The wonders of austerity

[H_B]

The SNP are a Centre Right party. It's a policy that makes perfect sense from that point of view.

Like their inequality increasing Corporation Tax cut, to benefit the wealthy.

[ayrmad]

Well, the fact that it beenfits the middle earners above those at the bottom still hurts it's "progressive" credentials.

Nah, rememebr this policy was from 2007, when a referendum wasn;t really on the agenda in any serious way. it was, and remains, simply a smart polciy that appeals to middle scotland, who are most likely to turn out and vote. Itls retention in 2011 seemed more about buying time to reform than anything else,although i do believe the lack of talk about reform since is a result of teh indy ref - it'll be a big, compex debate which won't be able to please everyone

I'm not suggesting they were doing anything other than following on from Labour in 2007, I do think after the 2011 election controlling spending would have came into their thoughts though, you just have to look at the behaviour of some councils to see that anything was possible to throw a spanner into the works..

[banterman86]

I'm not suggesting they were doing anything other than following on from Labour in 2007, I do think after the 2011 election controlling spending would have came into their thoughts though, you just have to look at the behaviour of some councils to see that anything was possible to throw a spanner into the works..

i don't think Labour offered a national freeze in '07 - although obviously the polciy first came from Glasgow in 2006 ( i think) The difference some would argue is that GCC were in a postion to cost it's affordabilty then, rather than now were it;s essentially dictated to them through the financial settlement.

[banterman86]

I agree with that last sentence. It IS a freeze on councils.

I however am one of those who believes that the way to handle gross mangerial incompetence and financial mismanagement isn't to throw more money at them.

All councils are poorly managed financially. There are savings to be made absolutely everywhere.

Reform is more productive than increasing taxes.

It absolutely cannot be right that we take nearly half of what most people earn and we are STILL struggling to pay for everything.

It is in an interesting position - you support greater (indeed full) fiscal responsibilty for Holyrood but don;t want to devolve that power down further. If the decision made for scotland are best made by the people who live and work here (to quote the FM) why aren't the deicison made for Glasgow best made by the people who live and work there? it;s the same principle after all.

There are of course, savings to be made in almost every public sector organisation, and council are having to make those savings due to the double whammy of reduced funding and the freeze.

I agree we need reform. i would happily see some moderate high band increases and low band cuts in the interim though, if it could eb shown to be affordable and make a tangiable difference to peoples pockets and the Councils themselves.

[H_B]

It is in an interesting position - you support greater (indeed full) fiscal responsibilty for Holyrood but don;t want to devolve that power down further. If the decision made for scotland are best made by the people who live and work here (to quote the FM) why aren't the deicison made for Glasgow best made by the people who live and work there? it;s the same principle after all.

Because Edinburgh Knows Best.

You've forgotten the golden rules.

Decision making below Edinburgh - bad.

Decision making in Edinburgh - good.

Decision making in London - bad.

Decision making in Brussels - good.

[Ad Lib]

I agree with that last sentence. It IS a freeze on councils.

I however am one of those who believes that the way to handle gross mangerial incompetence and financial mismanagement isn't to throw more money at them.

All councils are poorly managed financially. There are savings to be made absolutely everywhere.

Reform is more productive than increasing taxes.

It absolutely cannot be right that we take nearly half of what most people earn and we are STILL struggling to pay for everything.

Councils might be more accountable for how they spend their money if you make them responsible for actually raising most of it.

[banterman86]

Hang on don't put words in my mouth.

Why not just ask me to clarify?

I'm advocating reform as a first and necessary step to control of finances.

It's a stepwise thing.

That is entirely consistent with supporting devolution as a first step to full independence.

Apologies, that's how i read it.

So to clarify you do supporsupport councils having control over their tax raising powers? and what reform would you like to see?

[banterman86]

Councils might be more accountable for how they spend their money if you make them responsible for actually raising most of it.

Not sure how feasible that is - the majortiy, or at least a fair chunk, of council revenue comes from a block grant from Holyrood - how do you change that?

[Ad Lib]

Not sure how feasible that is - the majortiy, or at least a fair chunk, of council revenue comes from a block grant from Holyrood - how do you change that?

There are plenty ways you could do it. Local income taxes replacing council tax and part of the national rate. Some sort of mechanism for allocating VAT receipts. Control of land taxation, domestic fuel taxes etc. In reality you're still going to need a block grant of some description, but local taxation at the moment accounts for only 19% of, for instance, GCC's budget. There has to be a way to build more control into that system.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Best to answer you both in one place.

Councils already have tax raising powers through the council tax.

I wouldn't support further tax raising powers at that level unless someone can persuade me how we avoid the postcode lottery for services and the certain escalation of house prices (which are already catastrophically high) which would result.

As for reform? In every business and council in the country, there is financial wastage. It's a consequence of spending other people's money.

In order to reverse this you need management to incentivise staff to make cost reductions in specific areas.

An obvious example would be where they buy tea, coffee, printer paper etc. Don't just TELL staff to cut back because they'll ignore it. Offer them a bonus based on achieving certain cost savings. This is just basic stuff. The idea is sound and can be replicated throughout the services.

I still don't understand why all the councils don't go to all the suppliers out there and bargain collectively for the best price.

The reform I'm talking about is the principle of looking after the pennies and allowing the pounds to build up from there.

Do councils seriously need to send out paper with coloured ink on the paper? On a country-wide scale these small costs add up hugely.

They actually do get pretty good prices for purchasing already. I've checked the business prices for the likes of Lyreco and Spectrum and they are significantly more than our council pays.

Where there is real wastage is the amount of glossy bumf produced via private printers - stuff that is usually filed in the bin. Or "resources" produced that either sit on a shelf or are not fit for purpose.

There are also economies to be made with simple measures - a suite of computers which goes to a blank screensaver on a reduced timer can save almost £1000 a year - doesn't sound a lot but soon mounts up once aggregated across council departments. Energy saving measures alone could cut a substantial amount off council expenditure.

[banterman86]

Best to answer you both in one place.

Councils already have tax raising powers through the council tax.

I wouldn't support further tax raising powers at that level unless someone can persuade me how we avoid the postcode lottery for services and the certain escalation of house prices (which are already catastrophically high) which would result.

As for reform? In every business and council in the country, there is financial wastage. It's a consequence of spending other people's money.

In order to reverse this you need management to incentivise staff to make cost reductions in specific areas.

An obvious example would be where they buy tea, coffee, printer paper etc. Don't just TELL staff to cut back because they'll ignore it. Offer them a bonus based on achieving certain cost savings. This is just basic stuff. The idea is sound and can be replicated throughout the services.

I still don't understand why all the councils don't go to all the suppliers out there and bargain collectively for the best price.

The reform I'm talking about is the principle of looking after the pennies and allowing the pounds to build up from there.

Do councils seriously need to send out paper with coloured ink on the paper? On a country-wide scale these small costs add up hugely.

Yes, but their council tax power has effectively been neutered for the best part of a decade - what happnes when the freeze ends? Do we continue to use the presnet system of reform it?

I'm sympathetic to this "look after the pennies" argument but in reality some of these councils are operating with huge debts, coloured ink, tea and coffee only goes so far.

[banterman86]

The point is that if they are slack with cash when it comes to tea and coffee it's hardly going to inspire confidence that they are handling the big ticket stuff properly. Don't downplay the significance of the accumulative effect of vast numbers of small financial costs across all of the councils.

If you look at most people's bank accounts who claim to be struggling financially you'll have difficulty seeing big purchases. What you'll see is a quarter of their income being frittered away on small things. In other words, it's not buying cars or Spanish holidays which gets people into trouble. It's boring small stuff like the endless takeaways, nights out on the town, cinema trips and unnecessary petrol wastage. Councils are no different from this really.

I appreciate I'm using examples here but the point is very valid. Financial discipline is easy for big items but is extremely difficult for smaller stuff.

You're making two contradictory points here - not inspiring confidence in the big ticket stuff, whilst saying the big ticket stuff is ok in the same post,

Of course it adds up. I;m not convinced it adds up anywhere near enough to service the debts of Councils, or indeed to meet the challenges of delivering public services.

We're moving off the point though, this isn't about council wastage (a decent point though it is) but the council tax system, the freeze and potential reform - what would you do with it?

[banterman86]

.

As for council tax, I covered this earlier. I'd freeze it until reform happened. To get the reforms I'd set specific non-core cost cutting targets and financially incentivise the staff to meet them.

I'm sorry i don't udnerstand - we're talking about how to change the way council tax is valued and collected,with mooted ideas previously being things like the SNPs Local income Tax or the Greens Land value tax. How would cost cutting in individual councils drive these reforms?

[MarkoRaj]

http://longtermplan.org.uk/

[Confidemus]

More examples of the wonderful progressive advances made by Ian Duncan Smith:

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11271394.Man_living_on_flour_and_water_and_woman_forced_to_stop_chemotherapy_____battle_residents_face_revealed_at_poverty_summit/?ref=var_0

Man living on flour and water and woman forced to stop chemotherapy – battle residents face revealed at poverty summit

CONTROVERSIAL changes to the welfare system are forcing vulnerable people in Bournemouth and Poole to make life-changing decisions, a poverty summit has heard.

Richard Bristow, the manager of Poole Citizens’ Advice Bureau, cited a case where a man with learning disabilities was living on a paste made from flour and water after his benefits were suspended and another where a woman with breast cancer was forced to stop chemotherapy because she was assessed as ineligible for benefits.

He told the audience at Bournemouth University that CAB staff regularly saw Bournemouth and Poole residents who were facing an endless battle to make ends meet.

He said: “Some aspects (of the benefit system) appear to penalise anybody who requires help from the state.

“The bedroom tax in particular is having an insidious impact, especially when there’s no accommodation people can move into.

“The welfare state is meant to offer a safety net but the holes appear to have got a lot bigger in recent years.

“When it’s acknowledged that some people will never work because of health problems, I feel they should be treated differently and allowed to have a decent standard of living.”

Mr Bristow was a keynote speaker at ‘Local Poverty – Reality and Response,’ a Bournemouth University Festival of Learning event. He told the audience that Bournemouth and Poole CABs deal with around 25,000 problems each year.

He said there were officially 4,350 children in poverty in Poole, 5,625 in Bournemouth and that last year, more than 14,000 people turned to one of the area’s main food banks for assistance.

“Food banks have become an essential part of the safety net for local people in recent months,” he said. “Without them many people would go hungry.”

And I wonder who the first Britnat will be to say "But.... but... but... this is in England"...?

Things like this are happening in Scotland day in and day out. We can't change England, but we can change what we do here. To quote Nelson Mandela:

“Overcoming poverty is not a task of charity, it is an act of justice. Like Slavery and Apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. Sometimes it falls on a generation to be great. YOU can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom.”

ETA:

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/food-bank-is-expanding-as-hunger-bites-169073n.24604861

Food bank is expanding as hunger bites

PEOPLE visiting a north Glasgow food bank are so desperate they are pulling off lids and eating with their fingers in the centre.

But organisers of the Maryhill Food Bank are determined not to let people go hungry.

They are feeding around 140 people each week - last week they fed 49 children in less than two hours. Co-founder Julie Webster said: "I have worked in social work for 20 years, so I am pretty hardened but we had a family come in on a Tuesday at 3pm having not eaten since the ­previous Friday.

"There had been a problem with benefits and because it was a Bank Holiday weekend the mum had no money for food for her or her two children.

"I watched the mum pick up and put down can after can, wondering what she doing, before I realised she was looking for one with a ring pull.

"She ripped the top off and starting eating the beans with her hands, she was so hungry. At that point I had to go to the toilets and have a cry."

Julie set up the food bank 18 months ago with Deacon Jim Hamilton of Maryhill Parish Church.

It is based on a supermarket model where people are allowed to choose their own shopping from shelves of food.

The service now covers one third of the north of Glasgow with people walking from as far as Shettleston and Barlornock for aid.

Now the group is set to expand its services, thanks to a £5000 funding boost from the Celtic FC Foundation.

Celtic, along with Rangers, Partick Thistle, Glasgow Tigers, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde and Glasgow Housing Association are all backing the Evening Times food bank campaign to raise awareness and improve access to life-line services.

The groups and organisations are united in their bid to make sure people in Glasgow don't go hungry.

Currently Maryhill Food Bank moves to ­different areas of the community but can now afford rent on a head ­office and storage centre.

Julie added: "We can't thank the Celtic FC Foundation enough for its help. This means our rent is paid for one year.

"People need our help - they are unable to support themselves and unable to buy food."

Tony Hamilton, CEO Celtic FC Foundation, said: "The board of Trustees made a decision to support Maryhill Foodbank in addition to the significant support we had given the Trussell Trust.

"I know the people at Maryhill provide an invaluable service to local residents across the north of Glasgow and it is important that when we can help and add value, we do so."

[I'm Brian]

When you see stories like this, what worries me the most is that they haven't even scratched the surface of the deficit, never mind the debt. It really is going to get a whole lot worse before, indeed even if, the UK returns to a reasonable economic position.

We have a government that is failing miserably and the only alternative waiting in the wings committing to carrying on policies that are not working. But hey we are better together.

[ayrmad]

When you see stories like this, what worries me the most is that they haven't even scratched the surface of the deficit, never mind the debt. It really is going to get a whole lot worse before, indeed even if, the UK returns to a reasonable economic position.

We have a government that is failing miserably and the only alternative waiting in the wings committing to carrying on policies that are not working. But hey we are better together.

No thanks

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Can anyone remind me why the Scottish Government dragged their heels to do anything about the effects of the bedroom tax?

This is probably why I am cynical in the extreme - and that goes for both sides. Labour have hardly covered themselves in glory either.

I find the whole debate frustrating - that people can say with absolute certainty either way what is going to happen - the truth is no-one really knows. We get statement after statement presented as fact when at best it is an educated guess or worst idle speculation. Some of the more fanciful scenarios seem to be reliant on politicians changing character completely or being honest. The choice appears to be between jam tomorrow and a land of milk and honey - the only real fact is that we have one set of liars offering something as an alternative to another set of liars.

[Baxter Parp]

Can anyone remind me why the Scottish Government dragged their heels to do anything about the effects of the bedroom tax?

Who says they did?

[EdgarusQPFC]

But hey we are better together.

"Stay with one of the biggest economy's in the world"- The better together advert.

They neglect to mention it's a failing and unfair economy that only serves to drain the poor to pay for the mistakes of the rich to ensure they don't have to lower their standard of living, I mean Heaven forbid that they took responsibility for their mistakes. Stuff like this is exactly what is swaying my vote towards yes. I feel no anger for people on benefits, I don't think I'm better than them for having a job, but I know several people who all buy into that "scrounger" bullshit.