals with Wee Ruthies comments about needing nukes to deter the Russians, and we can see that there are folk within government itching for another foreign adventure. Do they learn anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forza ton Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Always about wars with these people. I can't wait to see the back of all this militarism. The politicisation of the poppy at ibrox etc is disgusting and we need to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I've got a couple of these Navy types on my Facebook and although they're usually good guys, the amount of referendum pish they spout is unreal at times. I was very close to sticking them on ignore but came to the conclusion that their posts had some entertaining value. They're also the first to jump on the posts of any mutual friends who post anything remotely Yes, usually picking a fight with some person they don't even know in the comments section and filling it with about twenty posts, normally involving the words 'our boys' and 'you don't understand what actually goes on' at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I've got a couple of these Navy types on my Facebook and although they're usually good guys, the amount of referendum pish the spout is unreal at times. I was very close to sticking them on ignore but came to the conclusion that their posts had some entertaining value. They're also the first to jump on the posts of any mutual friends who post anything remotely Yes, usually picking a fight with some person they don't even know in the comments section and filling the comments section with about twenty posts. I have one acquaintance on Facebook who is constantly promoting Better Together material, the vast majority of which is easy to argue with and disprove. Around 2 months ago she told me she was not going to get into a debate on the subject and I should stop commenting on her posts. I ignored and have continued to argue and disprove, with absolutely no replies coming back from her. Last night she put up another piece of easily disprovable tripe, which I answered in a couple of sentences, and received the reply "You don't f*cking live here anymore, it's none of your business so stop replying". I think that means I win. I'm never going to convert her to a Yes, but it was fun to get that reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I have one acquaintance on Facebook who is constantly promoting Better Together material, the vast majority of which is easy to argue with and disprove. Around 2 months ago she told me she was not going to get into a debate on the subject and I should stop commenting on her posts. I ignored and have continued to argue and disprove, with absolutely no replies coming back from her. Last night she put up another piece of easily disprovable tripe, which I answered in a couple of sentences, and received the reply "You don't f*cking live here anymore, it's none of your business so stop replying". I think that means I win. I'm never going to convert her to a Yes, but it was fun to get that reaction. FOREIGN COUNTRY ALERT, i must despise you as you are not from a different country that is the same country to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 FOREIGN COUNTRY ALERT, i must despise you as you are not from a different country that is the same country to me I'm giving immigrants a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I have one acquaintance on Facebook who is constantly promoting Better Together material, the vast majority of which is easy to argue with and disprove. Around 2 months ago she told me she was not going to get into a debate on the subject and I should stop commenting on her posts. I ignored and have continued to argue and disprove, with absolutely no replies coming back from her. Last night she put up another piece of easily disprovable tripe, which I answered in a couple of sentences, and received the reply "You don't f*cking live here anymore, it's none of your business so stop replying". I think that means I win. I'm never going to convert her to a Yes, but it was fun to get that reaction. You might be converting others on her facebook, keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 You might be converting others on her facebook, keep it up. I plan to for exactly that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 You might be converting others on her facebook, keep it up. Exactly this. i have a few dafty pals who don't want to listen or hear another side but you never know who is also reading their feed and taking note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I have one acquaintance on Facebook who is constantly promoting Better Together material, the vast majority of which is easy to argue with and disprove. Around 2 months ago she told me she was not going to get into a debate on the subject and I should stop commenting on her posts. I ignored and have continued to argue and disprove, with absolutely no replies coming back from her. Last night she put up another piece of easily disprovable tripe, which I answered in a couple of sentences, and received the reply "You don't f*cking live here anymore, it's none of your business so stop replying". I think that means I win. I'm never going to convert her to a Yes, but it was fun to get that reaction. It's not about converting her. It's about stopping her spouting pish to everyone else. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Exactly this. i have a few dafty pals who don't want to listen or hear another side but you never know who is also reading their feed and taking note. It's not about converting her. It's about stopping her spouting pish to everyone else. Keep it up. I plan to. It was just a nice wee ego boost to see her throw the toys out the pram. She has been at it again today, going on about the army and navy disappearing and Scotland being wide open to attack from anyone, and how it will destroy her daughters chances in life when we're invaded. It's getting beyond ridiculous to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I plan to. It was just a nice wee ego boost to see her throw the toys out the pram. She has been at it again today, going on about the army and navy disappearing and Scotland being wide open to attack from anyone, and how it will destroy her daughters chances in life when we're invaded. It's getting beyond ridiculous to be honest. Have the rUK started threatening to invade already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 And back on topic.... In answer to the statement of the OP. The problem is that you can end up getting blindsided. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29045528 ETA: The BBC link above is basically the same report as Confi has posted below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 http://nato.einnews.com/article/221698572/l5xYZrtfWOX4t4mV Former Nato ambassador to vote Yes The recently retired UK ambassador to Nato has revealed she is voting Yes to Scottish independence and insisted the international alliance would welcome the new Scottish state. Dame Mariot Leslie has challenged the warnings of former Nato deputy supreme allied commander in Europe Sir Richard Shirreff, who described the SNP's defence policy as "dangerous" and "amateurish" at the weekend and said Scotland's future in Nato is "uncertain" if it leaves the UK and expels nuclear weapons from the Clyde. Dame Mariot, who was born in Edinburgh and retired as the UK's permanent representative to Nato earlier this year, said she draws "a different conclusion" from Sir Richard. "I am sure that it would be in Scotland's interest to join Nato and to continue to anchor our own defence in a wider alliance of Western democracies," she said in a letter to The Scotsman newspaper. "But I am also in no doubt that the other 28 Nato allies would see it in their interests to welcome an independent Scotland into Nato. "No ally would wish to interrupt the integrated Nato defence arrangements in the North Sea and North Atlantic - least of all at a time of heightened tension with Russia. "A democratic, non-nuclear Scotland with strong military and technological traditions would fit naturally alongside similar Nato members in Northern Europe, and would be likely to join them - and the UK - in looking for multinational solutions to the pressures on their defence budgets. "Comparisons with Ukraine and Georgia are out of place. There is no 'queuing order' for membership of Nato. Each candidature, and its timing, is considered separately on its own merits by the Nato council. I shall be voting Yes on September 18. "I am a democrat, and believe that the geography, economy, demography and politics of our country are so distinctive that they are best served by our own sovereign government. "I nonetheless have affection for the UK, am proud to have been a British diplomat for more than three decades, and have enjoyed working with our highly professional armed forces and security agencies. "Of course the closest and most important defence and security relationship for an independent Scotland would be with the United Kingdom. "It's clear that as Scotland made the transition to independence there would be some tough negotiations over defence, nuclear and wider security questions, because there is a lot at stake on both sides. "We are already witnessing some staking out of positions. "But nothing in my long experience of British or international security makes me think that either country need emerge as a less safe place when those negotiations were concluded." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The idea that NATO would say NO is just ridiculous. With warheads still on Scottish soil after independence, it's in no ones interest to exclude Scotland. We could start a new alliance with Russia if they keep us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 It's not about converting her. It's about stopping her spouting pish to everyone else. Keep it up. I got blocked by a guy I went to school with as he kept on putting up 'fish in a barrel' esque arguments which I kept on shooting down. He literally had no comeback or counter argument at all so he just deleted me Very much a No voter "just cuz!!" He wasn't for turning but if undecideds see you shooting down Unionist pish then it's worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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