Dee Till A Die Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Has it been confirmed that the winners of next season will enter a playoff match with the Highland League winners? Also how will it work if say Elgin were relegated and Spartans promoted. Do Elgin go in the Lowland or the Highland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilky1878 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Do Elgin go in the Lowland or the Highland? I've been wondering this as well, wouldn't be much point in a Northern team being in the lowland league or vice-versa but it could also cause really unbalanced leagues if say lowland league area teams kept getting relegated and northern promoted or vice-versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantaloon Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The "blazers" haven't worked that one out yet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Has it been confirmed that the winners of next season will enter a playoff match with the Highland League winners? Also how will it work if say Elgin were relegated and Spartans promoted. Do Elgin go in the Lowland or the Highland? At the end of the season there is a playoff (lets call it a Semi-Final) between the Highland and Lowland champions, with the winner going onto a further playoff (lets call it the Final) against the bottom side in SPFL2. If Spartans get promoted and Elgin relegated then clearly Elgin would go into the Highland League. For starters doing otherwise would clearly be barmy, but it's been clarified, to quote Stewart Regan in the Scotsman on 9th June 2013: One issue has been the destination of any club relegated from the SFL. But Regan said it would be determined by geography. “You shuffle the pack and define your boundary based on north/south. At the moment it’s the Tay, anything above that’s Highland and anything below is Lowland Whether that lasts in the longer-term, who knows. There are various different ways of doing it. Some countries have an arbitrary boundary as the Tay would be/others move the team nearest the boundary from one league to another (one problem currently is that with no Junior teams involved there's a gap between Cove in Aberdeen and Stirling). Some countries have fixed division sizes with teams relegated or reprieved to keep them the correct size/others let their division sizes fluctuate within certain limits. There seem to be pros and cons to each method. In practical terms, those sort of issues will only start happening after a couple of seasons of operation - more if the SPFL2 club win the playoff fairly regularly - plus right now the Lowland is still 2 clubs short of full complement and some in the Highland want 2 divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 There are 2 easy ways of doing it, Firstly you have feeder leagues below the HL & LL then you promote or relegate additional teams as required to balance the leagueie if a team is promoted out of your league and no one drops in you either promote an extra team or relegate one less, or if a team drops down into your league and no one goes up, you relegate an extra team (which creates an imbalace somewhere down the line but in a proper pryamid you could balance it with point 2) which is to move teams side ways to a different region. It could mean teams in the Tay to Forth belt moving Highland to Lowland each year to balance up leagues which is fairly common practice in many leagues where you have either national going to North / South or a region going to smaller sections (ie Midlands dropping to Midlands east and Midlands west etc). This sort of stuff is commonplace in leagues all over the world (except in Scottish Senior football) Im no expert but surely this must happen in the Juniors all the time ie teams from west superleague dropping into ADL / Central league etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 As I recall, the Juniors have always done it fairly ad hoc. In the West it's simple 4-up-4-down between the region-wide levels and the 2 district leagues, and they simply let the district leagues swell or shrink - with occasional extra promotions or relegations between the Central District's First Division and Second Division if the numbers become too imbalanced. In the East their new system is planned to be 2 regions of 16, with 2 districts of 16 below, but apparently a club will only be moved from one district to another if either district drops below 14 or above 18. Under their old 3 district system I think they just swelled or shrank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Till A Die Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Agree with a lot that's being said. In terms of other leagues being created to continue the pyramid system, how regional could they become and with such a small country do we really need more? Do lots of Junior teams want to become involved in this or are they comfortable where they are? I've been told by some friends who live in Ayrshire that teams like Irvine Meadow and Talbot have no intrest in leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I expect the EOS and SOS leagues will fall-in below the LL. But more generally I don't think it will be a case of "other leagues being created" or asking if we really "need more" - it should be a matter of accomodating the various existing leagues, with some tweaks along the way. For example the 3 Scottish Junior FA regions now comprise the vast majority of semi-professional clubs in the Non Professional Game, so it would only be natural for them to form the levels below the Highland and Lowland, with the EOS and SOS clubs being suitably accomodated as part of a merger. Similarly the various leagues of the Scottish Amateur FA comprise the vast majority of the remaining clubs, so it would only be natural for them to absorb the Welfarers who are now very small in number anyway. You would then have a natural grading comprising the Scottish League and its feeders; what used to be the Juniors; and what used to be the Amateurs. Link them up, voila, pyramid. It sounds simple on paper though but no doubt it would be much harder to realise in practice... Scottish football is by its nature a very conservative and very traditional beast, where people are defensive of the status quo. And in any rationalisation some people lose out somewhere, even if the majority benefit or do not feel any change, and these people and clubs naturally shout loudly and defend their interests. If some parts of the game decide they simply do not want to be formally involved - you cite the Juniors, which might be an example - then the remainder will have to make the best of it. In the south of the country you'd have the EOS and SOS leagues, and the Amateurs below them, but that doesn't give a suitable coverage of the whole territory. Perhaps a solution would be to form new Senior leagues in Strathclyde and in the Fife-Tayside area populated with interested Juniors and ambitious Amateurs. Everyone participating would be best, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The "blazers" haven't worked that one out yet.. They have. My information is that the Tay will be the dividing line. If Elgin come down and Spartans go up, a team will drop out of the Highland League to admit Elgin and one will be promoted in the south to replace Spartans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 They have. My information is that the Tay will be the dividing line. If Elgin come down and Spartans go up, a team will drop out of the Highland League to admit Elgin and one will be promoted in the south to replace Spartans. Where would the team dropping out of the Highland league go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 That hasn't been sorted out yet. They tried to set up a new two ten team division format a few months back, which would have helped to address that issue by making it possible to have more than 18 clubs but the membership rejected it. Failing that the North Caledonian League (which has traditionally been viewed as part of the senior grade because it is run by the North of Scotland FA) and the north region of the SJFA are the only credible feeder setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilky1878 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 What some people are missing here is that alot of junior teams want nothing to do with the senior Game, most junior clubs are better run than senior clubs and they don't want to progress, lose money and then be left in the shitter so just making junior leagues part of the pyramid was an idea but then got dismissed because no juniors really wanted to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I think that's a rather blunt and blanket assessment of the Junior stance but if so the Juniors can still stand aside and let the remaining parties get on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emfaefifeyahoorsur Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Interesting discussion regarding pyramid and promotion. If I can muddy the waters slightly. This was the topic of conversation in the board room of a senior club recently and the general consensus was that, in the present form, it is not going to happen . It was felt that there were too many unanswered questions and that the logistics hadn't been fully appreciated . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 This was the topic of conversation in the board room of a senior club recently and the general consensus was that, in the present form, it is not going to happen . It was felt that there were too many unanswered questions and that the logistics hadn't been fully appreciated . Are you talking about an SPFL club and promotion/relegation between the SPFL and the Highland & Lowland leagues? or a Senior non-league club and a broader pyramid? If the former, what questions are unanswered and what logistics hadn't been appreciated: we seem to know the playoff format, the boundary, the parachutes, that the Highland & Lowland leagues both have to be fully licenced, and that it goes live next summer? No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Till A Die Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I hope the promotion/relegation between the SPFL and Highland/Lowland goea ahead. Will be great! Look at the excitement the Premiership/championship playoffs has brought with it's introduction this year. Will change the whole way the League 2 teams think about finishing last. Instead of the old "well it doesn't really matter, we'll be in this league next season anyway". They will finally start to look over their shoulders. Plus it will give teams a good go at testing themselves in the SPfL. Im sure a number of teams from both leagues could challenge in League 2. What team/s would be a serious worry financially if they were to fall from the SPFL into one of the regional leagues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Interesting discussion regarding pyramid and promotion. If I can muddy the waters slightly. This was the topic of conversation in the board room of a senior club recently and the general consensus was that, in the present form, it is not going to happen . It was felt that there were too many unanswered questions and that the logistics hadn't been fully appreciated . Then I am sorry but if they think this, they are then deluded. It will happen and no matter how much they don't like it or its not what they thought they had agreed to, they have no choice. All the questions have been answered and if some "subsidy junkie" clubs fall by the wayside then so be it. Even if they have a history dating back to nineteen canteen. As HJ as said, everything is in place now for it to happen next year. What questions have been unanswered or what has not been logistically thought out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Then I am sorry but if they think this, they are then deluded. It will happen and no matter how much they don't like it or its not what they thought they had agreed to, they have no choice. All the questions have been answered and if some "subsidy junkie" clubs fall by the wayside then so be it. Even if they have a history dating back to nineteen canteen. As HJ as said, everything is in place now for it to happen next year. What questions have been unanswered or what has not been logistically thought out? Seems to me that what hasn't been thought out is sfl 2 teams asking themselves ' what if we go down? ' and not the actual thing happening. I feel they are still operating on the proviso that all will be ok and we'll continue to be in this league and get out payments and not have to improve- on the field of off it. Someone very soon is going to get the big wake up call and I for one can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Then I am sorry but if they think this, they are then deluded. All depends on the SPFL board rather than the wider SPFL membership. It's there in black and white in the new SPFL constitution that they have to approve the setup that the SFA come up with for identifying the club that will playoff against the 42nd placed club. As for unanswered questions the obvious one is that there are only 7 licensed clubs in the LL right now. Another one would be that it's not obvious how the HL would cope with an extra club if for the sake of argument Spartans beat Montrose in a playoff around 12 months from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of (t)reason Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Glad that you have e eventually got round to reading the SPFL rules. Do you seriously think that promotion from HL/ LL is going to be knocked back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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