Queen of the South vs Livingston

[19QOS19]

The board will be concerned we are out cup runs last two seasons difference between making a loss and breaking even or small profit.

If we get knocked out next week I'd agree, but the challenge cup is hardly a cash cow. Okay we may get one of the big 3, but in the same breath we could get Brora away from home. On a Tuesday night that might be an overnighter with a small crowd as compensation. For winning it we only get around £15/20,000 isn't it?

I really don't think the board will be too concerned about being out this cup. The average attendances for this cup will be far far lower than league and other cup games I'd guess.

Next week is a far more important game.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Very surprised by this result considering how solid youse looked at the back in all our encounters last season..did you play your strongest team?

Yes.

Kidding, we had Talbot and Donaldson missing at the back along with Mensing in CB.

[19QOS19]

Very surprised by this result considering how solid youse looked at the back in all our encounters last season..did you play your strongest team?

We were missing our regular RB and all 4 goals came from that area. 2 of the 4 were directly as a result of poor play from our stand in RB.

We also had 3/4 other first teamer's out today, so I'm not too concerned about today as I believe at least 2 goals would have been prevented had our regular RB featured. I don't want to say all 4 as I don't want to disrespect Livi :-)

[LIVIFOREVER]

A cup final is a cup final, they don't exactly come around very often for teams like ours. FWIW though, I can remember heading to the final against Partick and stating to my company that I really wasn't excited. Don't get me wrong I got into it such was the game, but in general I think it's a completely pointless competition. As I said, I'm happy we don't have to waste anymore time in this cup this year. The biggest disappointment from today was our performance, I'm far more concerned with that rather than the fact we are out!

Normally I'd be feeling the same but with Hibs, Hearts and The Rangers in it this season you're going to get decent gate money, glad we're through to the next round. Wouldn't mind going on a good cup run in this comp.

[distresseduke]

We were missing our regular RB and all 4 goals came from that area. 2 of the 4 were directly as a result of poor play from our stand in RB.

We also had 3/4 other first teamer's out today, so I'm not too concerned about today as I believe at least 2 goals would have been prevented had our regular RB featured. I don't want to say all 4 as I don't want to disrespect Livi :-)

Yes Mitchell is highly rated by you boys isn't he? Just never really done it with us apart from the fact his set piece delivery was excellent ..maybe his defending is better these days but he was a liability with us..what about that Carmichael boy he was awesome in the playoff at tfs

[19QOS19]

Normally I'd be feeling the same but with Hibs, Hearts and The Rangers in it this season you're going to get decent gate money, glad we're through to the next round. Wouldn't mind going on a good cup run in this comp.

Well one of the 3 will fall at the first stage so that reduces the chances of meeting one of them already. Looking at it, the chances of getting Hibs/Rangers or Hearts is roughly 13%. Today's average attendances (excluding the Hearts game) was 601. Ironically QoS had today's highest attendance with 1196. And looking through who's left, I couldn't see us being paired with any team on a Tuesday night that would go any higher than that TBH; Falkirk at a push. Today was the first game of the season and the average was 601, it's hardly drawing in the crowds is it? Those who like this cup could probably argue a few positives about it, but argue that it is good financially certainly isn't one of those things. **

Yes Mitchell is highly rated by you boys isn't he? Just never really done it with us apart from the fact his set piece delivery was excellent ..maybe his defending is better these days but he was a liability with us..what about that Carmichael boy he was awesome in the playoff at tfs

I don't "highly" rate Mitchell personally. He's definitely my first choice at RB and he does a decent job there. He is good at going forward but defensively he can be a bit suspect at times. I probably wouldn't go as far to say he is a liability, so I imagine his defensive side must be an improvement on what it was like at Falkirk. His deliveries can be superb at times, but there are games where his distribution can be pretty woeful as well; fanboy abuse heading my way! I hope Carmichael has a good season. Arguably his best game in a QoS jersey came that day up at TFS. He hadn't really featured last season, but hopefully he breaks back into the first team this season. Ironically, distribution is Carmichael's biggest let down. Too many floated crosses into the box that the GK will take all day with ease.

** I'm on nightshift and extremely bored, hence the stats!

[distresseduke]

Yes Danny Carmichael was excellent that day but if he could play like that every time he wouldn't be playing for queens (or falkirk) ..enjoyed the visit for the play offs great to have a bar in the ground that all supporters to go too honking pint though!

[Monkey Tennis]

Well one of the 3 will fall at the first stage so that reduces the chances of meeting one of them already. Looking at it, the chances of getting Hibs/Rangers or Hearts is roughly 13%. Today's average attendances (excluding the Hearts game) was 601. Ironically QoS had today's highest attendance with 1196. And looking through who's left, I couldn't see us being paired with any team on a Tuesday night that would go any higher than that TBH; Falkirk at a push. Today was the first game of the season and the average was 601, it's hardly drawing in the crowds is it? Those who like this cup could probably argue a few positives about it, but argue that it is good financially certainly isn't one of those things. **

I don't "highly" rate Mitchell personally. He's definitely my first choice at RB and he does a decent job there. He is good at going forward but defensively he can be a bit suspect at times. I probably wouldn't go as far to say he is a liability, so I imagine his defensive side must be an improvement on what it was like at Falkirk. His deliveries can be superb at times, but there are games where his distribution can be pretty woeful as well; fanboy abuse heading my way! I hope Carmichael has a good season. Arguably his best game in a QoS jersey came that day up at TFS. He hadn't really featured last season, but hopefully he breaks back into the first team this season. Ironically, distribution is Carmichael's biggest let down. Too many floated crosses into the box that the GK will take all day with ease.

** I'm on nightshift and extremely bored, hence the stats!

Contentious, but a good post.

This competition can be a pain, but reaching finals is fun and this season presented enhanced chances of a big game along the way.

I agree on Mitchell. He's a decent enough defender, but a big part of his worth relates to his delivery of dead balls. It's funny to read of Kidd as valuable going forward rather than as a defender, as he strikes me thus far as weaker than Mitchell in both respects.

I also totally agree on Carmichael. I'm a huge fan, but it's fair to say that his TFS display in May was not typical of last season's output.

[Sloop John B]

Contentious, but a good post.

This competition can be a pain, but reaching finals is fun and this season presented enhanced chances of a big game along the way.

I agree on Mitchell. He's a decent enough defender, but a big part of his worth relates to his delivery of dead balls. It's funny to read of Kidd as valuable going forward rather than as a defender, as he strikes me thus far as weaker than Mitchell in both respects.

I also totally agree on Carmichael. I'm a huge fan, but it's fair to say that his TFS display in May was not typical of last season's output.

I thought today Kidd pushed forward more than Mitchell usually does but he quite clearly is a midfielder however I've only ever seen Kidd play twice in competitive action so I can't properly compare.

Danny looked good again today. he looks a lot more confident than for the majority of last year. Maybe this is the year where everything comes into place...

[Skyline Drifter]

If we get knocked out next week I'd agree, but the challenge cup is hardly a cash cow. Okay we may get one of the big 3, but in the same breath we could get Brora away from home. On a Tuesday night that might be an overnighter with a small crowd as compensation. For winning it we only get around £15/20,000 isn't it?

I really don't think the board will be too concerned about being out this cup. The average attendances for this cup will be far far lower than league and other cup games I'd guess.

Next week is a far more important game.

You cant get Brora midweek. The only midweek date is the next round and its still regionalised.

This cup represents by far the best chance of a big gate from Rangers and has the additional opportunity of games against Hearts or Hibs too (though the draw means one of Hibs and Rangers will be out). So yes the Board will certainly be bothered about being out of it.

[Skyline Drifter]

Today was the first game of the season and the average was 601, it's hardly drawing in the crowds is it? Those who like this cup could probably argue a few positives about it, but argue that it is good financially certainly isn't one of those things.

Your stats conveniently ignore that Rangers didnt play today. Two years ago our winning run in it made us over £100,000 (mostly from the game at Ibrox of course). Even last season we made good income from them at home.

[overthetop]

Your stats conveniently ignore that Rangers didnt play today. Two years ago our winning run in it made us over £100,000 (mostly from the game at Ibrox of course). Even last season we made good income from them at home.

Exactly my point. we need good runs in the league and Scottish cups to compensate hand that to be honest is less likely so yesterday in many ways was a very poor result.

[orco]

Livi had 3 of last season's first picks missing yesterday through injury and suspension - Talbot, Mensing and Jacobs.

Re Danny Carmichael, I am always pleased when Queens don't use him against us. He has always done well any time I have watched him.

[19QOS19]

Your stats conveniently ignore that Rangers didnt play today. Two years ago our winning run in it made us over £100,000 (mostly from the game at Ibrox of course). Even last season we made good income from them at home.

Well yes of course I ignored them, for the same reason I ignored Hearts. The reason being that those 2 are the only worthwhile opponents left in the tournament and my point remains the same that it's a slim chance we will be drawn against them. The fact we made £100,000 last season doesn't argue against any of my points either. I don't think there is any denying we would make money if we were to be drawn against one of the big 3 but again, it's a slim chance it'll happen and with us playing them 4 times already this season I can't see the board having sleepless nights now that we are out.

[Distant Doonhamer]

McShane was excellent today but was running on empty when he came off. Remember he had surgery five weeks ago and missed the stamina part of pre-season work. He will need some time to get fully fit yet especially on such a hot day.

Defending today was catastrophic latterly. We ended up getting what we deserved but for an hour we were well on top despite being without Baird, Mitchell, Higgins, Kerr, McKenna, Burns, most of whom probably start if available. Not quite time to panic yet.

This.

[palmy_cammy]

I think it's a sad state of affairs, and probably shows how force-fed the cash cow English game is on us, that someone has taken the time to produce stats on why us losing a game is a good thing.

[Skyline Drifter]

Well yes of course I ignored them, for the same reason I ignored Hearts. The reason being that those 2 are the only worthwhile opponents left in the tournament and my point remains the same that it's a slim chance we will be drawn against them. The fact we made £100,000 last season doesn't argue against any of my points either. I don't think there is any denying we would make money if we were to be drawn against one of the big 3 but again, it's a slim chance it'll happen and with us playing them 4 times already this season I can't see the board having sleepless nights now that we are out.

Indeed, that reason being that it proves your argument to be largely nonsense!

Why is it a "slim chance"? Even if you consider all teams equal we had a 3 in 15 chance of drawing one of the three in the 1st round and although one of them will go out the odds would still have been 2 in 7 for the second round. All teams are not equal though. Of the other 28 clubs in the tournament only Falkirk finished above us last season and only them, Raith, Livi and Dunfermline are full time. We should be backing ourselves to progress far enough to meet one of the "big three". We got a tougher draw than we'd have wanted in that we got one of the three other full time sides in this division but we were still favourites and didn't lose to them at all last season in four games. We were also winning pretty deservedly before the roof fell in. If you don't think the Board will be disappointed with such an obvious potential revenue stream disappearing then frankly you are in cuckoo land.

Anyway, we're out and we'll need to get on with it. Good luck to Livi who never gave up yesterday and caused us no end of problems at times. Hippolyte looks like he might be this year's Phil Roberts. Lots of ability but a bit of a loose cannon. He did well though when he came on and so did Jordan White who proved a major handful for our back line. For me that was the biggest factor yesterday. Although we have a strong squad, with so many unavailable yesterday we weren't able to change things positively from the bench. When Livi made their subs they got stronger. We didn't unfortunately.

[LIVIFOREVER]

That was one of the biggest differences from last season that I noticed, we had lots of options from the bench, and that was with *Talbot, Mensing and Keaghan all out injured too. McGlynn has put together a much more balanced squad whereas we were lacking in certain areas last season and overloaded in others.

Still early but the signs look good that we'll hold our own in the league.

*Oh and Donaldson out with septicemia too.

[19QOS19]

Indeed, that reason being that it proves your argument to be largely nonsense!

Why is it a "slim chance"? Even if you consider all teams equal we had a 3 in 15 chance of drawing one of the three in the 1st round and although one of them will go out the odds would still have been 2 in 7 for the second round. All teams are not equal though. Of the other 28 clubs in the tournament only Falkirk finished above us last season and only them, Raith, Livi and Dunfermline are full time. We should be backing ourselves to progress far enough to meet one of the "big three". We got a tougher draw than we'd have wanted in that we got one of the three other full time sides in this division but we were still favourites and didn't lose to them at all last season in four games. We were also winning pretty deservedly before the roof fell in. If you don't think the Board will be disappointed with such an obvious potential revenue stream disappearing then frankly you are in cuckoo land.

Well no, the reason I omitted them from the attendances was because I'm not arguing that they would draw in a big crowd. My argument is that it's ONLY those 2/3 that would draw a big crowd. Of the rest of the teams left, do you really believe we would break 1000, if we only just managed to break that barrier in our first game of the season? Doubtful, blame it on holidays or weather if you like, but the fact is it fails to interest people.

I don't know exactly how much profit QoS would make if the attendance is 1000 or so, but I doubt we make thousands upon thousands. And as I say, we will be lucky to reach 1000 in any remaining fixture, excluding those 2 or the final, which is hardly a sure thing to happen.

For me the Elgin game is far more important; people are far more interested in the League Cup than the Waste of Space cup, and the chances of us getting a pay day fixture are dramatically increased.

I think it's a sad state of affairs, and probably shows how force-fed the cash cow English game is on us, that someone has taken the time to produce stats on why us losing a game is a good thing.

I said I was bored and on nightshift at the end of my post, which is why I went that far. Please continue with your tedious badmouthing if it makes you feel better though

[palmy_cammy]

Yes it's definitely my posts on this thread that are tedious.

Aside from SD proving your financial argument is a load of nonsense, you are missing the fairly key point that finances are generally a secondary concern to fans. We lost a game we were favourites to win, from two nil up, in a cup we have the best chance of getting far in. It's a disappointing result however you try and sugarcoat it.