parsforlife Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 To be drawn on Wednesday apparently, but surely that is unworkable? Can't exactly draw a seeded tournament when a tie is still to be played and that tie can affect those seedings. Appears the spfl have made an arse of thing. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 To be drawn on Wednesday apparently, but surely that is unworkable? Can't exactly draw a seeded tournament when a tie is still to be played and that tie can affect those seedings. Appears the spfl have made an arse of thing. Again. Rangers/Queens Park v Inverness will be seeded, quite obviously. It operates on the same basis that UEFA use for their early Qualifying round draws - assuming the seed will go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 If there is seeding, I don't see how they could possibly draw it before (what will end-up being) Rangers v Inverness is played. Although the same would apply if it was QP v Inverness. If they draw it before then, with "Rangers/Inverness" (or QP/Inverness) among the 8 seeds, then: [1] if Rangers beat Inverness, they'd get to play an unseeded team, even though they themselves should've been unseeded. Unfairly advantages Rangers. and [2] someone like e.g Ross County/St Mirren/Kilmarnock who should've been seeded would be unseeded, with a correspondingly harder tie, perhaps even Celtic away. Disadvantages them. Neither could they put "Rangers/Inverness" (or QP/Inverness) among the 8 non-seeds, as that'd put Inverness at a disadvantage if they did infact prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Rangers/Queens Park v Inverness will be seeded, quite obviously. It operates on the same basis that UEFA use for their early Qualifying round draws - assuming the seed will go through. THE Rangers at home in the next round would be PLEASING if the draw happens to be like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Rangers/Queens Park v Inverness will be seeded, quite obviously. It operates on the same basis that UEFA use for their early Qualifying round draws - assuming the seed will go through. I suspect you're making an ironic play, but actually to be serious for a moment... that's an established part of the UEFA system and applies to all clubs and all relevant rounds, season-after-season. This situation would be caused by Rangers not playing QP on the designated R1 date. Coupled with the SPFL holding the draw before a sole R2 tie had been completed. So I doubt they could cite UEFA's approach as an explanation. EDIT: Some people are asking the same question on SPFL's twitter, will be interesting to see what the actual situation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Rangers/Queens Park v Inverness will be seeded, quite obviously. It operates on the same basis that UEFA use for their early Qualifying round draws - assuming the seed will go through. But they shouldn't be running it like UEFA do(who draw more than 1 round at a time), no-reason to break from the norm and have the seeds calculated round by found. There is f**k-up here and it hopefully will be fixed, though given the spfl record its far more likely they won't admit it and stubbornly go ahead with it. It should be noted that this potential problem couldn't have occurred if they had dealt with the commonwealth games properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Here is part of the rules regarding this round, from SPFL's online rulebook dated 21st July 2014. As things stand it's logistically undrawable, AFAICS, as no-one knows all 8 highest placed clubs? http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthescottishprofessionalfootballleagueasat21july2014_1406798538.pdf p117 4.4. For the Third Round, the five Clubs which are participating in the UEFA Competitions, together with the eleven Clubs qualifying from the Second Round, will then be inserted into a ballot. This Round will be "seeded" with the Clubs occupying the eight highest placed Clubs in the League remaining in the Competition at the end of the preceding Season being "seeded". These Clubs will play a single tie on the ground of the first named Club. The eight winning Clubs will qualify to play in the Fourth Round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Whats the 3rd round dates anyway? What about inverness's game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 http://spfl.co.uk/league-cup/dates/ Still no date for the second round ICT game - http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/league-cup-preview/ Third roundTuesday 23 September, 2014Wednesday 24 September, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 So there is no reason to rush things then, which would be pretty obvious to everyone but the spfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 So there is no reason to rush things then, which would be pretty obvious to everyone but the spfl I'd prefer the draw tomorrow than potentially on Thursday 18th September(which is 5 days before the next round!). Having it earlier allows fans to make arrangements for time off work in the event of lengthy away ties. If it means that we have to do it as ICT/Queen's Park/Rangers as a seed, then I don't really see what the big deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gandosaur Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Why do Rangers keep getting to do whatever they please with cup fixtures anyway? That's their challenge cup game now been moved too. Bending over backwards for them and screwing up the competition for everyone else at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QPStu Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Why on earth does it need to be seeded anyway? What's wrong with an open draw? Total nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'd prefer the draw tomorrow than potentially on Thursday 18th September(which is 5 days before the next round!). Having it earlier allows fans to make arrangements for time off work in the event of lengthy away ties. If it means that we have to do it as ICT/Queen's Park/Rangers as a seed, then I don't really see what the big deal is. IMO - either it should be seeded or it shouldn't. No "fudges". Rangers are behind as their ground wasn't available. Yet they're now going to be advantaged, and another club potentially disadvantaged. SPFL postponed Clyde's league game... in order to play Rangers delayed Challenge Cup R2 tie... so why didn't they do the same to play this League Cup R1 tie? Or, why don't they do the same for the R2 tie? Why did they rubberstamp live TV coverage of 2 Rangers games (Sunday-Friday) such that a midweek went unused? Or, why didn't they just make them play 2 games in 3 days, which is afterall what they made Albion Rovers do in last season's Scottish Cup QF replay. They also seem to have postponed their Challenge Cup QF, even though Rangers have only had a single U21 called-up. Or, what about a fortnight tomorrow? If Rangers go on to beat Inverness and have an easy QF... and someone like Hibs or Ross County get a tough QF when they should've been seeded... there's a clear question about how the scenario was allowed to come about. There may be some cunning solution in tomorrow's draw which no-one has spotted. But I don't see what it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 There is precedent for this. It's happened before. When we had a League Cup tie postponed due to a waterlogged pitch (in August) against Albion Rovers a few years ago, the draw took place later that week anyway with ourselves seeded in it on the assumption we'd go through. In fact a week later we contrived to get ourselves knocked out by Albion Rovers who duly ended up seeded for the next round when they shouldn't have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 There is precedent for this. It's happened before. When we had a League Cup tie postponed due to a waterlogged pitch (in August) against Albion Rovers a few years ago, the draw took place later that week anyway with ourselves seeded in it on the assumption we'd go through. In fact a week later we contrived to get ourselves knocked out by Albion Rovers who duly ended up seeded for the next round when they shouldn't have been. Precedent of a f**k up is more reason to avoid doing it again, not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 There may be some cunning solution in tomorrow's draw which no-one has spotted. But I don't see what it could be. Two draws? But that would be stupid, even by Scottish football standards. Even drawing an unseeded "swap" team (that The Rangers or Queens Park swap fixtures with if they advance) wouldn't work (thankfully, because that would be a new low) because of the impact on the highest non-seeded club. It just can't be done without potentially seeding a team that should be unseeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Well if it's happened before - albeit those QotS-Albion circumstances were very close to the draw (and outwith anyone's control) - you would have thought that would make it more likely they'd have been aware of the looming problem and would have taken measures to address it!! As I say - there have been a number of opportunites to avoid this, which have gone begging, and AFAICS some opportunities still remain. It may seem a minor issue but there's the principle of Rangers (or anyone else) being treated as seed when they aren't one, and there's also the very real issue of the club who gets disadvantaged. It could be the difference between your route onward involving a home tie v an SPFL1 club - or alternatively an away tie at Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 So it would seem this'll be the situation, with Kilmarnock the club shafted into the Unseeded pot, unless there's some solution. SEEDED Celtic Motherwell Aberdeen Dundee Utd Inverness / Rangers* St Johnstone Ross County St Mirren UNSEEDED Kilmarnock* Partick Hibs Hearts Dundee Hamilton Falkirk or Cowdenbeath (ET playing) QotS or Livingston (ET playing) *in wrong section if Rangers beat Inverness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Please not St. Johnstone or Ross County away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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