DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I've put this post as a seperate post as I have not had a response to the question it poses. A lot has been said about austerity measures in various threads. I said in those threads that it could also be assumed that The Unfair Dismissal and Statement of Reasons for Dismissal (Variation of Qualifying Period) Order 2012 and other changes to employee rights have had an effect as well. The bit-by-bit removal/alteration of legislation has effectively made 3 million people have little or no protection from dismissal without reason. My step-daughter's partner was dismissed from his job without reason at the beginning of last week. Thankfully the boss had a heart and reinstated him. If he hadn't though the pair of them would have had a struggle - they'd only just moved into a 3 bedroom flat with her 30 weeks pregnant. Out of interest I went and checked what the White Paper said on employment rights legislation. Whilst there are commitments to restore the 90 day consulation period for redundancy for firms over 100 employees, and restoring employee shareholder status, there are no plans to repeal legislation that affects employees working in much smaller businesses. Instead the government confirmed in the white paper that existing UK laws would remain in place after independence but they would be “tailored to Scotland’s needs” - whatever that means. What worries me is that, given the centre-right economic policies of all of our political parties (including the SNP), much of this legislation against individual worker's rights will not be repealed. Why was there not a more fundamental commitment on individual worker's rights in the White Paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I've put this post as a seperate post as I have not had a response to the question it poses. A lot has been said about austerity measures in various threads. I said in those threads that it could also be assumed that The Unfair Dismissal and Statement of Reasons for Dismissal (Variation of Qualifying Period) Order 2012 and other changes to employee rights have had an effect as well. The bit-by-bit removal/alteration of legislation has effectively made 3 million people have little or no protection from dismissal without reason. My step-daughter's partner was dismissed from his job without reason at the beginning of last week. Thankfully the boss had a heart and reinstated him. If he hadn't though the pair of them would have had a struggle - they'd only just moved into a 3 bedroom flat with her 30 weeks pregnant. Out of interest I went and checked what the White Paper said on employment rights legislation. Whilst there are commitments to restore the 90 day consulation period for redundancy for firms over 100 employees, and restoring employee shareholder status, there are no plans to repeal legislation that affects employees working in much smaller businesses. Instead the government confirmed in the white paper that existing UK laws would remain in place after independence but they would be “tailored to Scotland’s needs” - whatever that means. What worries me is that, given the centre-right economic policies of all of our political parties (including the SNP), much of this legislation against individual worker's rights will not be repealed. Why was there not a more fundamental commitment on individual worker's rights in the White Paper? I'm going to go with not 'sexy' enough. You raise a valid point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I've put this post as a seperate post as I have not had a response to the question it poses. A lot has been said about austerity measures in various threads. I said in those threads that it could also be assumed that The Unfair Dismissal and Statement of Reasons for Dismissal (Variation of Qualifying Period) Order 2012 and other changes to employee rights have had an effect as well. The bit-by-bit removal/alteration of legislation has effectively made 3 million people have little or no protection from dismissal without reason. My step-daughter's partner was dismissed from his job without reason at the beginning of last week. Thankfully the boss had a heart and reinstated him. If he hadn't though the pair of them would have had a struggle - they'd only just moved into a 3 bedroom flat with her 30 weeks pregnant. Out of interest I went and checked what the White Paper said on employment rights legislation. Whilst there are commitments to restore the 90 day consulation period for redundancy for firms over 100 employees, and restoring employee shareholder status, there are no plans to repeal legislation that affects employees working in much smaller businesses. Instead the government confirmed in the white paper that existing UK laws would remain in place after independence but they would be “tailored to Scotland’s needs” - whatever that means. What worries me is that, given the centre-right economic policies of all of our political parties (including the SNP), much of this legislation against individual worker's rights will not be repealed. Why was there not a more fundamental commitment on individual worker's rights in the White Paper? I take your point - you've found something that's not really mentioned in the White Paper. My point would be simple: which of the 2 options on Sept 18th do you think is most likely to improve workers rights in Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tio Pepe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm going to go with not 'sexy' enough. You raise a valid point though.Because if they believe an independent Scotland would be in the EU then they won't really change.The potential risk is the period when Scotland would be in limbo and the SNP should spell this out if they wish to provide clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because if they believe an independent Scotland would be in the EU then they won't really change. The potential risk is the period when Scotland would be in limbo and the SNP should spell this out if they wish to provide clarity. I'm not focussing too much about the next 2 or 3 years - I'm voting on the basis of the next 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I take your point - you've found something that's not really mentioned in the White Paper. My point would be simple: which of the 2 options on Sept 18th do you think is most likely to improve workers rights in Scotland? Yeah, given the erosion of workers rights and zero hours contracts, I'm going to go with an iScotland every time. No brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 A commitment to improving workers rights is the kind of thing that could away me towards Yes. Getting treated poorly by employers is my second biggest fear after death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 A commitment to improving workers rights is the kind of thing that could away me towards Yes. Getting treated poorly by employers is my second biggest fear after death. You really have to vote Yes if that gives you the fear then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Maybe I will. Might be a laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 A commitment to improving workers rights is the kind of thing that could away me towards Yes. Getting treated poorly by employers is my second biggest fear after death. Don't worry, get yourself a zero hours contract and you will have all the leverage you need!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 So would the OP rather vote No and have a Conservative government slowly strip away employee rights, as they have done in this parliament and previous ones they have been elected to, or vote Yes and have some of those policies reversed? While I take the point that the White Paper could probably have gone further, staying within the Union can only be detrimental to employee rights, they are never going to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 So would the OP rather vote No and have a Conservative government slowly strip away employee rights, as they have done in this parliament and previous ones they have been elected to, or vote Yes and have some of those policies reversed? While I take the point that the White Paper could probably have gone further, staying within the Union can only be detrimental to employee rights, they are never going to get better. If Scotland is supposely more left wing why didn't they take it further? I know some on the right may have moaned but I think it would have been a vote winner amongst those who are in transient employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Your argument doesn't really hold up, and you've avoided answering my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAFC Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think it's disgusting that someone needs to work for a firm for two years before they can go for constructive dismissal. Speaking from personal experience I was treated unfairly from the start at a firm a few years back and felt under pressure to stay because if you leave then you won't get any benefits. So basically it's ok for any employer to do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing you can do about it. Increase probationary periods without consultation No rights to join a union Change terms in your contract without consent Add CCTV equipment without your consent Zero hours contracts Working crazy shift patterns Working in sweatshops like amazon Changing shift patterns Forced overtime All things I have experienced and had no protection or way of standing up to it. No wonder many don't want to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirez Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Only 4 weeks to go and some people cannot get that the SNP whitepaper is not the be all and end all of independence. There is some good stuff in there. But, we are voting to make sure we are in charge of any future decisions. Don't like what is in the whitepaper? Then vote for another party after the Yes vote in spring 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Only 4 weeks to go and some people cannot get that the SNP whitepaper is not the be all and end all of independence. There is some good stuff in there. But, we are voting to make sure we are in charge of any future decisions. Don't like what is in the whitepaper? Then vote for another party after the Yes vote in spring 2016! Beat me to it. I don' t get how people still struggle with the concept that a Yes vote isn't a vote for SNP and Alex Salmond; it's not a vote for any party or politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It's all very well to "vote yes then vote for another party" but chances are you'll be lumped with the SNP anyway. As it stands my vote is about as relevant in Scottish elections as it is in uk elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 As it stands my vote is about as relevant in Scottish elections as it is in uk elections. This is simply not true as the Scottish parliament is PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Way to completely miss my point. One guy in Edinburgh's vote makes virtually no difference in either election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 One guy in Edinburgh's vote makes virtually no difference in either election. Are you unfamiliar with the democratic process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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