[Perthboy]

I understand there is an East Region meeting tomorrow night of some sort. Does anyone know if league reconstruction is to be discussed and if so what are the proposals?

[HibeeJibee]

Burnieman had an interesting plan which (IIRC; not 100%) involved 2 region-wide divisions of 16 clubs each and 2 'uber'-districts below, plus scrapping most of the local cups. Did that get anywhere?

[Cowdenjimmy]

There are to be meetings held by the 3 regions tomorrow night (North, Central, South) to discuss league reconstruction and put a proposal forward for the AGM in June. The Central meeting is in Kelty, I'm nightshift so cant make it.

[Perthboy]

Do you know what the proposals are?

[Cowdenjimmy]

Perthboy, on 30 January 2012 - 18:14, said:

Do you know what the proposals are?

not entirely sure, other clubs will have other idea's in mind. We at Lochgelly are in support of introducing play offs at the end of the season. The biggest problem at present is only 1 side gets promoted to the premier division from the North, Central, South regional divisions. There has to be something brought in where the 2nd place sides have a chance of promotion. So we'd like to see the 2nd place side in each division along with the 4th bottom side in the premier league go into play offs at the end of the season with either 2 legged or 1 leg semi finals with a 2 legged final. Therefore the current regions would still stay the same with no clubs being landed with bigger travelling distances throughout the league season.

[Perthboy]

Cowdenjimmy, on 30 January 2012 - 19:30, said:

not entirely sure, other clubs will have other idea's in mind. We at Lochgelly are in support of introducing play offs at the end of the season. The biggest problem at present is only 1 side gets promoted to the premier division from the North, Central, South regional divisions. There has to be something brought in where the 2nd place sides have a chance of promotion. So we'd like to see the 2nd place side in each division along with the 4th bottom side in the premier league go into play offs at the end of the season with either 2 legged or 1 leg semi finals with a 2 legged final. Therefore the current regions would still stay the same with no clubs being landed with bigger travelling distances throughout the league season.

A change has to come in, surely. The more ambitious regional sides have to push for it as i don't think any reconstruction will effect the Superleague sides and to a lesser extent the Premier League sides.
It's the propsals that might be the hardest thing to agree on. What you've said above is a step forward no doubt but should there be a more radical shake-up like the one proposed by Burnieman in th summer.
I feel more teams will need a hell of a lot of persuasion for a radical shake up and the play-offs may carry more weight.
I like the idea of a 3rd inter-regional league below the Premier and then 2 divisions or a 16 team Super and Premier but again it's asking a lot of change for some "set in their ways" committee men who would rather talk about having enough pegs in changing rooms.
What are the chances of all 3 regions coming to the combined meeting, whenever that may be, with the SAME set of proposals????
Will the "smaller teams" in tomorrow's regional meetings be "persuaded" by the "local mafia" to vote their way????
It would be great to be a fly on the wall when the full east region discuss each regional proposal on their take for the GOOD OF THE GAME in the East!!!

[HibeeJibee]

Play-offs without changing the league format would help... and would be less radical than the old proposal, which involved more travelling and an extra tier

12
12
14
13-13

or than Burnie's proposal, which involved more travelling and scrapping quite a lot of cups

16
16
16-16

... but inevitably, play-offs alone would also 'fix' things less than wider reconstruction.

[neutral observer]

Cowdenjimmy, on 30 January 2012 - 19:30, said:

not entirely sure, other clubs will have other idea's in mind. We at Lochgelly are in support of introducing play offs at the end of the season. The biggest problem at present is only 1 side gets promoted to the premier division from the North, Central, South regional divisions. There has to be something brought in where the 2nd place sides have a chance of promotion. So we'd like to see the 2nd place side in each division along with the 4th bottom side in the premier league go into play offs at the end of the season with either 2 legged or 1 leg semi finals with a 2 legged final. Therefore the current regions would still stay the same with no clubs being landed with bigger travelling distances throughout the league season.

3 teams getting relegated from a league of only 12 (premier) is already pretty brutal on the teams trying to survive without adding another possible spot, if however you extended the premier to say 15 teams (1 more team from each region) then it wouldn't be so bad.

[Burnie_man]

I doubt they're discussing 16-16-16-16, the luddites would never vote for it as it requires a bit of vision.

This post has been edited by Burnie_man: 30 January 2012 - 21:43

[HibeeJibee]

neutral observer, on 30 January 2012 - 21:37, said:

3 teams getting relegated from a league of only 12 (premier) is already pretty brutal on the teams trying to survive without adding another possible spot, if however you extended the premier to say 15 teams (1 more team from each region) then it wouldn't be so bad.

Going to 14 would surely suffice.

Currently the bottom looks like this:

Quote

9th
10th... Relegated
11th... Relegated
12th... Relegated

and it would become this:

Quote

9th
10th
11th... Play-off
12th... Relegated
13th... Relegated
14th... Relegated

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 30 January 2012 - 21:55

[Perthboy]

I'm of the opinion that leaving the leagues the same but introducing "play-offs" isn't enough of a step. 16 team Premier with 15th and 16th relegated with 13th and 14th in a play off with runners up in a new 2 division regional set up.

[buffty]

has anyone thought about the extra grand or so for the travelling expense this would cost teams per season.

[Perthboy]

Which teams do you speak of for example?

[Whitswit]

buffty, on 30 January 2012 - 22:51, said:

has anyone thought about the extra grand or so for the travelling expense this would cost teams per season.

Luddite!

[The Old Northerner]

buffty, on 30 January 2012 - 22:51, said:

has anyone thought about the extra grand or so for the travelling expense this would cost teams per season.

Yup. The introduction of a 3rd regional tier this season would have seen Haddington's travelling mileage increase by 50% with half the games over 60 miles distant and the furthest (which would have been Montrose) over 100 miles way. We voted for the reconstruction. Direct promotion in an unchanged system would be only slightly less burdensome travel-wise but no-one suggests that teams should forego that chance because of cost

This post has been edited by The Old Northerner: 30 January 2012 - 23:36

[Perthboy]

The Old Northerner, on 30 January 2012 - 23:34, said:

Yup. The introduction of a 3rd regional tier this season would have seen Haddington's travelling mileage increase by 50% with half the games over 60 miles distant and the furthest (which would have been Montrose) over 100 miles way. We voted for the reconstruction. Direct promotion in an unchanged system would be only slightly less burdensome travel-wise but no-one suggests that teams should forego that chance because of cost

Surely the travelling issue would be swings and roundabouts!!
If it went to a 12 12 14 13 13 as proposed in the summer then travelling need not be that much of a difference.
In the 2 regional leagues for example(North and South was it to be called?). The North teams would lose Montrose and Kirrie to the 14 team Premier 2 but gain only Newburgh, Luncarty and Bankfoot(assuming Kinnoull and Jeanfield finish top 4). Would that involve much more travelling for the Dundee teams? Granted maybe Arbroath/Brechin teams but surley the travelling costs wouldn't change drastically.
The South league with the added Fife teams in with it....... take Rosyth for example. They have 4 trips to Perthshire per season at a round trip of say 65miles(300 in total). Would they be much worse off with 1 trip to Dunbar and trips to Tranent and Haddington(these 2 teams might even be in the Premier 2).
The teams South of the bridge would probably suffer most but as The Old Northener said, his team still voted for reconstruction!!

There are a hell of a lot of frustrated regional sides with fantastic facilities who are chomping at progression and i think the current system curtails them. All i'd ask is for the powers that be to make it easier to join an inter regional league, whether it be in the format above or 16-16-16-16 as proposed by Burnieman.
Mind you, i suppose it's the clubs who vote for it so we need to spread the word.

[HTG]

I suspect the most radical item on the agenda may be the reintroduction of at least one local cup because - contrary to the doom on the summer football thread - a hell of a lot of clubs could run out of games in early to mid April. But there may have been more.

[the original livi]

HTG, on 31 January 2012 - 09:00, said:

I suspect the most radical item on the agenda may be the reintroduction of at least one local cup because - contrary to the doom on the summer football thread - a hell of a lot of clubs could run out of games in early to mid April. But there may have been more.

they are thinking of doing that this season, 1 who is going to sponsor the cup they had a hard enough time when it was played for before. 2 what about the teams that have a back log of fixtures

[HibeeJibee]

Would it/they have to be sponsored?

Sides with backlogs could be allowed to opt-out, or could give squad players run-outs.

[the original livi]

HibeeJibee, on 31 January 2012 - 11:09, said:

Would it/they have to be sponsored?

Sides with backlogs could be allowed to opt-out, or could give squad players run-outs.

they are up on games played over the winter period (compared with last 2 years)
they forget cups that are still being played for ie the fife and lothians , east of scotland,
the f&l the latest round only 7 ties have been played so far backlog there to!

[HibeeJibee]

Ultimately there'll only be another cup if the clubs themselves think they need another cup, which based on current tables or cups (and the fact the Fife & Tayside doesn't exist) may well be the case.

They could add the Fife & Tayside and a South district cup, or 1 district cup in each of the 3 districts. If backlogs were worse in a certain district, they could not bother.

Clubs with backlogs could be allowed to opt-out, or could field weakened XIs.



EDIT:

These are I think the remaining games for South district clubs. Figures are league games remaining / then minimum-maximum cup games remaining (jc = Junior Cup, flc = Fife & Lothians Cup, ec = East of Scotland Cup).

Quote

Armadale... 10 + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec
Arniston... 11 + 1-8 jc + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec
Bathgate... 9 + 1-5 flc
Blackburn... 18

Bo'ness... 15 + 1-7 jc + 1-5 flc
Bonnyrigg... 12 + 1-7 jc + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec
Broxburn... 12 + 1-5 flc
Camelon... 11 + 1-5 flc + 1-4 ec

Dalkeith... 16
Dunbar... 15 + 1-5 flc
Edin Utd... 14
Falkirk... 15

Fauldhouse... 16 + 1-4 flc + 1-4 ec
Haddington... 18 + 1-4 flc + 1-4 ec
Harthill... 15
Linlithgow... 10 + 1-4 flc

Livingston... 17 + 1-4 flc
Newtongrange... 10 + 1-5 flc
Musselburgh... 11 + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec
Penicuik... 13

Pumpherston... 17
Sauchie... 15 + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec
Tranent... 15 + 1-4 flc
Spartans Jnrs... 15 + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec

Stoneyburn... 17
West Calder... 18 + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec
Whitburn.. 18 + 1-5 flc + 1-5 ec

There are 19 weekends left in the season (to 2nd Sat in June), and 28 weekends plus light midweeks.

These are the minimums and maximums arranged in order.

Quote

Minimums
10... Bathgate
11... Linlithgow, Newtongrange
12... Armadale
13... Broxburn, Penicuik
14... Arniston, Camelon, Edin Utd
15... Bonnyrigg, Falkirk, Harthill
16... Dalkeith, Dunbar, Tranent
17... Bo'ness, Musselburgh, Pumpherston, Spartans, Stoneyburn
----------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ ------------------------
18... Blackburn, Fauldhouse, Livingston
==========================================================
20... Haddington, West Calder, Whitburn

Maximums
13... Penicuik
14... Bathgate, Edin Utd, Linlithgow
15... Falkirk, Harthill, Newtongrange
16... Dalkeith
17... Broxburn, Pumpherston, Stoneyburn
18... Blackburn
19... Tranent
20... Armadale, Camelon, Dunbar
21... Livingston, Musselburgh
24... Fauldhouse
----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ --------------------
25... Sauchie, Spartans
26... Haddington
27... Bo'ness
28... West Calder, Whitburn
===========================================================
29... Arniston, Bonnyrigg

Obviously the maximum figures are slightly misleading - not all clubs can progress in cups, weaker/lower-level clubs will tend not to progress far, replaying in every Junior Cup round is unlikely, etc.

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 31 January 2012 - 12:50

[Burnie_man]

Burnie_man, on 30 January 2012 - 21:42, said:

I doubt they're discussing 16-16-16-16, the luddites would never vote for it as it requires a bit of vision.

Just to clarify, my idea is 16 Super, 16 Premier then 15/17 or 16/16 split between North/South Districts, not 4 region wide leagues of 16.

Not that it matters as its too radical.

[jaggywaggy]

Are you going to the meeting tonight Burnie?

[tamthebam]

Club licensing is potentially due to hit the East of Scotland League clubs and there's been loose talk of forming a semi-Pro South of Scotland League, an invitation to which may or may not be afforded to junior clubs...

anyone heard any rumours...?

[Joethistle]

Superleague is fine with 12 I think.