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#31
Thistle_do_nicely

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Yeah, okay, you are right.

I bow to your superior knowledge of the Spanish game.



I was talking about the perception of English football Posted Image



Then perhaps you should explain your views properly to prevent them being misinterpreted in future.


I spend zero time on editing these posts, appropriate interpretation is assumed.


If I make poorly worded arguments the onus is on you to be able to decipher them

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Know what?
I think Scottish football's going to be just fine.


#32
Supras

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It's not to say Stoke are better than Santander, its just an attitude thing and goes to the heart of the English game. The sort of keep running for 90minutes and never give in type thing. It does not really exist in Spain.



It's a perception that doesn't really exist in reality, I don't think.



Then perhaps you should explain your views properly to prevent them being misinterpreted in future.


Okay, it's listed above. In the small section I quoted all you really talk about is the English game and the perceptions around it. Why did you think I was talking about the Spanish game? What about my post indicated that I was?

Either way such a bullish and sarcastic response shows you are just at the level of the rest of us now.

If I make poorly worded arguments the onus is on you to be able to decipher them



What about is was porly worded exactly?

But you're right, it made perfect sense to me so I assumed it would be to others. Maybe its a character flaw but I have neither the time nor inclination to hold peoples hand and walk them through exactly what I am saying and in what context. If you don't get it fine, don't respond, but if the alternative is me proof reading my posts before submitting then that really isn't going to happen.

Not that it ever really comes up as a problem, my punctuation and expression is no worse or better than anyone elses. Quite why you made the exact same point over two threads, both with specific relation to me, is anyones guess. Do you find my posts particulalry hard to follow or something?
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Probably several. But that's not really that important - a team is a team. England are a better team than Italy at present. I expect you to feel very disappointed in a couple of weeks.

To be fair supras seems like the irrelevant no more that spends his spare time eating bricks

Atletico are not potential winners of the Champions League in my opinion.They have as much chance as Milan. i.e. none.

 


#33
fueradejuego

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Okay, it's listed above. In the small section I quoted all you really talk about is the English game and the perceptions around it. Why did you think I was talking about the Spanish game? What about my post indicated that I was?


Your point was badly constructed as was your earlier point which we discussed.

It's very well saying I should have interpreted your posts correctly but given some of the bizarre views on here on a regular basis, irrepsective of your normally sane views, making any assumptions can be tricky.

It's not an issue. It's finished now anyway.

Either way such a bullish and sarcastic response shows you are just at the level of the rest of us now.


It was hardly bullish and I don't consider it sarcastic.

It's was certainly a bit bitchy but nothing more.

At the same level :huh: , nah, maybe soon but not yet :lol:

#21 shows that I have still got it.
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#34
banterman86

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What about is was porly worded exactly?

But you're right, it made perfect sense to me so I assumed it would be to others. Maybe its a character flaw but I have neither the time nor inclination to hold peoples hand and walk them through exactly what I am saying and in what context. If you don't get it fine, don't respond, but if the alternative is me proof reading my posts before submitting then that really isn't going to happen.

Not that it ever really comes up as a problem, my punctuation and expression is no worse or better than anyone elses. Quite why you made the exact same point over two threads, both with specific relation to me, is anyones guess. Do you find my posts particulalry hard to follow or something?


With respect Supras, i can't think of a poster who ends up in confused arguments over semantics and context more on this site than you, I just always presuemd it was trolling.

Now anyway,care to ape FJ with a substaintive post about Bayern storming the prmiership? :)
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#35
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Judging by the way AC Milan dismantled Arsenal in the Champions League I'd say they would do pretty well in the premier league in England. Its obviously hard to say if they would win it but I think they would definitely be in with a shout. I was very impressed by them particularly their ability to pass their way out of trouble with excellent close control, strength on the ball and quick thinking and feet. Their finishing was clinical and defensively they seemed pretty solid as Italian teams tend to be. Only really RVP caused them any trouble and he could cause trouble for most defences.

That said I know Arsenal are poor at the back but I do think this AC Milan side are decent enough to be in contention with Man U and Man C for the EPL.

Edited by Cammy35, 17 February 2012 - 15:22.

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#36
Supras

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Your point was badly constructed as was your earlier point which we discussed.

It's very well saying I should have interpreted your posts correctly but given some of the bizarre views on here on a regular basis, irrepsective of your normally sane views, making any assumptions can be tricky.

It's not an issue. It's finished now anyway.

It was hardly bullish and I don't consider it sarcastic.

It's was certainly a bit bitchy but nothing more.

At the same level :huh: , nah, maybe soon but not yet :lol:


Yeah but specifically how was it badly constructed? It could have been structured fine but there was no reason whatsoever for you to assume it was about Spanish football. I can't legislate for that, the other alternative would be "I don't think that perception of English football is..." but I would think that is clunky and unnecessary spoon feeding.

If it's too tricky for you don't do it.

This line you are pursuing is not reasonable and highly personal - classic hallmarks of regular Misc posters.

With respect Supras, i can't think of a poster who ends up in confused arguments over semantics and context more on this site than you, I just always presuemd it was trolling.

Now anyway,care to ape FJ with a substaintive post about Bayern storming the prmiership? :)


Not even Ad Lib? I don't think I get involved in semantics - certainly not consciously, I'd far rather fueradejuego discussed if it the perception of English football really is false rather than bitching about how "poorly constructed" my post was and make sarcastic, arrogant comments about his knowledge of Spanish football.

How substantive do you want it to be? Do you disagree with it? Does anyone else disagree with it? Is there really much worth in a long post about a purely hypothetical question? Will I construct it well enough?

Etc.

Edited by Supras, 17 February 2012 - 16:41.

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Probably several. But that's not really that important - a team is a team. England are a better team than Italy at present. I expect you to feel very disappointed in a couple of weeks.

To be fair supras seems like the irrelevant no more that spends his spare time eating bricks

Atletico are not potential winners of the Champions League in my opinion.They have as much chance as Milan. i.e. none.

 


#37
Swampy

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Good thread IMO.
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#38
fueradejuego

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Now anyway,care to ape FJ with a substaintive post about Bayern storming the prmiership? :)


:rolleyes:

Yeah but specifically how was it badly constructed? It could have been structured fine but there was no reason whatsoever for you to assume it was about Spanish football. I can't legislate for that, the other alternative would be "I don't think that perception of English football is..." but I would think that is clunky and unnecessary spoon feeding.

If it's too tricky for you don't do it.

This line you are pursuing is not reasonable and highly personal - classic hallmarks of regular Misc posters.


Yes, my comments were bitchy but nothing I said was personal. I don't have a go at posters on here, it achieves nothing.

It's finished now. Lets move on.

Not even Ad Lib? I don't think I get involved in semantics - certainly not consciously, I'd far rather fueradejuego discussed if it the perception of English football really is false rather than bitching about how "poorly constructed" my post was and make sarcastic, arrogant comments about his knowledge of Spanish football.

How substantive do you want it to be? Do you disagree with it? Does anyone else disagree with it? Is there really much worth in a long post about a purely hypothetical question? Will I construct it well enough?

Etc.


My arrogance over Spanish football probably mirrors your condescenscion when discussing refereeing (which in my opinion is sometimes misplaced).

This is adding nothing to the thread.

As the ever optimistic Banterman86 (:P) asks, will you make a substantive post about how Bayern or any other major European team would perform another top European League (of course this is all hypothetical but it is providing plenty of worthwhile talking points).
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#39
doulikefish

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Barcelona would win the epl,spl,sfl,mlb,nfl,afl,grand national,stanley cup,f1,irl and the cricket world cup
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Spoiler

#40
Latino Lover

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Sunderland are unbeaten in Spain IIRC & would surely break the duopoly of Barca & Real.
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#41
H_B

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Sunderland are unbeaten in Spain IIRC & would surely break the duopoly of Barca & Real.


Martin O'Neill knows how to get a result in Barcelona,... I think you are on to something here.
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#42
banterman86

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As promised, here's some speculative fiction regarding Celtic in the EPL.

From an economoic perspective the benfits to Celtic would be obvious, although i;ve nver bought the theory that Celtic would instantly become a powerouse. I think they would be much more likely to settle into the role Everton, Newcastle Spurs and Villa seem to find themselves in - bigger than most, miles off the top four and capable of being horrendously mismanaged to relegation or overmanaged to the Top 4.

Of course, there have been longstanding theories amongst Celtic fans that pitching up in the Premiership would see the likes of Dermott desmond loose the purse strings, but Celtic are too well run a club to become relaint on an unsustaianable player model

What would quickly happen is a deluge of tabloid articles linking lots of players and managers with Celtic. If Lennon had a poor run of results, "Celtic-Minded" premeirship managers such as Lambert,Moyes,McCarthy,Rodgers and O'Neill would be lazily linked by journalists, whilst every Irish player in the league would preusmably be seriously linked with the club.

On the pitch, Celtic just now are arguably a decent Championship side, luckily decent championship sides such as Stoke, norwhich and Swansea have all doen well enough in the EPL in the past and in the present. i aimgine a team emphasising Celtic's strong centre midfield would take the field most weeks. as a direct knock on effect of this, it;s unlikely Stokes and Hooper would have too many opporuntites to strike up an understanding, as Lennon prefers a lone striker such as Samaras or Brozek for away games, until he eventually frees up his side to play somewhat akin to the team that started against hearts a few weeks back - three ahrd working central midfielders, two wingers and Gary Hooper. Whther Hooper would be abl;e to develop his game to play by himself with his opportunites more limited is another question, but his work rate, attitude and above average goal return leads Neil Lennon to simply say "Andy Carroll, 35m" at every press conference when asked about Hooper's future.

Season 1 sees Celtic safe with a few games to spare, and the club look at Newcastle and Spurs as their template to get back into the Champions League within 5 years.

Off the pitch and away from the board room, the Celtic away support becomes one of the major talking points of the season, the "friendly leprechaun" element of the support os gleefully played up by sky sports as the "best league in the world gets the best fans in the world", meranwhile, the broadsheets and sundays turn their attention towards certain songs and the Ultras element in the support.
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#43
fueradejuego

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A good sound post young Banterman :)

I think if either of the old firm went to England, the first couple of seasons would be about consolidation first and foremost and then seek to build a stronger team with the increased revenues etc.

As you point out, some mis-management and you are in a relegation scrap though.

No Bundesliga or Serie A view so far.

Anyone?
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#44
Latino Lover

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Bit dismissive of Spurs there as they are cruising into the top 4 this year, otherwise a good post.
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#45
Long live the 69

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Let's say Rangers win the tax case & get invited into the EPL for the 12/13 season.

I would imagine we'd struggle big time. Also think it'd take us 5-6 years to become an established midtable team. Probably kick on from then?

I honestly have no idea how we'd do..?
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I'm not saying the guys a genius and the way they won it will hardly be renowned for style but you can only piss with the cock you have and Barca and Bayern had far bigger dicks than Chelsea and they still papped them both out so fair play to them.



#46
Mozzamozza

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Let's say Rangers win the tax case.......


Ok you've taken that too far.
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#47
banterman86

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Bit dismissive of Spurs there as they are cruising into the top 4 this year, otherwise a good post.



Oops, it wasn't meant to come across that way - I have no english team but I like seeing Spurs do well this weather - my point is they are outside the top four in terms of operating budget and so forth.
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#48
Poet of the Macabre

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Bayern are one of the best three teams in Europe, yet aren't even in the top two in Germany?
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This Kingdom is ours.

 


#49
banterman86

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Bayern are one of the best three teams in Europe, yet aren't even in the top two in Germany?



it;s not really that strange - Milan were arguably the best team in Europe for a spell in the mid noughties and did very little domesticaly.
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#50
forameus

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The Celtic/Rangers points made in this topic are interesting ones in the context of them ever being invited down South. I don't think it would ever actually happen, but it's possible, and would certainly cause quite a ripple effect down the leagues.

I did something similar by editing a FM12 game (DISCLAIMER: I don't put this forward as scientific proof :-p) and put the Old Firm into the Championship. However, despite that probably being the best thing for them, the chance of them moving there and not to the Premiership is probably even less likely. IF they did though, I think they would be in for quite a battle. The Championship is a tough enough league to get out of as it is, but throwing those two into the mix, I think they would have the potential to be a play-off chasing side, but would need a healthy dose of luck to make it that far. With a couple of seasons there, building up to a promotion, I think they would hold their own in the Premiership, perhaps push for the lower European places. Time would be the big thing for both clubs - if they survive the first few years on their current squads, then the money situation would start to improve greatly, and they could attract bigger name players. But would they be able to break the quadropoly (is that even a word?) and hit the Champions League places? I'm not sure.

The big thing if this happened would be how they were accomodated - who drops down to make space for them? I can't imagine any club being too happy to give up a spot in a higher league, and lose money/prestige as a result. If they went down the unfair route, put the Old Firm in the Premiership, and then relegated the two teams sitting just above the relegation zone right down the ladder, I can see them becoming the most hated clubs in Britain. How would that affect them?
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#51
fueradejuego

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Napoli were not at their best tonight but it would be interesting to see how their 3-4-3 formation would do in the Premiership on a weekly basis.

Mazerri seldom deviates from the 3-4-3, although he does make minor adjustments so opponents broadly know how Napoli will line up yet they still seem to struggle. The wing backs can tuck in when required to support Inler and Gargano in midfield and the front three all put a shift in.

Chelsea had plenty of space in midfield tonight yet still failed to make it count and always looked like conceding on the counter attack.

How should you line up to defeat Napoli?
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#52
Polomoney

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So if the old firm were in the championship (hypothetical of course) would any non-old firm fans support them? I always look out for championship teams with a Scottish connection (Cardiff etc). Would this hold for a 'Scottish' team, or is the cancer too deep?
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#53
bullywee

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So if the old firm were in the championship (hypothetical of course) would any non-old firm fans support them? I always look out for championship teams with a Scottish connection (Cardiff etc). Would this hold for a 'Scottish' team, or is the cancer too deep?


i think everyone interested in football at the time of the OFs move down south would still hate them with a passion, but as time went on and we started to die off, a lot/ most people would hold them as their english team(s).
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But after the show, walking to my car later that night in the car park, I saw Heidenreich in the corner of the car park squatting and taking a shit. I couldn't believe my eyes. I hurried my son into the car and I looked at this disgusting, vile man with nothing but pity. My opinion of him did a full 180. It was one of the most disgusting things I had ever seen in my life, and likely ever will.

dench.jpg


#54
banterman86

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Napoli were not at their best tonight but it would be interesting to see how their 3-4-3 formation would do in the Premiership on a weekly basis.

Mazerri seldom deviates from the 3-4-3, although he does make minor adjustments so opponents broadly know how Napoli will line up yet they still seem to struggle. The wing backs can tuck in when required to support Inler and Gargano in midfield and the front three all put a shift in.

Chelsea had plenty of space in midfield tonight yet still failed to make it count and always looked like conceding on the counter attack.

How should you line up to defeat Napoli?


A Mourinho era Chelsea set up I think - 4-3-3 with pacy wngers and a big target man, actually monopolise the mdifields and force them to a back 5, and when you win the ball from them, transition quickly to the wingers in behind their wing backs to stretch the back 3.

Martin O'Neill v Alex Mcliesh means i'll never trust a back 3 against a 4-3-3 with genuine pace....Peter Lovenkrands :(

On the other hand, I genuinely think a back three could work with someone playing the "anti-Busquets role" - a CB who steps into midfield so that the back three can turn into a back four. There's a logsitical problem with this, as a player stepping forward when his side is under pressure seems strange, but I think it could be coached.


i think everyone interested in football at the time of the OFs move down south would still hate them with a passion, but as time went on and we started to die off, a lot/ most people would hold them as their english team(s).


The idea of "Football tourist" could play a factor here - Scottish epople whp hate the Old irm but who have an English team , ro just want to see a premeirship game live.
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#55
Saintee4life

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Napoli were not at their best tonight but it would be interesting to see how their 3-4-3 formation would do in the Premiership on a weekly basis.

Mazerri seldom deviates from the 3-4-3, although he does make minor adjustments so opponents broadly know how Napoli will line up yet they still seem to struggle. The wing backs can tuck in when required to support Inler and Gargano in midfield and the front three all put a shift in.

Chelsea had plenty of space in midfield tonight yet still failed to make it count and always looked like conceding on the counter attack.

How should you line up to defeat Napoli?

As mentioned before have pacy wingers and a target man maybe a attacking midfielder and make sure your defenders stay in position though because they exploited the gaps left by ivanovic. if that doesn't work give them the ball as they are only really good at counter attacking

Edited by Saintee4life, 22 February 2012 - 20:24.

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#56
fueradejuego

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As mentioned before have pacy wingers and a target man maybe a attacking midfielder and make sure your defenders stay in position though because they exploited the gaps left by ivanovic. if that doesn't work give them the ball as they are only really good at counter attacking


Yeah, Napoli are designed to let teams come onto them.

Where Mazerri has been astute is allowing his wing backs to tuck in when needed to provide a narrow 4 in midfield.

Agree with you and Banterman. A central 3 in midfield will combat Gargano and Inler but given how direct Napoli are, a lack of possession is probably not a concern for them.

Two wingers is key to push their full backs deep or pull the central defenders wide and given their lack of mobility and pace, I don't think Aronica or Cannavaro would relish that.

So in the Premiership, how would Napoli perform over a full season?

With a bit of a novelty system so far as the Premiership is concerned, I think they would do quite well initially but once teams recognise their system and given the bog standard 4-4-2 which many English teams utilise including wingers and attacking full backs, Mazarri would perhaps be forced to alter things slightly over time.
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