[callum-ayr]

Kitty_Boy, on 30 January 2012 - 17:00, said:

Our U19s and U17s are 'full time' (YTS or equivalent).

Brian Reid stands on the touchline telling them they're not good enough.

Best post I have seen in ages.

[Aufc]

scotty 2 hotty, on 30 January 2012 - 16:51, said:

I get the same impression with our mob. Bobby Barr's always on Twitter posting about how much he loves Gary Bollan after he's given the squad another day off from training.

I can't decide what is worse. The fact the players get a lot of days off or the fact you follow bobby barr on twitter.

[Sludden123]

aidan-bufc, on 30 January 2012 - 16:45, said:

What does the manager do on the days that players don't train?

He probably reads a book on football formations. If he does I can't wait until he gets to the chapter called 4-4-2 formation.

[utdtillidie]

aidan-bufc, on 30 January 2012 - 16:45, said:

What does the manager do on the days that players don't train?

He has another job. Was speaking to a mate on Saturday night and they said he works with an estate agents. My mate said he's not well liked as he thinks he's 'it', whatever 'it' is.

[scotty 2 hotty]

Aufc, on 30 January 2012 - 19:56, said:

I can't decide what is worse. The fact the players get a lot of days off or the fact you follow bobby barr on twitter.

Cool story bro, needs more underground sex dungeons n shit.

[Aufc]

scotty 2 hotty, on 30 January 2012 - 23:34, said:

Cool story bro, needs more underground sex dungeons n shit.

That "cool story bro" patter is awful.

[scotty 2 hotty]

Aufc, on 31 January 2012 - 13:27, said:

That "cool story bro" patter is awful.

Cool story bro, needs more African pimps with Northern European hookers n shit.

[rorymac7]

Reid used to be a manager at Clyde properties (in Hamilton I think), my Aunt and Uncle own the Ayr branch as a franchise and told me they had spoken to him. However, when we were promoted for the 09/10 season, Reid resigned and took over full time at the club. He stayed full-time despite the team being relegated but I don't know whether he works elsewhere that training is only two nights a week. When we were promoted 2 years ago, a few of the more prosperous young players and some of the better players were brought on full-time. But as has been well documented in recent weeks, that is not the case this year. The under-19s that are "full-time" are at Kilmarnock college doing various courses, most likely HND Football or HND sports coaching, other students from the football course are invited along to train with Brian Reid once a week (Wednesday I think) as part of the course, the training is quite often taken in by Mark Roberts, Chris Smith, John Robertson and other players with no full-time commitments, this also helps the youngsters with improvements in the game as the senior players act as mentors and they get an extra spot of training out of it. The likes of Chris Smith and other players without jobs outside the club, train during the day by themselves, and John Robertson is actually a personal trainer hence his physical strength. I'd like to think we will go full-time should we avoid relegation, as in reality part-time teams cannot survive in this division, our only hope of survival is the cash boost from the cup run and the fact that Queens and Raith are also struggling with poor teams the same as ourselves.

[young buck]

I believe Brian Reid is psychologically affected by having a part time and not the players.It appears to me the players have the discipline to stick to a game plan which is a massive quality in a player. It shows discipline and good communication. They also have the fitness to play for 120 minutes on a big park. Every week they are being sent out to play in a neagtive fashion because Reid doesn't believe in them and thinks it plays to our strengths to be negative. If he showed a bit more faith or belief in them then they may get the chance to score, hell we may even win a game. The team is still short of players and the midfield needs strengthened but he is not giving us a chance with these tactics which are not for this league. We need to admit this before progressing as we were found out at hampden by giving a team like kilmarnock too much respect in a semi final and guilty of the same at home against relegation rivals. Unacceptable behaviour and it would be interesting to hear what the players themselves think off the record because this week we have found out what everyone else thinks

[NE63 exile]

Quite frankly if first division clubs screwed the loaf and reverted back to the status they mostly had 20-25 years ago and reverted back to being part-time then the game would be in a much healthier state up here. In-fact going back into mid-to-late 80s I'm sure there were a couple of Premier League clubs who were part-time. Granted they probably went straight back down but they wouldn't go saddled with mega debt around their necks for years to come.

I know this won't be the case at every first division club but I know of one player who signed for a first division club this season on a full-time deal and had to take a night time job because the full-time wages he's picking up are that low. Defeats the whole object if players are having to go out and work at night if that's the case.

A couple of teams have proved in the past you can be reasonably successful and compete in the league being part-time. Time for a few others to take a reality check.

[vikingTON]

NE63 exile, on 31 January 2012 - 17:36, said:

A couple of teams have proved in the past you can be reasonably successful and compete in the league being part-time.

Such as? I can't remember the last fully part-time side at this level who haven't been hilariously poor cannon-fodder.

[Cliche Guevara]

QoS and Ayr - although it's probably a bit of a moot point really.

If Ayr, Raith, QoS and Livi - for a start - were part-time it would probably more reflect the financial capability of those clubs at the moment. Probably add Hamilton, Partick and Morton to that fairly soon, in all honesty.

[honestboy]

rorymac7, on 31 January 2012 - 15:41, said:

Reid used to be a manager at Clyde properties (in Hamilton I think), my Aunt and Uncle own the Ayr branch as a franchise and told me they had spoken to him. However, when we were promoted for the 09/10 season, Reid resigned and took over full time at the club. He stayed full-time despite the team being relegated but I don't know whether he works elsewhere that training is only two nights a week. When we were promoted 2 years ago, a few of the more prosperous young players and some of the better players were brought on full-time. But as has been well documented in recent weeks, that is not the case this year. The under-19s that are "full-time" are at Kilmarnock college doing various courses, most likely HND Football or HND sports coaching, other students from the football course are invited along to train with Brian Reid once a week (Wednesday I think) as part of the course, the training is quite often taken in by Mark Roberts, Chris Smith, John Robertson and other players with no full-time commitments, this also helps the youngsters with improvements in the game as the senior players act as mentors and they get an extra spot of training out of it. The likes of Chris Smith and other players without jobs outside the club, train during the day by themselves, and John Robertson is actually a personal trainer hence his physical strength. I'd like to think we will go full-time should we avoid relegation, as in reality part-time teams cannot survive in this division, our only hope of survival is the cash boost from the cup run and the fact that Queens and Raith are also struggling with poor teams the same as ourselves.

reid is at the training on a tues and thursday there is a few 19s and more 17s from the academy the rest are made up with college boys ..robertson takes the academy boys to the gym to work on building them up

[grazza]

It is sad to say but we are living in a false economy and long term it will be unrealistic to expect most 2nd tier teams to be full time. Of course the teams at the top end that are aiming for promotion in the short term will fidn a way to fund it. If the SPL expanded this would probably hasten the change. To be honest I think we make far too much fuss over preserving full time football when it might be better in some cases not too. Of course the top tier needs to eb full time but look at any country of our size in Europe and a few bigger and many of them only half full time football at the top tier. The likes of the Nordic nations have outperformed us obviously facilities help but they do face colder winters than we do so maybe that sort of evens out. We have guys in the first division veterans who are basically now journeymen decent players and yes teams need experience but not neccesarily on a full time wage. The less full time football there is the more likely our players are to fight harder to get spotted by an SPL team or get a full time gig abroad. This might be on an upward spiral and they eventually got from 3rd or 2nd tier English football to a higher level or older guys go to America, Australia, Asia, Cyprus, Malta etc to get a long holiday and pay check. More of these guys go the more spots that become available for younger players and with less or no full time wages on a league wide basis maybe fans can be treated as customers and charged a reasonable entry fee on par with going to see a movie or a couple of pints. Football is of course the biggest sport in Scotland by some way but still we have about 20 full time teams. Rugby Union has 2 (probably subsidised by SRU) and ice hockey has 4 (though some non imports probably have a job and the seasn is 7 months so even imports will often have summer jobs).

The point the original poster was making I think it is fine for the YTS youth guys to work that way maybe study in the day and train at night but older players have commitments and built up careers. If a players is good enough at a young age he will make it and can probably keep studying /apprenticeship until age of 20 or so. I would like to think though that any senior league SPL/SFL the players are professional in that even if they cannot train with team more than 2 nights a week they are averaging at least an hour a day in the gym and on a strict diet (with the occasional night out in moderation at the right time).

[Skyline Drifter]

vikingTON, on 31 January 2012 - 19:00, said:

Such as? I can't remember the last fully part-time side at this level who haven't been hilariously poor cannon-fodder.

We were a part time side when promoted in 2002 and didn't go completely full time until 2007, though we were effectively full time for about a year before. Never the less we did pretty well in that time as a part time side, finishing 5th, 5th, 4th and 8th in those first four seasons. The last one we were fortunate to finish above two other part time sides in Stranraer and Brechin but there's no way we could be termed "cannon fodder" in the first three.

I don't think anyone part-time has survived a season since though.

[Cliche Guevara]

Because they are usually village teams on a sabatical from the seaside leagues, paying their players double figure wages. The part-time issue is a red-herring. If those sides had been full-time they would still have gone down, as they clearly had the weakest squads irrespective of contract status.

[NE63 exile]

vikingTON, on 31 January 2012 - 19:00, said:

Such as? I can't remember the last fully part-time side at this level who haven't been hilariously poor cannon-fodder.

QoS under John Connolly did well enough for two or three seasons. Winning the Challenge Cup too. Arbroath and Alloa came up for a couple of seasons and did reasonably well in their first term. Cowdenbeath did ok last Saturday, they certainly competed for most of the season. Granted I'll give you Brechin, Stranraer & Stirling last season.


But apart from going further in debt what are about 75% of division one clubs gaining in being full-time.

[Zen Archer]

utdtillidie, on 30 January 2012 - 23:09, said:

He has another job. Was speaking to a mate on Saturday night and they said he works with an estate agents. My mate said he's not well liked as he thinks he's 'it', whatever 'it' is.

 it.png (105.62K)
Number of downloads: 0

[Skyline Drifter]

NE63 exile, on 31 January 2012 - 21:40, said:

QoS under John Connolly did well enough for two or three seasons. Winning the Challenge Cup too. Arbroath and Alloa came up for a couple of seasons and did reasonably well in their first term. Cowdenbeath did ok last Saturday, they certainly competed for most of the season. Granted I'll give you Brechin, Stranraer & Stirling last season.

Connolly did two seasons part time before moving on to St Johnstone. Iain Scott did a third.

Arbroath did well to stay up the season we were promoted but they were absolutely atrocious and marooned in their second season. Alloa never stayed up, though they ran St Mirren very close in their season up.

Cowdenbeath were never out of the bottom two after the opening three months of last season for all they briefly threatened to relegate County.

Considering Stranraer were 8th for most of their one season up they probably made a better fist of it than either Alloa or Cowden, though they had a weaker field to play against too.

It's probably also worth mentioning that Raith Rovers were about 50/50 part time / full time when they stayed up a couple of seasons ago. Though VT made a point of stressing "fully part time" so that they didn't count.

This post has been edited by Skyline Drifter: 31 January 2012 - 22:39

[vikingTON]

NE63 exile, on 31 January 2012 - 21:40, said:

QoS under John Connolly did well enough for two or three seasons. Winning the Challenge Cup too. Arbroath and Alloa came up for a couple of seasons and did reasonably well in their first term.

That is no side since 2004/5, and notably, no side since Morton returned to this division, thereby filling another of the natural full-time spaces.

Quote

But apart from going further in debt what are about 75% of division one clubs gaining in being full-time.

Having better players, playing in better, fitter squads, with better organisation and opportunity for managers to work harder with the players in training.

Which all amounts to a pretty much secure survival every season, which is exactly why First Division clubs choose to remain full-time, or like Raith, seek to move to full-time as soon as possible. Part-time doesn't cut it and clubs like Partick and Morton have no interest in yo-yoing into the seaside leagues.

This post has been edited by vikingTON: 31 January 2012 - 22:53

[Kitty_Boy]

I do wonder if our approach is all wrong.

By my reckoning, Falkirk have 6 'Senior' players: McGovern, Dods, Scobbie, Miller, Weatherston & El Allagui and the rest of their squad is made up of (very talented) teenagers.

We on the other-hand have a squad of 14 part-time 'senior' players: Cuthbert, Tiffoney, J. Robertson, Campbell, Smith, Malone, McGowan, Trouten, Geggan, Ross Robertson, Wardlaw, Moffat, Roberts, Higgins. This is supplemented by young players on loan: McKernon, Dodd, Thomsett, Dyer.

Wouldn't we be better have a core of full time players, supplemented by the our 'Pro Youth players' and becoming full time? Could the wages of 14 part-timers be better spent on 6, 7 full time players and would going forward on this basis, as a full time side, make us more competitive?

I realise our Pro Youth players are not of the standard of Falkirk's (well, I presume they're not...) - I guess Falkirk's players will be on better wages - but we have, I think, Armstrong, Fisher, Kelly, Crawford, Shankland, Moore, Paterson all pro youth, none of whom are getting a chance under the current regime.

Presently, there is one huge obsticle in the way: Brian Reid. But I think the fans would be a lot happier if we took this approach and saw some of our own youngsters getting an opportunity. It might even give us the opportunity to cash in on some of these players in the future.

[D.Armour Appreciation Society]

Kitty_Boy, on 01 February 2012 - 12:07, said:

Wouldn't we be better have a core of full time players, supplemented by the our 'Pro Youth players' and becoming full time? Could the wages of 14 part-timers be better spent on 6, 7 full time players and would going forward on this basis, as a full time side, make us more competitive?

Pretty sure early twa Rabs had a full-time/part-time set up, with 4 coaches and various Training days. Think it failed supremely. Our issue at Ayr United is Facilities, we cannot have full-time players at our current facilities, and IF we are to improve our facilities before they fall down, we will have to do so whilst maintaining a Part-Time team.

IMO it's the fans who have to be educated ( there I've said it ) and if the nonsense ( there I've said it ) surrounding Bodog and their 'financial gift' is anything to go by then.....................

[honestboy]

callum-ayr, on 30 January 2012 - 17:31, said:

Best post I have seen in ages.

lol tbh he doesnt say much to them ..but on an other note the youth teams train more and harder than the first team ..the youth boys train 3 nights a week plus some of them train during the day aswell ....first team do 2 nights and its hardly high impact stuff