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East/West Combined Super League


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When the regions were set up the East region supported Linlithgow Rose's proposal for a National Super League but were defeated at the AGM held at Dalkeith because the North Region were allowed by Mr Johnston to make their own arrangements and were also allowed to vote on the issue. Mr Johnston then opposed to a National League

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Talbot,Medda,Cumnock,Beith,Buffs,Kilbirnie...now Hurlford,Troon..Ayrshire never needed the Central clubs,never needed a west super league.Games against these teams will bring in more finance bring more punters into the park than Cumbernauld,Petershill,Bellshill,Maryhill or Harry Hill and will be even less for Blackburn,Arniston or whoever no disrespect to any of them.Junior fitba exists because of community involvement from committee men to sponsors.

To me there is no point in all this without the North clubs,it doesn't make sense,it's just another regional set up not national.Would much prefer the lowland league scenario if a had to choose one...and a don't trust Tom Johnston to run a bath.

If in a perfect world where junior teams all had floodlights and we could have midweek east/ west league games with kick offs at 1945 which would eliminate the rush to get there then it would be a good idea for me.

As it stands I wouldn't like to have to scramble straight from work to Bonnyrigg for example on a Wednesday night for a 1830 kick off and the players would probably struggle too albeit most of our players are Glasgow / Renfrewshire based.

The problem for beith and kilbirnie could come clash if we opted not to try and join the amalgamation and the Talbots, meadows, cumnocks, hurlfords , glenafton etc did and effectively we would be left playing in a league not unlike the old Ayrshire 2nd division.

The problem I do see with a west /east combined league Is that it would take the shine off the Scottish cup if teams were drawn together in it just like the Ayrshire/ central amalgamation has took the wow factor out the west of Scotland cup as beith v petershill , kilbirnie v pollok etc has been done to death in the league in the last few seasons so its no longer new if these teams are drawn together in the west cup .

After a few years of a west / east league combined would talbot v Linlithgow in the Scottish cup have the same wow factor that it has at the moment?

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After a few years of a west / east league combined would talbot v Linlithgow in the Scottish cup have the same wow factor that it has at the moment?

How often does this actually happen? Should the best in these 2 parts of the country - not necessarily these 2 clubs be kept apart just to retain the allure of a competition which is so valued that most clubs lose money participating in it?

If clubs in Ayrshire are aligned to the majority of what is on here then this league will go no further. That doesn't bother me at all as I think my club should be among the first to break the line and join the Lowland League where facilities for players and spectators are developing and where there is a greater likelhood of securing the finance that is needed to keep a club progressing.

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taking the top 6 right now the longest journey would be 86 miles from Talbot to Newtongrange

80 miles from Talbot to Kelty

Both trips are 1hr.30mins

its not travelling to ends of the earth and back

And it's 84 miles between Nitten and Carnoustie which we have to travel in the present set-up. With no disrespect at all to the Angus side, without any doubt we would expect a much bigger crowd and greater interest from potential match sponsors for home games against top sides from the West of Scotland than we get from several fixtures in the current Superleague as it stands (or indeed would expect for most of the opposition in the Lowland League at present).

I completely understand a reluctance from the West Clubs though, as they don't have quite as much travelling to do currently so that will inevitably prove a major stumbling block. We'll be represented on Thursday night anyway and look forward to hearing the thoughts of other clubs there.

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A combined Super League running parallel to the Lowland League acting as a fifth tier could potentially be alright. Knock out play offs between the LL/HL/Junior winners and bottom of League Two to go up.

What right do the juniors have to expect their own entry to the SPFL?

Those teams who want to take part in the pyramid should join the LL or HL and the remaining junior teams should then decide upon the best way to arrange their leagues.

There needs to be a proper discussion on the requirements to join the pyramid and then to find out whether there is any interest from the juniors before any decisions on reconstruction are made.

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If in a perfect world where junior teams all had floodlights and we could have midweek east/ west league games with kick offs at 1945 which would eliminate the rush to get there then it would be a good idea for me.

As it stands I wouldn't like to have to scramble straight from work to Bonnyrigg for example on a Wednesday night for a 1830 kick off and the players would probably struggle too albeit most of our players are Glasgow / Renfrewshire based.

The problem for beith and kilbirnie could come clash if we opted not to try and join the amalgamation and the Talbots, meadows, cumnocks, hurlfords , glenafton etc did and effectively we would be left playing in a league not unlike the old Ayrshire 2nd division.

The problem I do see with a west /east combined league Is that it would take the shine off the Scottish cup if teams were drawn together in it just like the Ayrshire/ central amalgamation has took the wow factor out the west of Scotland cup as beith v petershill , kilbirnie v pollok etc has been done to death in the league in the last few seasons so its no longer new if these teams are drawn together in the west cup .

After a few years of a west / east league combined would talbot v Linlithgow in the Scottish cup have the same wow factor that it has at the moment?

Ask the punters that pay at Bellsdale or especially the ones that travel away,Ladeside did ..and they said no.

There is no much difference between Shotts and Blackburn but majority of fans don't want to go to Shotts anyway they would rather go to Buffs or Medda.Never go against the customers wishes,custodians,committee come and go fans are forever.Ask the Beith fans and if they say yes to a superduper league then...

Personally if it is not a national set up then it means sod all and am no interested in any elite junior shite,apart from Pollok,Clydebank,Arthurlie the majority of Central clubs have enhanced the West leagues not one iota.Ladeside will get more punters through the gate for games against Dalry or Largs than Cumbernod or Lanark,aye you have to watch your club is not left behind but you also have to watch that you still have a club.

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Ask the punters that pay at Bellsdale or especially the ones that travel away,Ladeside did ..and they said no.

There is no much difference between Shotts and Blackburn but majority of fans don't want to go to Shotts anyway they would rather go to Buffs or Medda.Never go against the customers wishes,custodians,committee come and go fans are forever.Ask the Beith fans and if they say yes to a superduper league then...

Personally if it is not a national set up then it means sod all and am no interested in any elite junior shite,apart from Pollok,Clydebank,Arthurlie the majority of Central clubs have enhanced the West leagues not one iota.Ladeside will get more punters through the gate for games against Dalry or Largs than Cumbernod or Lanark,aye you have to watch your club is not left behind but you also have to watch that you still have a club.

Like to think my own club have contributed a bit to the current set up. Six years in the top flight is decent going. Mind you never be the mighty Pollok arthurlie or bankies ha.

Travelling wise my own team are lucky in the sense we are geographically in a good position to travel east or west. Can understand why ayrshire teams have reservations but in my opinion anyway return to the old district leagues for them would also be a backward step.

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Ask the punters that pay at Bellsdale or especially the ones that travel away,Ladeside did ..and they said no.

There is no much difference between Shotts and Blackburn but majority of fans don't want to go to Shotts anyway they would rather go to Buffs or Medda.Never go against the customers wishes,custodians,committee come and go fans are forever.Ask the Beith fans and if they say yes to a superduper league then...

Personally if it is not a national set up then it means sod all and am no interested in any elite junior shite,apart from Pollok,Clydebank,Arthurlie the majority of Central clubs have enhanced the West leagues not one iota.Ladeside will get more punters through the gate for games against Dalry or Largs than Cumbernod or Lanark,aye you have to watch your club is not left behind but you also have to watch that you still have a club.

Of course the fans thoughts are vital regarding any re-construction but arguably the biggest / staunchest / diehard fans of any club are the committee guys so their opinions are valued too.

Remember speaking to lots of friends and fellow fans when the Ayrshire/ central teams combined to make the super leagues and lots said that they " wouldn't be back " , " we only want Ayrshire football " etc.

The same guys still follow their team regardless to this day and the core element of fans at junior clubs are there to support their team regardless of what setup / league that they're in.

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I doubt another division will be accepted at level 5 that geographically overlaps with the existing LL.

There is no chance of a Junior Super League, which is Lowland League in another name, being accepted by the SFA to run in parallel with what is already there. It won't be accepted because of the requirement for licensing criteria to be met.

This proposal can only bring together the best of the best in the Juniors - assuming it goes forward. It will never be accepted as an equal to the LL.

The talk of other pyramid models is also redundant for the next 5 - 10 years. There will be zero appetite for further tinkering and there is no chance that SPFL clubs will vote themselves into a regional model.

What is certain is that the structure has to change.

It would be a bit weird to have a combined Junior league running parallel to the Lowland League whilst covering the exact same geographical area. Would relegated teams be able to choose where they went?

What right do the juniors have to expect their own entry to the SPFL?

Those teams who want to take part in the pyramid should join the LL or HL and the remaining junior teams should then decide upon the best way to arrange their leagues.

There needs to be a proper discussion on the requirements to join the pyramid and then to find out whether there is any interest from the juniors before any decisions on reconstruction are made.

I hadn't given details any thought but it's obvious that most of the biggest "non-league" (ie below SPFL4) are in the Juniors. It's also obvious that the Juniors, in general, don't want to join the LL or HL. This could be for a number of reasons (history/tradition, wanting to keep the Junior Scottish Cup, derby games). IMO it's similar to the LL not currently being perfect - just get them into the pyramid and then look at next steps from there.

I don't think putting a Junior Superleague parallel to the LL and HL as tier 5 will ever happen, but the SPFL need to stop kidding on the pyramid isn't significantly weaker for not having Junior clubs in it.

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Even if you need to start at the bottom of the EoS setup to get there? By August the LL might have its full complement of sixteen clubs leaving no vacancies to fill by application. Think people should try to move beyond last year's set of stock arguments.

I'd be happy to move beyond last year's arguments but the position is as it is. You can see from this thread alone that Ayrshire is going to veto any move to a more joined up junior structure. Fear will win the day. So clubs like mine need to decide whether the status quo is going to give them a platform to continue to build going forward. If not, what next? Particularly if pressure is applied on the licence front.

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I'd be happy to move beyond last year's arguments but the position is as it is. You can see from this thread alone that Ayrshire is going to veto any move to a more joined up junior structure. Fear will win the day. So clubs like mine need to decide whether the status quo is going to give them a platform to continue to build going forward. If not, what next? Particularly if pressure is applied on the licence front.

It's got nothing to do with fear, just opinions based on knowledge and experience of the junior game.

The negatives easily outweigh the benefits.

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Is this meeting of clubs based on the ridiculous criteria that was sent out to clubs a while back, where things like who your rivals were and how big of club you were perceived to be were seen as legitimate reasons to accept, or deny a teams entry to the superduper league?

Regardless of that I don think this is a good idea, nor if it goes ahead should it be placed anywhere in the pyramid, it just doesn't make sense to have two leagues of equal status covering the same area, nor is it right for the juniors to turn up late and still be at the front of the queue.

The best thing IMO is for the regions to go off and get negotiating with their respective senior leagues(seriously why is this difficult how can we have gone this long without talks?). North region to become HL feeder, east to merge with EoS and be LL feeder, same with the west and SoS league.

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Without the juniors there is no pyramid, only a slightly rejigged senior grade, and I'll point people again to what happened in England with the Isthmian and Southern Leagues as feeders to the Conference back in the 1980s. They overlapped geographically initially and historically had been parts of seperate amateur and semi-professional grades. But that's for down the road and wouldn't happen immediately, if at all.

Can understand why people in Ayrshire are skeptical, but what people in the east will need to sell to make this fly is that most of the strongest east clubs are at the end of the region that is closest to the west in towns that are very close to motorways and dual-carriageways.

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Just done my sums and according to Google maps it's like this.

Given we would be looking at a top six from both East and West. Currently Meadow would travel 516 miles to & from all their away games. In the new set up that would increase to 940. Which is 424 miles more.

Talbot - 539 miles at present, 938 in new league 399 more.

Hurlford - 422 miles at present, 966 in new league, 544 more

Petershill - 599 miles at present, 836 in new league, 237 more.

Beith - 499 miles at present, 998 in new league. 499 more.

Troon - 550 miles at present, 1120 in new league. 570 more.

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Of course the fans thoughts are vital regarding any re-construction but arguably the biggest / staunchest / diehard fans of any club are the committee guys so their opinions are valued too.

Remember speaking to lots of friends and fellow fans when the Ayrshire/ central teams combined to make the super leagues and lots said that they " wouldn't be back " , " we only want Ayrshire football " etc.

The same guys still follow their team regardless to this day and the core element of fans at junior clubs are there to support their team regardless of what setup / league that they're in.

Whit ye saying? Fans don't really know whit they want and should leave it to folk that know..like committee men... :)

Personally don't think either Beith or Ladeside will be seen as must haves for the new superduper league...and if it went with Johnston,would never get in.

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