[RB-Scotland]

Bryan has shown a lot of personality lately, though. And I don't see why charisma makes a difference in relation to believing a guy can go toe-to-toe with established main eventers. Surely that side of it is all about in-ring skills?

[SampFan101]

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=04R6ncvaquU

[Parscelona]

RB-Scotland, on 02 April 2012 - 16:43, said:

Bryan has shown a lot of personality lately, though. And I don't see why charisma makes a difference in relation to believing a guy can go toe-to-toe with established main eventers. Surely that side of it is all about in-ring skills?

Is that why the Smackdown ratings have plummeted ever since he became WHC?

Also having charisma is a lot more important than being good in the ring. If this wasn't the case then tell me why The Miz was in the Main Event of last years Wrestlemania?

[#Gary]

Smackdown ratings have plummeted because it's a pile of shite, not because Daniel Bryan was the champion.

And coming on next week saying the rating is up because Sheamus was champ won't stand either. The rating will be up for two reasons - many people will get back into Wrestling on the back of WrestleMania; and no more Teddy Long.

[Parscelona]

Rudy, on 02 April 2012 - 16:59, said:

Smackdown ratings have plummeted because it's a pile of shite, not because Daniel Bryan was the champion.

Deary me, the excuses for Bryan are coming out now.

Smackdown was a pile of shite when Mark Henry was champion, yet he still drew more viewers than Bryan.

[#Gary]

Excuses aren't really needed for Daniel Bryan. The Daniel Bryan, and YES chants throughout WrestleMania last night tells its own story really.

Daniel Bryan has got himself over as champion, whilst Sheamus has been irrelevant, boring as fck and done nothing for months.

Whether you personally rate him or not, WWE have ruined any chance of one of their best wrestlers ever being taken seriously again whilst also totally de-valuing the title, and thus making Big Show and Henry look pretty crap considering they're the two that Bryan continuously overcame to win and then keep the title.

[Big River]

Shuggie_Murray7, on 02 April 2012 - 15:21, said:

The HIAC was simply incredible. People can criticise it for having a pointless cell or what ever, but the fact still stands that it is some of the greatest storytelling ever seen in WWE. It was booked to absolute perfection. The near falls had me nervous as f**k. Shawn Michaels was superb, the way he went through emotional turmoil from start to finish. You can also say that every year Takers matches are predictible, but year on year he gets you going, you're on the edge of your seat shiteing yourself. I just watched again and IT IS one of the best matches in Mania history for me. I mean Taker/HBK put on two 5 star matches, both of which were technically better, but neither match, nor their outing last year has gotten anywhere near the story telling they procduced last night, just about as perfect a psychological match as I've ever seen. f**k me, I'm still buzzing.

I actually got slight goosebumps reading that. I don't want to sound like I'm overselling it, but it's one of the best matches I've ever witnessed for the storytelling alone.

Parscelona, on 02 April 2012 - 16:41, said:

These three have similar builds to Bryan, yet what's the difference between them and Bryan? Simple, these three individuals are very charismatic and the audience can buy into them defeating the bigger name superstars in the industry, whereas this isn't the case for Bryan.

Or maybe the difference is that they have been in the WWE much longer and therefore have had time to develop their character and a connection with the audience. Bryan has only been involved with the WHC for a year or so and he's looked good in that time. He obviously has the in-ring ability and has developed some charisma in that time too. As an aggressive heel, there's definitely space for him in the main event picture.

[DomDom]

Right, thoughts as I watch since I never got in anywhere last night.

Daniel Bryan © vs. Sheamus - World Heavyweight Championship

Daniel Bryan is OVER at Wrestlemania, which basically confirms the massive smark audience. Shame that Sheamus is the one that this backfires on since I actually quite like him. Oh f**k off. f**k RIGHT OFF!!! Right, I wanted a Sheamus win... but COME ON!!! I actually said that to my PC screen there. It's a good idea on booking given the way the fued went, but at the same time, this is one of the matches that had real potential and they never let it deliver. What's the bets Orton/Kane gets about 15 minutes now? DUD

Johnny Ace is looking... well... ace. So is the venue btw. That place looks fucking glorious.

Kane vs. Randy Orton

Looks like they're testing my match time theory quite early on the show actually. Was disappointing to hear a few "Boring" chants through this. Even I was a bit cynical but I was always willing to give it a chance and I feel like I was rewarded for this most of the way. A couple of down points when Kane was in control but it was mostly well built and well paced. Loved the finish to the match as well. ***1/2

Cody Rhodes © vs. The Big Show - WWE Intercontinental Championship

Went as you'd expect really. Show being the angry b*****d and Rhodes trying to use speed to get around the size difference. From that standpoint, it was a smart match. SPEAR TO THE BALLS~~!!! The result was the right one as well. Merely a standard match, but it wasn't shit. **

Diva Tag Match

Gave it a chance, and it was shit. Lets move on.

Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Hell in a Cell Match

Early in the show there! Right. This match was too long for starters. You could tell they didn't know how to fill the time and there was lots of stalling. That said, the match was very dramatic and once again they made you feel that it could go either way. There was some good storytelling, with some nice nods to the previous match, and also The Undertaker was dominant this time around as he had to be given the previous year. This could have been better but it was still a very good match. ****

Oh, and the key question... how did The Undertaker manage to win since Triple H gets everything he wants all the time because he's married to Stephanie?

Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy

This should at least be a lot of fun if nothing else. Jerry Lawler has an absolute nightmare on commentary for this one. He says "What has Jack Swagger ever done at Wrestlemania?" even though he won the Money in the Bank one year, and then Lawler, when Long is mentioned as someone who would let power go to his head, says "What power?", basically demeaning the entire match in two words. Of course, it doesn't help that much of the match wasn't very good anyways. Delighted with the result though. Hot ending doesn't save this one though. *1/2

CM Punk © vs. Chris Jericho - WWE Championship

Yeah, this should have been much better. Once again, it took far too long to get to where it was going. The pace of the match in the first half was absolutely chronic. The only saving grace was Jericho being a total p***k. Everything after the Suicide Dive was really good I suppose. **3/4

While I was happy to see Brodus at Wrestlemania, that was a bad segment.

John Cena vs. The Rock

Jesus, even taking that music away, they still have a LOT of time left here. Why do fans chant "Same Old Shit" at ANYONE, let alone Cena? Every single wrestler has a series of moves. It's the most ridiculous criticism you can aim at a wrestler. Dumb fucks. The crowd was absolutely nuclear for this one though. The Rock wrestling in such a long match after such a long time off does look like a bad idea, but given the match he was in, it had to be a bit of an epic. Anything else would have been disappointing. It was still really good though, as it's still The Rock vs. John Cena. The ending would have sent the roof of if it had a roof. Really good match. ****

All in all, it was a pretty poor Wrestlemania I thought.

[forehead7]

Parscelona, on 02 April 2012 - 15:03, said:

Five to ten years ago? Daniel Bryan joined the WWE in 2009 and i've judged him from then, as i don't have any interest in what he previously done on the diddy independant circuit scene.

This isn't the first time where i've criticised Bryan, as i honestly don't see the big deal about him. He doesn't have the build to be a World Champion, do people seriously think that he looks like the sort of guy who could beat the likes of Sheamus, Triple H or Cena? No chance, plus unlike CM Punk, he doesn't have any charisma to make up for his smaller build. He is the definition of a mid-carder.

He was lucky to even be in a Wrestlemania title match as he brought in smaller Smackdown ratings than Mark Henry for goodness sake. Honestly, i'm not fussed that he lost in 18 seconds, as he doesn't belong in the Main Event picture. At least now, we actually have someone who looks like a World Champion in Sheamus.

I meant that five to ten years ago, WWE had a better main event so it was harder for someone smaller to get into that scene. They had to be exceptional like Eddie Guerrero.

Yes, because he could slap on any number of submissions that could make them tap. That's why people like him and CM Punk can be legitimately booked against bigger guys. You're also mixing your points up, how does charisma make someone more likely to beat bigger guys? It makes them more entertaining but doesn't make a guy more or less likely to beat someone. If we're taking it as a kayfabe fight (which you obviously are if you're bringing up realism) then is Zack Ryder more likely to beat the Great Khali?

Did you not hear the crowd during their entrances and match? There were definite boos when Sheamus walked in and the yes chant just before it started was very audible. That shows that Bryan's over more than Sheamus which makes it even more impressive if he's as un-charismatic as you seem to think.

[DomDom]

No. It shows that Wrestlemania is smark central. Which I thought we already knew.

[Dindeleux]

Only the 2 highly advertised matches got pass marks from me.

I'm not really complaining as I would happily pay the £15 for these matches alone.

Punk vs Y2J was much like their fued - never going anywhere.

Orton vs Kane The only plus being Randys defeat which will hopefully send him in a better direction.

6 man tag - WTF, that should be the type of match you get on Smackdown. Booker T carrying the Teddy team??? WTF????

Womens wrestling..........end it, end it now.

D Bryans match.........disgusting.

Rap/Pop concerts..........disgusting.

Overall poor mania - saved by the double main event. Think Wrestlemania 8, only worse.

[DomDom]

Wrestlemania 8 also had Piper/Hart which was, for me, the best match on that card.

[forehead7]

DomDom, on 02 April 2012 - 18:52, said:

No. It shows that Wrestlemania is smark central. Which I thought we already knew.

Smarks know more than everyone else though

[Dunning1874]

Bryan has been as over as f**k lately. He has quite clearly been worthy of being a main eventer. I can't believe someone would even try to argue otherwise. Having doubts prior to his run as champion was fair enough, but he's been superb since then.

forehead7, on 02 April 2012 - 13:40, said:

Anyone got a site that I can rewatch Mania on?

Firstrow have got it playing on a loop and vipbox have got it split into three parts. First row stream was a bit jumpy though; had to use it this morning as I fell asleep during Punk v Jericho. Didn't bother me much as it was an excuse to rewatch Taker v HHH.

Nothing to add to what's already been said about Bryan and Sheamus. Absolute travesty, not only burying a guy who'd only recently got over as a main eventer but burying the WHC as well. 0/10.

Kane v Orton - Better than expected to be honest, and as already said it means Kane can still be regarded as a credible threat rather than jobbing to the stars again. 6/10

Divas - Kelly Kelly actually managed to do a move properly! It was a shite match, but that was expected. Minor point but why did Beth and Eve come out to Eve's music? Beth's the champion! 2/10.

Rhodes v Show - Again, better than expected. Made sense with the storyline to have Big Show winning, and allows Rhodes to feud with Sheamus for the WHC after Bryan has his rematch. You'll never get a brilliant match out of Show, but Rhodes did his best. 6/10.

Undertaker v HHH - Yeah, the cell was pretty pointless, but what an incredible match. The storytelling was unbelievable, and Michaels played it perfectly. Sweet Chin Music into the Pedigree had me genuinely believing it was over. Taker's foot on the slegdehammer, HHH's final defiant suck it, perfect. The ending with them walking out together was exactly what should have happened too. 10/10.

12 man tag - Obviously this wasn't going to get enough time for any of them to really do much but it was decent enough, although it was blatantly obvious Eve would cost Teddy the match. I know I'm just being pedantic but should Team Teddy not have been disqualified for interference by Hornswoggle? I'm sure the ref was looking right at it! Thought for a moment that Ziggler had fucked up getting back in to break up the pin after it had descended into a brawl but he just made it. Miz ducking the Rough Ryder for Ryder to carry on and hit Ziggler with it was good. Served well as filler and had the right result, good riddance to Long. 6/10.

Punk v Jericho - Far too slow to start with, but had some great storytelling; Jericho screaming 'How's your father?' was fantastic. The feud's been pretty shite but once it got going it was a good match with some excellent wrestling. After Jericho got out of the Anaconda Vice with Punk already having got out of the Walls of Jericho I didn't have a clue how they were going to end it; although thinking about it I know he'll probably never do it again I started thinking we might get to see a Pepsi Plunge. Didn't have long to wait after that to find out, the ending was good though. 8/10.

Cena v Rock - Clearly I'm in a minority here but I thought it was disappointing. I can't really put my finger on it but something just didn't seem right. Maybe it's because I wasn't in the moment having fallen asleep last night and watched it this morning instead, but I thought the pace was all wrong, it felt... disjointed? Not sure if that's the right word but I just felt it didn't seem to be going anywhere. The atmosphere was flat as well, but I wouldn't entirely blame the crowd for that; obviously a crowd can make a match but they'd already seen Taker v HHH and this didn't have anything like the same level of storytelling. They'd also had two absolutely shite excuses for musical performances killing the atmosphere right before the match. For all that I'm critical, there were obviously still some good bits, I like the arm count, thought Cena had it after the AA and the finish took me by surprise; I'd expected The Rock to get out of Cena's People's Elbow somehow but not get the win straight off it, so points for the surprise ending. 7/10.

They really need to stop having musicians performing at Mania. The reaction for both The Rock and Cena's entrances would have been far better had it just been straight into their music. Aside from that, FloRida and MGK (whoever the f**k MGK are?) added to the pointless Brodus Clay segment took up what, ten minutes, maybe closer to fifteen? There you go, time to have something approaching a sensible WHC match and still keeping your other shite backstage stuff.

[Paulo Sergio]

SampFan101, on 02 April 2012 - 16:44, said:

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=04R6ncvaquU

IMO.

[Paulo Sergio]

It's a shame wrestling threads aren't as active as this every Raw/PPV, although I suppose WrestleMania brings out the stay away fans - a bit like if your team reaches a cup final.

[gordon the gopher]

I think it would with a sub forum. Then a new topic would be started for each ppv etc. Casual fans dont want to dip into a thread that is nearly 800 pages long and contains chat about everything about wrestling

[Musketeer Gripweed]

No stupid gimmicks. No stupid celebrity matches, apart from the diva, so that doesn't count. No stupid run ins. No McMahans. Good Mania.

I'd love a good HD picture of Taker, HHH and HBK on the ramp.

Shawn's eye is getting worse by the way.

[Derek Patterson]

Musketeer Gripweed, on 02 April 2012 - 21:55, said:

I'd love a good HD picture of Taker, HHH and HBK on the ramp.

Musketeer Gripweed, on 02 April 2012 - 21:55, said:

Shawn's eye is getting worse by the way.

What exactly happened to it? Just fro years of knocks? I've noticed it's got increasingly Saturnesque the past couple of years.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Musketeer Gripweed, on 02 April 2012 - 21:55, said:

No stupid gimmicks. No stupid celebrity matches, apart from the diva, so that doesn't count. No stupid run ins. No McMahans. Good Mania.

I'd love a good HD picture of Taker, HHH and HBK on the ramp.

Shawn's eye is getting worse by the way.

Was it not Jericho who fucked HBK's eye? I'm sure it was and it's gotten worse ever since.

[#Gary]

Aye, pretty sure it was Jericho putting him through the JeriTron on his Highlight Reel shows that went a bit wrong and left him with a detached retina or something.

[banterman86]

forehead7, on 02 April 2012 - 03:29, said:

, answer me this; how has the Rock winning against Cena at Mania helped the company?

It sews the seeds for a potential Cena heel turn, or at least some sort of character development. there's also rematch potential.

I had Cena down to win, but if he was do to so, i would have had it like a Wrestlemania x-7 Austine style turn, with Vince coming out to help his "corporate champions" win.

This is still an option, either at Summerslam or Wrestlemania next year, but in truth Cena is arguably at his most interesting now, as a Bret Hart style tweener. But how does Cena react after weeks of "I need to win?". Neither guy "needed" the win, so the only question is what offers more storyline potential.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Rudy, on 02 April 2012 - 22:10, said:

Aye, pretty sure it was Jericho putting him through the JeriTron on his Highlight Reel shows that went a bit wrong and left him with a detached retina or something.

Found it I think

[Shuggie_Murray7]

2:45 He is easily my favourite guy ever.
http://www.youtube.c...&v=93kOL6nUxLI# !

[Scotty Tunbridge]

Shuggie_Murray7, on 03 April 2012 - 00:18, said:

2:45 He is easily my favourite guy ever.
http://www.youtube.c...&v=93kOL6nUxLI# !

Absoulte hero.