[HibeeJibee]

El Guaje, on 02 February 2012 - 09:39, said:

hibs £15 million profit where has that all gone...... on a new stand which sense its been build has never been full? could have bought players with that money instead?

It has gone on a new stand, debt reduction, building our training centre, and to a degree probably in permitting a higher wage bill. We could've spent it all on players and wages... but personally I'll take the things which will serve us well for the next half-century and more (the sustainable debt, the completed stadium, the training centre) over the odd splurge on better chances of finishing 3rd.

Sustainability over short-term cash-splashing.

[HanoMaSano]

HibeeJibee, on 02 February 2012 - 12:37, said:

It has gone on a new stand, debt reduction, building our training centre, and to a degree probably in permitting a higher wage bill. We could've spent it all on players and wages... but personally I'll take the things which will serve us well for the next half-century and more (the sustainable debt, the completed stadium, the training centre) over the odd splurge on better chances of finishing 3rd.

Sustainability over short-term cash-splashing.

I wonder how much of the cash has been splashed by paying off failed managers though.

It's a shame that the excitement which could have been generated around having the finally completed new stadium has been ruined by the team on the park being so awful this season. With crowds down and atmosphere poor I've heard people blaming the new stand for this, which doesn't exactly encourage attendance.

Most clubs have went too far the one way, overspending on wages etc. It's sensible that Hib's haven't done this, but they (IMO) have gone too far the other way. Underinvestment on the park will now be proving a false economy due to reduced income both in terms of gate receipts and prize money.

Running a football club is truly a balancing act which very few manage to get spot on. My own club have done fairly well in this regard post administration. But couldn't have got it much more wrong in the years before.

This post has been edited by HanoMaSano: 02 February 2012 - 12:57

[Galajambo]

Akpo Sodje, on 01 February 2012 - 22:25, said:

That's feckin unbelievable. Even with the new stand and training ground we're earning far more than we're spending.

But you're not though, at least not as much as you think, the table only takes into account transfer fees and not wage bills and typical every day running costs of a football club.

The staggering thing for me is that Hearts and HIbs have both raked in a decent amount in transfer fees and should be applauded for that as we're obviously doing something right when it comes to bringing on younger players, however Dundee Utd and Aberdeen have been dismal in comparison (as have the rest) when it comes to bringing through players and selling them on from the youth set up.

[Swello]

Galajambo, on 02 February 2012 - 13:02, said:

The staggering thing for me is that Hearts and HIbs have both raked in a decent amount in transfer fees and should be applauded for that as we're obviously doing something right when it comes to bringing on younger players, however Dundee Utd and Aberdeen have been dismal in comparison (as have the rest) when it comes to bringing through players and selling them on from the youth set up.

Your point is valid - but there is more too it. One of the reason that Hearts and Hibs have been able to command good transfer fees is because they had their guys on decent wages & long term contracts - so it took some money to shift them. Motherwell (for example) have undoubtably been decent at bringing people through from the youths or developing young players and selling them on, but given that they were typically on short term deals and low wages by financial necessity meant that only the exceptional players where some competition for their signature exists would command a top fee.

[AndyM]

Galajambo, on 02 February 2012 - 13:02, said:

But you're not though, at least not as much as you think, the table only takes into account transfer fees and not wage bills and typical every day running costs of a football club.

The staggering thing for me is that Hearts and HIbs have both raked in a decent amount in transfer fees and should be applauded for that as we're obviously doing something right when it comes to bringing on younger players, however Dundee Utd and Aberdeen have been dismal in comparison (as have the rest) when it comes to bringing through players and selling them on from the youth set up.

Correct. Despite what some would like to believe, Hibs actually had the 4th highest salary bill in the SPL and have done for a few years. Their players are on decent money. The club has bought badly and that is why they find themselves where they are. For me the questions about penny pinching from Petrie are wrong. He has employed bad managers who made bad decisions. That's where he can be questioned.

As for Hearts they were over 30m in debt when Craig Gordon was sold for the inflated sum of 9m. They're still over 30m in debt. That money appears to have been frittered away paying interest on debt and the salaries of players who simply did not merit it (Christian Nade anyone?) rather than lowering that debt.

[T_S_A_R]

Jambo Stu, on 31 January 2012 - 13:37, said:

Thank you, read it myself earlier. Rangers down £13 million in a recession?! No wonder they're fucked!

it surely has to be set against the money they have made from winning the league and playing in the champions league.

[Akpo Sodje]

Has anyone got wage figures from the last 5 years? Be interesting to see how much our jokers have "earned" and if it is the 4th highest.

[shedboy82]

06/07 was Levin's first season, I think, so the £650,000 would have to account for both his and Craig Brewster's signings before him. Think Noel Hunt cost £100,000, Kalvenes half of that, and I suppose the assorted nominal fees Levein paid out would eventually accumulate. Still seems a very high figure though, and I always assumed Jon Daly cost buttons.

[Don of the South]

El Guaje, on 02 February 2012 - 09:37, said:

LEE MILLER!!! is without a doubt the WORSE business united have done in a long while, paid £250,000 for him and then one year later Brewster hands him to aberdeen for abosolutely nothing!!

Not to mention we then sold him to Middlesbrough for about 500k

As for Aberdeen I'm not 100% sure really

06/07 - £25k - I think that was for Jonathan Kurrant? (God knows what he's doing now) or maybe a small fee for De Visscher?

07/08 - £106k - A hundred grand and our players in consisted of Derek Young, McNamara, Stuart Duff and Dave Bus?? Nae wonder Jimmy got sacked

08-09 - £453k - That was Mulgrew, Wright and Aluko - Other two both good signings but 100k for Tommy Wright has to be the worst signing we have ever made as a club

09-10 - £81k - compo for McArdle maybe - or nominal fee for Magennis

10-11 - £85k - no idea?

Despite some horrific signings its an overall 900k profit. Plus we've already sold Foster for £250k(ish) and Grimmer for £400k(ish) this season - can't complain too much.

[djchapsticks]

Aside from Gareth Wardlaw costing us £10,000, Malone/O'Donnell combining for £30,000 and Stephen McGinn getting us £100k, I don't understand where our figures come from.

We're certainly £100k short for season 06/07, if my memory serves me correct, as aside from the Malone O'Donnel deal, I can't recall us spending any more.

As for money received, unless it's a cumulation of nominal fees, then we've never got close to £550k. McGinn and perhaps Vilculus (young Latvian U19 goalie) to Rangers for £100k and £10k respectively.

ETA: Simon Lappin for about £125k as well, obviously. Still doesn't account for about £300,000 worth of sales.

This post has been edited by djchapsticks: 02 February 2012 - 23:34

[AberDon]

Don of the South, on 02 February 2012 - 22:16, said:

Not to mention we then sold him to Middlesbrough for about 500k

As for Aberdeen I'm not 100% sure really

06/07 - £25k - I think that was for Jonathan Kurrant? (God knows what he's doing now) or maybe a small fee for De Visscher?

07/08 - £106k - A hundred grand and our players in consisted of Derek Young, McNamara, Stuart Duff and Dave Bus?? Nae wonder Jimmy got sacked

08-09 - £453k - That was Mulgrew, Wright and Aluko - Other two both good signings but 100k for Tommy Wright has to be the worst signing we have ever made as a club

09-10 - £81k - compo for McArdle maybe - or nominal fee for Magennis

10-11 - £85k - no idea?

Despite some horrific signings its an overall 900k profit. Plus we've already sold Foster for £250k(ish) and Grimmer for £400k(ish) this season - can't complain too much.

I think we had to pay compensation for Chalali.

[HanoMaSano]

Akpo Sodje, on 02 February 2012 - 21:16, said:

Has anyone got wage figures from the last 5 years? Be interesting to see how much our jokers have "earned" and if it is the 4th highest.

Using the ever handy SPL Football Finances you can get most of the figures. There isn't a full set of figures for 2010 on the site, but the data which is available doesn't back this up.

The lack of 2010 data for most clubs does skew the averages very slightly, but since 2006 Hibs look to be fairly rooted in 5th place.

I have only included the 8 clubs that have been in the SPL for the entire period, the only thing that surprises me about the data is that Kilmarnock are above United. This can be explained by the fact that Killie's figures being slightly different than the other 7 clubs by tying their Hotel staff and football staff wages together. There's no way to know if the removal of the Hotel staff wages would drop Killie to 7th (or indeed 8th) - my ill informed guess would put them around the same level as 'Well and Utd.


|------------|-2006-|-2007-|-2008-|- 2009-|-2010-|-AVG--|
|------------|------|------|------|------ |------|------|
|-Celtic-----|- 32 -|- 36 -|- 39 -|- 39 --|- 36 -|-36.4-|
|-Rangers----|- 28 -|- 24 -|- 34 -|- 31 --|- 28 -|-29.0-|
|-Hearts-----|- 10 -|-12.5-|-11.3-|-10.5--|------|-11.1-|
|-Aberdeen---|- 4.3-|- 5.2-|- 5.9-|- 5.8--|------|-5.30-|
|-Hibs-------|- 3.7-|- 4.1-|- 4.6-|- 4.7--|- 4.8-|-4.38-|
|-Kilmarnock-|- 3.3-|- 3.9-|- 3.8-|- 4.1--|------|-3.78-|
|-Dundee Utd-|- 2.8-|- 2.6-|- 3.3-|- 3.6--|------|-3.08-|
|-Motherwell-|- 2.4-|- 2.4-|- 3.4-|- 3.4--|------|-2.90-|
|---------------------------------------- --------------|


PS. Apologies for the slightly dodgily drawn table!


EDIT: if anybody feels like correcting any of my arithmetic feel free

This post has been edited by HanoMaSano: 03 February 2012 - 11:38

[GorgieRoad]

HanoMaSano, on 03 February 2012 - 11:35, said:

Using the ever handy SPL Football Finances you can get most of the figures. There isn't a full set of figures for 2010 on the site, but the data which is available doesn't back this up.

The lack of 2010 data for most clubs does skew the averages very slightly, but since 2006 Hibs look to be fairly rooted in 5th place.

I have only included the 8 clubs that have been in the SPL for the entire period, the only thing that surprises me about the data is that Kilmarnock are above United. This can be explained by the fact that Killie's figures being slightly different than the other 7 clubs by tying their Hotel staff and football staff wages together. There's no way to know if the removal of the Hotel staff wages would drop Killie to 7th (or indeed 8th) - my ill informed guess would put them around the same level as 'Well and Utd.


|------------|-2006-|-2007-|-2008-|- 2009-|-2010-|-AVG--|
|------------|------|------|------|------ |------|------|
|-Celtic-----|- 32 -|- 36 -|- 39 -|- 39 --|- 36 -|-36.4-|
|-Rangers----|- 28 -|- 24 -|- 34 -|- 31 --|- 28 -|-29.0-|
|-Hearts-----|- 10 -|-12.5-|-11.3-|-10.5--|------|-11.1-|
|-Aberdeen---|- 4.3-|- 5.2-|- 5.9-|- 5.8--|------|-5.30-|
|-Hibs-------|- 3.7-|- 4.1-|- 4.6-|- 4.7--|- 4.8-|-4.38-|
|-Kilmarnock-|- 3.3-|- 3.9-|- 3.8-|- 4.1--|------|-3.78-|
|-Dundee Utd-|- 2.8-|- 2.6-|- 3.3-|- 3.6--|------|-3.08-|
|-Motherwell-|- 2.4-|- 2.4-|- 3.4-|- 3.4--|------|-2.90-|
|---------------------------------------- --------------|

PS. Apologies for the slightly dodgily drawn table!
EDIT: if anybody feels like correcting any of my arithmetic feel free

We were spending 11.3 million on wages when we finished 8th in the league. Although on the up side we managed to finish 2nd in the league above Rangers while spending just over a third of their wages.

I suspect we've probably got that down to around 7 or 8 million now since Karipidis, Aguiar, Palazuelos etc. have all left us since the end of 2009, and by the end of the summer I wouldn't be surprised if we have got it to around Aberdeen's level or just higher.

Edited to add: Motherwell have done unbelievably with the wages available to them in the last 4 years!

This post has been edited by GorgieRoad: 03 February 2012 - 12:27

[Willie Gibson]

HanoMaSano, on 02 February 2012 - 10:51, said:

In fairness, most of the criticism of Romanov's spending has been in relation to wages, not transfer fees.

120% wages to turnover ratio does not lie.

Madness.

The money we have paid out on rubbish is frightening.

We gave Nade,Kingston,jose something like 32,000 between them a week and we are still paying top dollar to Obua

I read over on kickback that the club wanted him to tear up his contract

Also,

If i had posted the above on Kickback some trumpet would on playing the Black card

[Swello]

GorgieRoad, on 03 February 2012 - 12:26, said:

Edited to add: Motherwell have done unbelievably with the wages available to them in the last 4 years!

And so have Dundee United you would have to say - they have been paying very similar to us it seems - I would have assumed it was more. I assume Killie's is inflated by cleaners and reception staff from the Hotel as I don't believe that they are paying football wages at a higher level than 'Well or Utd - I'd expect them to be in line.

On the other hand - Aberdeen have been getting appalling value for money judging by that....

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Willie Gibson, on 03 February 2012 - 12:58, said:

Madness.

The money we have paid out on rubbish is frightening.

We gave Nade,Kingston,jose something like 32,000 between them a week and we are still paying top dollar to Obua

I read over on kickback that the club wanted him to tear up his contract

Also,

If i had posted the above on Kickback some trumpet would on playing the Black card

Racist post IMO

[TheTodd]

Akpo Sodje, on 01 February 2012 - 22:25, said:

That's feckin unbelievable. Even with the new stand and training ground we're earning far more than we're spending.

You have to remember we had run up a horrific debt raked up in the 90's and early 00's which these fees mostly helped remove. If we had kept all those inbound transfer fees in a tin under the bed I'd agree with you, but that money went straight to the bank.

[Zeus]

Willie Gibson, on 03 February 2012 - 12:58, said:

Madness.

The money we have paid out on rubbish is frightening.

We gave Nade,Kingston,jose something like 32,000 between them a week and we are still paying top dollar to Obua

I read over on kickback that the club wanted him to tear up his contract

Also,

If i had posted the above on Kickback some trumpet would on playing the Black card