[The Old Northerner]

credo, on 08 February 2012 - 15:40, said:

Money and ads rule the TV game all over this earth, Old Northerner.

I agree entirely. But if you want to see the combined pulling power of your diaspora and Sky's interest you just need to look around you. You are where you are and Sky, the Premier league and the top 4 or 5 clubs are where they are. Your pulling power will also decline with the lack of the OF games

This post has been edited by The Old Northerner: 08 February 2012 - 16:37

[Cammy35]

youngsy, on 08 February 2012 - 13:49, said:

At the moment Rangers have a debt liability of £42 million,£18million of that to Wavetower,£24 million to Ticketus. Wavetower are the secured creditor,at the moment the tax issue hasn't been determined either way or indeed any sum owed,should there be one. Two routes Whyte can take us down,pre-pack administration or the CVA route. HMRC,if they win the case,can apply for immmediate payment and failure to receive payment can apply for a winding up order,that's when the club enters administration. Whyte has stated that it's unlikely Rangers will appeal the case,should we lose.

That suggests that he is preparing for administration of some description,be it pre-pack or CVA. If he goes pre-pack HMRC will get nothing as the company as it stands at the moment will be wound up. That seems to be the game Whyte is playing at the moment,where as the preferred creditor he can basically purchase the assets of the current company. It's what he does,it's not the outcome many want but basically he will have a football club that has cost him £18 million,not forgetting the £1 to Murray of course. He has got some deal there with many outcomes in his favour. Since he took over the club the share value has dropped twenty points.

Tax owed is normally a preferential creditor in the event of insolvency proceedings is it not.

[Tim Malloy]

Cammy35, on 08 February 2012 - 16:30, said:

Tax owed is normally a preferential creditor in the event of insolvency proceedings is it not.

Apparently not any more in Scotland. Different down south.

[Colin M]

The Old Northerner, on 08 February 2012 - 16:21, said:

If you want to see the combined pulling power of your diaspora and Sky's interest you just need to look around you. You are where you are and Sky, the Premier league and the top 4 or 5 clubs are where they are. Your pulling power will also decline with the lack of the OF games

Sky is also not the only investor in the English game - isn't there more money now going in from foreign rights than Sky put in? It is anticipated that those markets (particularly in Asia) will continue to grow.

Sky are huge but they are not the only broadcaster. There would be others waiting in the wings for the English league. Sky MAY be able to force Scottish Football to follow certain paths - I don't believe that the English Premier League would be so easy.

[The Old Northerner]

Colin M, on 08 February 2012 - 16:38, said:

Sky is also not the only investor in the English game - isn't there more money now going in from foreign rights than Sky put in? It is anticipated that those markets (particularly in Asia) will continue to grow.

Sky are huge but they are not the only broadcaster. There would be others waiting in the wings for the English league. Sky MAY be able to force Scottish Football to follow certain paths - I don't believe that the English Premier League would be so easy.

It may well pan out with another investor other than Sky. But the thrust of my argument is that the OF have been marginal, to say the least, to anybody broadcasting the English game. Or, as has been admitted, there *would* have been serious moves to shift them. Some OF fans' perception of their own potential is gloriously optimistic given the events of the past 20 years or so

[youngsy]

Cammy35, on 08 February 2012 - 16:30, said:

Tax owed is normally a preferential creditor in the event of insolvency proceedings is it not.

This was abolished on the 15th of September 2003 under the Enterprise Act 2002. HMRC are regarded as unsecured creditors. This is why Whyte secured the £18 million with Wavetower,making him the preferred creditor. He knew what he was doing and as such holds a strong hand in any negotiations.

[Colin M]

The Old Northerner, on 08 February 2012 - 16:43, said:

It may well pan out with another investor other than Sky. But the thrust of my argument is that the OF have been marginal, to say the least, to anybody broadcasting the English game. Or, as has been admitted, there *would* have been serious moves to shift them. Some OF fans' perception of their own potential is gloriously optimistic given the events of the past 20 years or so

Indeed - some OF minded observers seem to think the English game might look at them and think "global appeal, you say? Why didn't we think of that!"

[barrysnotter]

youngsy, on 08 February 2012 - 16:46, said:

This was abolished on the 15th of September 2003 under the Enterprise Act 2002. HMRC are regarded as unsecured creditors. This is why Whyte secured the £18 million with Wavetower,making him the preferred creditor. He knew what he was doing and as such holds a strong hand in any negotiations.

"strong" in terms of "his" personal finance, but not very strong from a Rangers point of view.

[tinkerbelle]

Would it be better for Rangers to go into administration now and lose the ten points now rather than at the end of the season and have to start next season on -10 points? At the end of the day they will still get europe next season in a much more realistic competition than the Champions league qualifier against some very tricky Eastern European side followed by probably another hiding to nothing from someone like PSG or Chelsea. No doubt the diehards will hit back with smart, negative comments but the sooner it gets sorted the better for all concerned.

[youngsy]

tinkerbelle, on 08 February 2012 - 21:03, said:

Would it be better for Rangers to go into administration now and lose the ten points now rather than at the end of the season and have to start next season on -10 points? At the end of the day they will still get europe next season in a much more realistic competition than the Champions league qualifier against some very tricky Eastern European side followed by probably another hiding to nothing from someone like PSG or Chelsea. No doubt the diehards will hit back with smart, negative comments but the sooner it gets sorted the better for all concerned.

We go into administration we can't compete in Europe anyway so it makes no odds. Whyte will more than likely wait for the full outcome of the tax case before deciding what to do. It's not a 100% certainty that the case will go against us anyway.

[Tim Malloy]

youngsy, on 08 February 2012 - 21:39, said:

We go into administration we can't compete in Europe anyway so it makes no odds. Whyte will more than likely wait for the full outcome of the tax case before deciding what to do. It's not a 100% certainty that the case will go against us anyway.

No! but 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% is damned well near it!

[youngsy]

Tim Malloy, on 08 February 2012 - 21:46, said:

No! but 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% is damned well near it!

Aye maybe,but until it's done and dusted either way no c unt knows anything.

[tinkerbelle]

youngsy, on 08 February 2012 - 21:39, said:

We go into administration we can't compete in Europe anyway so it makes no odds. Whyte will more than likely wait for the full outcome of the tax case before deciding what to do. It's not a 100% certainty that the case will go against us anyway.

I honestly did not realise that Euro football was a no no in admin

[eindhovendee]

tinkerbelle, on 08 February 2012 - 21:57, said:

I honestly did not realise that Euro football was a no no in admin

Financial problems stopped Portsmouth and Real Mallorca from getting into Europe recently.

There might be more.

[AndyM]

Tim Malloy, on 08 February 2012 - 21:46, said:

No! but 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% is damned well near it!

Only if you believe the hysterics on Sellik Boards then perhaps.

On the other hand HMRC aren't doing very well at the moment in court proceedings. Some bloke called Dodgy Harry just buttfucked them leaving them being accused of wasting £8m of public money on a ridiculous and pointless trial.

The more likely scenario is that Whyte will put Rangers into Administration and he is the largest secured creditor. It's a win/win for him even if he ends up losing control of the club to another owner. The smaller creditors will get shafted and HMRC should they win their case will be lucky to get a maximum of 10p in the pound. Selling Allan McGregor will leave Rangers with plenty leftover to sort that out.

So lets say Rangers go into Administration, would any club in the SPL actually have the balls to propose they are automatically relegated (let's say to Division 1) ? Unliklely. Celtic certainly wouldn't - Lawell and others such as Rod Petrie are disciples of Balance Sheet Economics and such a move would righly be seen as bad for business putting the SKY/ESPN deal at risk, not to mention the monies raised by Shirt Sponsorship, Corporate Hospitality and media rights.

[TheGreenMonster]

[Ronaldobhoy]

HMRC is no longer a preferred creditor, since 2002. The thinking behind this is that the TAxman should have no preference over debts. Why should the taxman be paid before a small supplier relying on a payment? What the change doesn't do is make the debt go away. However the money gets moved around, an administrator still has to look to sell off assets to meet debts, and that could mean players, Murray Park or Ibrox itself.

Rangers may continue to exist, but without the same asset base, maybe as a tenat somewhere with a lesser squad. Whyte has protected himself from exposure to toxic debt, but whether he can do the same with Rangers remains to be seen

[Henrik's tongue]

Wonder what odds I would get on Rangers going into administration tomorrow.

[The Taxman]

Henrik, on 10 February 2012 - 22:33, said:

Wonder what odds I would get on Rangers going into administration tomorrow.

Evens

[magee84]

Similar odds to them signing more 'free agent' ex players

davie weir would be cheap.......!!!!

Robert prytz & hugh burns to follow

oh how i laugh

[Tim Malloy]

Nananananananananananah!...... ...............