[Monkey Tennis]

I know that Pie and Bovril is not really in need of another thread on this subject, but I think there's room here for a first division perspective.

The way I see it, the fact that Rangers are in turmoil is simply a win-win for clubs in our position. While administration and the financial crippling of Rangers looks likely, I don't realistically see liquidation, but hoping doesn't hurt.

Anyway, the point is that for all that Celtic fans are enjoying what's happening, many of them are acknowledging what the rest of us know already - that the clubs need each other and they'll be worse off without the pantomime rivals that they actually love.

For other SPL sides, the idea of a Rangers-free top flight (by whatever means) might also be scary. Bigger clubs might feel that they'd have a better chance of success, but some of the particularly debt-laiden ones might worry about the impact of a re-negotiated TV deal.

For us though, I see nothing but benefit. The actual direct impact on our clubs might be fairly minimal, but can you imagine the delight of seeing Rangers shrivel and the morons in our towns who 'support' them losing interest? I don't suppose that many would drift back to their local clubs, but that's not really what I'm getting at.

What I am saying is that if Rangers do become badly damaged, whilst we might not hugely benefit, we wouldn't suffer either. That would just enable us to pull up a chair, relax and enjoy.
Very few things in football could give me as much pleasure as witnessing the genuine humbling of such a grotesque institution.

This post has been edited by Monkey Tennis: 01 February 2012 - 22:05

[Gaz]

I don't want the local pond-life that support Rangers anywhere near my club.

The thought of hundreds of recently ex-Rangers fans going to a Falkirk away game singing their pish terrifies me. Too many Falkirk fans are of the light blue persuasion as it is.

[Monkey Tennis]

Gaz, on 01 February 2012 - 21:54, said:

The thought of hundreds of recently ex-Rangers fans going to a Falkirk away game singing their pish terrifies me.

Do you seriously think they would though?

Falkirk don't enjoy massive financial advantages over nearly all of their rivals, meaning that over a decent period of time, they're likely to lose as many games as they win.

Such odds would not appeal to many of the Rangers fans I know.

[CALDERON]

Bring it on. One dies and the other will follow. Good times.

[qos_75]

They would just be reinvented as FC 1690 Rangers.

Seriously though, I can't imagine them completely folding but if they did, new owners would buy East Stirlingshire (for example) move them to a rented Ibrox and rename them Govan Rangers. For that reason I can't see much benefit to the lower leagues.

[rw89]

I'd love it if Rangers got shafted by HMRC, if it eventually pans out. While if it was any other club I'd be upset (other than Celtic), from Berwick to Ross County I'd be crushed to see any club have financial difficulties. However, as we all know, the ugly sisters are a bit different to any other club in Scotland. The shit they bring to our league from the gloryhunters who have no idea to the bigots who also have no idea. They may have a few fans who might well be decent people, but they are so few and far between that it isn't worth all the other shit that comes with it.

FTOF

[Monkey Tennis]

qos_75, on 01 February 2012 - 22:12, said:

They would just be reinvented as FC 1690 Rangers.

Seriously though, I can't imagine them completely folding but if they did, new owners would buy East Stirlingshire (for example) move them to a rented Ibrox and rename them Govan Rangers. For that reason I can't see much benefit to the lower leagues.

I don't think it would benefit the lower leagues either. My point is that unlike the SPL, neither would it harm them.

As individuals though would it not benefit us all hugely?
I know that I'd wander through leafy parks, grinning inanely while ruffling children's hair, to an upbeat soundtrack.

The world would simply be a better place - obviously without them altogether, but also with a seriously diminished version of them.

[qos_75]

Monkey Tennis, on 01 February 2012 - 22:21, said:

I don't think it would benefit the lower leagues either. My point is that unlike the SPL, neither would it harm them.

As individuals though would it not benefit us all hugely?
I know that I'd wander through leafy parks, grinning inanely while ruffling children's hair, to an upbeat soundtrack.

The world would simply be a better place - obviously without them altogether, but also with a seriously diminished version of them.

But would they be diminished? A new entity playing at Ibrox, debt free, having sidestepped the debt of Rangers FC, would surely be the same. In addition, if new owners bought another team's registration they would in effect be killing another club (you don't need to look far for examples of this) instead of Rangers.

This post has been edited by qos_75: 01 February 2012 - 22:43

[Zen Archer]

qos_75, on 01 February 2012 - 22:12, said:

They would just be reinvented as FC 1690 Rangers.

Seriously though, I can't imagine them completely folding but if they did, new owners would buy Stirlingshire East (for example) move them to a rented Ibrox and rename them Govan Rangers. For that reason I can't see much benefit to the lower leagues.

Excusing the error, the Steedmans tried to f**k over East Stirlingshire previously, they don't deserve any more stress, pick on another diddy club, Morton for example.

[Monkey Tennis]

qos_75, on 01 February 2012 - 22:31, said:

But would they be diminished? A new entity playing at Ibrox, debt free, having sidestepped the debt of Rangers FC, would surely be the same. In addition, if new owners bought another team's registration they would in effect be killing another club (you don't need to look far for examples of this) instead of Rangers.

You're missing my point though - insofar as I have one.

The likely outcome of the mess they're in is debated enough on the SPL and OF forums and I'm not attempting to launch another such discussion here.

What I'm saying is that we can safely hope for the worst for them, without having to worry about it damaging us.
Maybe you're right - maybe they'll survive this unscathed, maybe they'll stage a recovery in another guise that quickly restores the nasty status quo.
However, I'm just flagging up the fact that unlike some fans of SPL clubs, we've no need to be careful what we wish for.

[jupe1407]

qos_75, on 01 February 2012 - 22:31, said:

But would they be diminished? A new entity playing at Ibrox, debt free, having sidestepped the debt of Rangers FC, would surely be the same. In addition, if new owners bought another team's registration they would in effect be killing another club (you don't need to look far for examples of this) instead of Rangers.

I've mentioned this on the other threads, but:

1. The glory hunting OF fans i know would not be interested in such a new club. There's no way they'd start supporting a club that has it's trophy count re-set to zero (as a completely different legal entity) and would never, ever catch Celtic.

2. They would also not be remotely interested in a club which would be playing second fiddle to Celtic for years and years to come.

A new Rangers 2012 wouldn't be anything like the force they once were. Ever.

[JRS LEFT PEG]

Does anyone think it would be great if the Old Firm joined a Euro League .? I do . -----I reckon that over a period of time , interest in them would start to wane a bit and some would start to be assimilated into their local clubs .

[qos_75]

Monkey Tennis, on 01 February 2012 - 22:55, said:

You're missing my point though - insofar as I have one.

The likely outcome of the mess they're in is debated enough on the SPL and OF forums and I'm not attempting to launch another such discussion here.

What I'm saying is that we can safely hope for the worst for them, without having to worry about it damaging us.
Maybe you're right - maybe they'll survive this unscathed, maybe they'll stage a recovery in another guise that quickly restores the nasty status quo.
However, I'm just flagging up the fact that unlike some fans of SPL clubs, we've no need to be careful what we wish for.

I know where your coming from in as much as we are not reliant on two home games a season and a TV deal.

[qos_75]

jupe1407, on 01 February 2012 - 23:02, said:

I've mentioned this on the other threads, but:

1. The glory hunting OF fans i know would not be interested in such a new club. There's no way they'd start supporting a club that has it's trophy count re-set to zero (as a completely different legal entity) and would never, ever catch Celtic.

I think to begin with they might lose some of the glory hunting element but they would returneventually.

jupe1407, on 01 February 2012 - 23:02, said:

2. They would also not be remotely interested in a club which would be playing second fiddle to Celtic for years and years to come.

A new Rangers 2012 wouldn't be anything like the force they once were. Ever.

Again you might be right, but I think you would have more people willing to invest in a club that had zero debt, cost peanuts to buy and has a huge fan base rather than take on club in the state it is now. In essence, you would be a mug to save the club as it stands, but it would make a lot of sense starting it from scratch.

This post has been edited by qos_75: 01 February 2012 - 23:18

[HibeeJibee]

qos_75, on 01 February 2012 - 23:05, said:

I know where your coming from in as much as we are not reliant on two home games a season and a TV deal.

... although SFL clubs get a fair whack via the £1.8M annual settlement, and cup competitions prizemoney pots. And a lot of inherent value in all those monies (SPL funds particularly), rest upon the OF rivalry and OF playing matches.

If Rangers fold and the SPL TV deal goes down the plughole, the naming rights deal diminishes, and cup competition renewals go down, it has an impact on SFL clubs.

That said, I don't think they'll fold.

[jupe1407]

HibeeJibee, on 01 February 2012 - 23:18, said:

... although SFL clubs get a fair whack via the £1.8M annual settlement, and cup competitions prizemoney pots. And a lot of inherent value in all those monies (SPL funds particularly), rest upon the OF rivalry and OF playing matches.

If Rangers fold and the SPL TV deal goes down the plughole, the naming rights deal diminishes, and cup competition renewals go down, it has an impact on SFL clubs.

That said, I don't think they'll fold.

The deal won't be cancelled as such. Sky/ESPN will just re-negotiate it. Even if it's halved, considering a shedload of money therefore WON'T be going to Rangers, with redistribution, will it be a massive drop?

[Monkey Tennis]

HibeeJibee, on 01 February 2012 - 23:18, said:

it has an impact on SFL clubs.

That said, I don't think they'll fold.

A small impact which will be shared.

It's a deal I'd take right now, but like you, I don't see them folding either.

[Gaz FFC]

Basically as a good summary, the clubs most effected are the 1s most in debt and Celtic. Given my club has a history of paying off its debts when they get too much, all the others who will no doubt use administration as a cheque can rot in hell, you know who you are. You made your bed now lie in it.

[GiGi]

Zen Archer, on 01 February 2012 - 22:31, said:

Excusing the error, the Steedmans tried to f**k over East Stirlingshire previously, they don't deserve any more stress, pick on another diddy club, Morton for example.

Greenock is staunch Celtic territory, they wouldn't go near.

[jagfox]

If Rangers go down the tubes the lack of clubs with a decently sized team with resources, support and stadium will create a massive schism between Celtic and the least worse of the rest. Celtic would dominate until they jump the sinking ship elsewhere.
Scottish football would become officially a joke. The national team would lose a quarter to a third of its players over the coming years.
On a club level each club in the division has players that have come through Murray park or played for them. Thistle have or had three loan signings from them this season. Over the years a large number of players have come from the old firm. This is coming from the reality that a lot more youth players will try their luck down south or even abroad.
Obviously things could be better down the line in terms of a competitive top league, once Celtic move. However in the short term clubs will have to cut their cloth even shorter reducing an already second rate league to the third tier of clubs.
I don't see Thistle crowds increasing and it would half the chance of a lower league team getting a chance of a big money tie. The cups would be affected. On a positive foot there would be more chance of getting to the final, however the likelihood is that Celtic would win the majority of finals. Also crowds would drop and Hampden would be full only for finals if the other cheek of the arse are in the final. Even then two thirds at least would be wearing green and white hoops.
I don't even know where the rangers fans would go. Probably stay in the pub or house a.d cheer on Chelsea.
Anyway the football authorities will bend over backwards to save their sorry arse.
FTOF

[yoda]

HibeeJibee, on 01 February 2012 - 23:18, said:

If Rangers fold and the SPL TV deal goes down the plughole, the naming rights deal diminishes, and cup competition renewals go down, it has an impact on SFL clubs.

Oh really?*

Spoiler

^^^New smug face. Coming soon to a Ross County match thread near you.

*Sarcasm

[accies4life]

As a accies fan I see that if rangers were to disappear maybe we could get some more support as Hamilton is properly the biggest town in Scotland with a large population and yet the local team is very under supported due to our niegebours so if rangers were to crash out it would be interesting to see our attendence.but if I met one I would tell them to f**k off and die in a hole but that's me and it would properly benefit the club. But wouldn't the spl be boring as Celtic would win it every season

[EdinburghLivi]

The ramifications for Livingston are irrelevant, in my mind. I'll be delighted when they go under  greggy1.png (42.1K)
Number of downloads: 0

This post has been edited by EdinburghLivi: 02 February 2012 - 05:39

[Sludden123]

Gaz, on 01 February 2012 - 21:54, said:

I don't want the local pond-life that support Rangers anywhere near my club.

The thought of hundreds of recently ex-Rangers fans going to a Falkirk away game singing their pish terrifies me. Too many Falkirk fans are of the light blue persuasion as it is.

Spot on mate, there is no way that I would want those clowns watching my team.

[CALDERON]

Burn. Burn. Burn.