HibeeJibee Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 In an article in today's paper I see Robbie Neilson comments that Hearts season begins in the Ramsdens Cup on Saturday 26th July, but they then have a blank Saturday on 2nd August due to League Cup R1. Presumably this means that the rather daft format of previous years is still in operation, whereby Hearts and Hibs enter in R2 yet Dundee and Hamilton enter in R1, and 4th in the Premiership get a bye to R3 despite not playing in Europe? If so, the seedings will presumably be: FIRST ROUND Seeded... Dundee, Hamilton, Falkirk, QotS, Dumbarton, Livingston, Raith, Alloa, Cowdenbeath, Morton, Rangers, Dunfermline, Stranraer, Ayr, Stenhousemuir Unseeded... Airdrie, Forfar, Brechin, East Fife, Arbroath, Peterhead, Annan, Stirling, Clyde, Berwick, Montrose, A£bion, East Stirlingshire, Elgin, Queen's Park SECOND ROUND Seeded... Inverness, Ross County, St Mirren, Kilmarnock, Partick, Hibs, Hearts, + 4 clubs from R1 Unseeded... + 11 clubs from R1 THIRD ROUND Seeded... Celtic, Motherwell, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Dundee United, + 3 clubs from R2 Unseeded... + 8 clubs from R2 Haven't spotted dates yet other than for R1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Seriously we're going with this format again? It can't see any justification for it, yet we keep using it year after year. Now I doubt this will happen when we're dealing with this stupid format but can we get rid of the byes to round 3, I just don't agree with teams coming into a tournament as late as the last 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm just putting 2+2 together going by Neilson's comment, I'm sure we'll know for certain soon enough. With there being so many CL/EL rounds nowadays it would be difficult to return to those clubs entering at the Last 32, and no doubt some clubs like Celtic or Aberdeen might oppose it anyway. But they should only bye CL/EL clubs into R3. And relegated clubs shouldn't enter later and promoted clubs earlier. That doesn't happen in the Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm just putting 2+2 together going by Neilson's comment, I'm sure we'll know for certain soon enough. With there being so many CL/EL rounds nowadays it would be difficult to return to those clubs entering at the Last 32, and no doubt some clubs like Celtic or Aberdeen might oppose it anyway. But they should only bye CL/EL clubs into R3. And relegated clubs shouldn't enter later and promoted clubs earlier. That doesn't happen in the Scottish. With neilson's comments I do expect to follow previous years which is stupid but everyone apart from the spfl board knows that.England cope with European sides entering in last 32, and they also have 2-leg semi's + clubs in Europe typically need to play an additional round in the FA cup , they also typically go much further into European competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 I know, but they do that by playing the 'extra' round in the League Cup on the midweek before Christmas... and frankly I can't imagine worse time to play a match, let alone a national cup QF, than the midweek before Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Unseeded... Airdrie, Forfar, Brechin, East Fife, Arbroath, Peterhead, Annan, Stirling, Clyde, Berwick, Montrose, A£bion, East Stirlingshire, Elgin, Queen's Park How classless of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Whens the draw done for round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Have they not used the same system for seeding since the changes in the early 80's ie you take the league placing of the season before for all rounds until the last 8 when its an open draw. With UEFA claiming so many early season dates, this has caused the need to put teams into the last 16 and killed off the chance of having the completion played before Christmas unless the games were all played on a Saturday. I can see where Parsforlife is coming from re sides starting in the last 16 but with the limit in free dates the last 32 would have to be played on a weekend early season and risk sides having yet another free weekend, however it would remove the seeding issues re the relegated and promoted sides from the Premiership/Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 A perfectly good domestic competition devalued by UEFA's role as the cash generator for the chosen few. A total disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Defending champions IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Tbh I'm not sure the UEFA hold too many dates argument is as big of barrier as made out, yes they do reserve quite a lot, but the dates are there if you want to use them. Midweek of 13/14 of August is free for example, ok so it's two rounds close together but that's not a barrier, it's just not ideal. Could swap the league cup and challenge cup first rounds to give a longer gap if you wanted. On an other note, and I said this on the challenge cup thread, you would presume these two cups will go to 7 subs, in line with the league and the Scottish cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Have they not used the same system for seeding since the changes in the early 80's ie you take the league placing of the season before for all rounds until the last 8 when its an open draw. With UEFA claiming so many early season dates, this has caused the need to put teams into the last 16 and killed off the chance of having the completion played before Christmas unless the games were all played on a Saturday. I can see where Parsforlife is coming from re sides starting in the last 16 but with the limit in free dates the last 32 would have to be played on a weekend early season and risk sides having yet another free weekend, however it would remove the seeding issues re the relegated and promoted sides from the Premiership/Championship. Seeding crept in gradually - you'd need a couple of pages of A4 to track the history of it in detail. It was only when we had 6 European slots a few years ago due to a Fair Play award, meaning a couple of SPL clubs had to enter in R1, that they starting seeding R1 for example. In 1999-00, the first season with European sides byed to the Last 16, there were only 40 League clubs so it wasn't a problem as the top 4 First Division teams also got byes. From 2000-01 with SPL's expansion, this became top 2... occasionally this varied if a lowly team (e.g. Gretna) qualified for Europe (e.g. SFL1 runner-up St Johnstone started in R1). In 2009-10 the Interoto slot became a EL slot and we got that Fair Play award - which meant 6 clubs in Europe, and 4 SPL clubs in R1. But this is where the nonsensical thing has crept it, since then. Since then they've byed 5 clubs into R3 - even when we've only had 4 clubs in Europe - and byed the relegated SPL club to R2, not the champion. As things stand there's no reason why it couldn't be arranged: * R1... (14 ties) lower-league clubs except Hearts & Hibs * R2... (12 ties) Premiership clubs not in Europe + Hearts & Hibs * R3... (8 ties) clubs in Europe And even when we return to 5 European slots it should be Hearts & Hibs playing in R1 and Dundee & Hamilton entering in R2, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri-TON Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I'd happily take a pop at Celtic again. Decent record against them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Naitch Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Just like their Challenge Cup game, Rangers have had their 1st round match for this postponed ''due to the Commonwealth Games''. Hadn't realised they had already been granted a home tie. In what must be a total coincidence they've just announced a friendly against Derby that weekend. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 Aye, have to say I don't quite follow that myself, why can't they fulfil the fixture if it's away to Morton/Stranraer/Ayr/whoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Just like their Challenge Cup game, Rangers have had their 1st round match for this postponed ''due to the Commonwealth Games''. Hadn't realised they had already been granted a home tie. In what must be a total coincidence they've just announced a friendly against Derby that weekend. Hmm. Farce, no reason they can't play an away game on the right day and even if they are drawn at home IMO they should find an alternative venue for the league cup, and forced to forfit for the challenge cup, it's their fault ibrox isn't available for the challenge cup and I don't agree with venue switches when its under circumstances within the clubs control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 Only (ridiculous) explanation I can think of is the police not wanting Rangers travelling fans on the roads/trains at the same time as Games travellers. Yet there will be numerous times that number of Celtic fans making the journey, on a weeknight during the Games, to Murrayfield for their CL qualifier(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Only (ridiculous) explanation I can think of is the police not wanting Rangers travelling fans on the roads/trains at the same time as Games travellers. Yet there will be numerous times that number of Celtic fans making the journey, on a weeknight during the Games, to Murrayfield for their CL qualifier(s). Yea it simply doesn't add up.Also, if they using the same midweeks for round 2 as they did last year then any postponements would force league games to be postponed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Naitch Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Haven't spotted dates yet other than for R1. Dates have now been released: http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/cup-dates-confirmed/ Still nothing about draw dates etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp9 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Dates have now been released: http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/cup-dates-confirmed/ Still nothing about draw dates etc It's a joke so close to the games and the draw not even done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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