[MUSSEYBOY]

There has been plenty of talk regarding the match programme that Musselburgh Athletic have been producing this season.

As many people on here know, I have been producing the content that goes into the programme and have been doing so for the last 4 years - 41 programmes produced so I feel Rather than sit back and say nothing, or tell anyone thats not happy just not to buy one i think it is better to explain the work that goes on by the club to produce it.

First - To any Musselburgh fans who choose to come on here and have a go at it, can i kindly point out that every year for the last four years at the start of every season there has been a message put on the clubs website asking for programme feed back and comments. - Pretty much all the feedback has been introduced and at the start of this season noone took the chance to offer any ideas or help so as you do you assume all is well.

The price of the programme for a colour programme and one which is for a big match i thought was fair. I think that cup matches especially Scottish should carry more interest and to cover that more were produced - 25 of which were sold online prior to the game. Normally league matches are a pound, however i felt this was worthy of the extra 50p and although only a few have stated this to be a bit much for junior level - it maybe the case that I was wrong. - However it should also be added that in the last few seasons i have bought programmes for a pound that were produced for a prosponed match, 4 pages of back and white not stappled, 16 black and white pages with more ads than a Leith phone box etc etc I did think it was a bit better than that. But again it looks like I made a mistake.

Some people say that a programme is just a donation to the club and no-one cares what it looks like, however i disagree and have always tried to improve it week on week and do care what the supporters are given. When we started I had many chats with the few clubs in the East who produced them, every year a copy of each of the programmes produced gets sent down south and feed back is given by folk who have won awards for their clubs programmes. - Only a few weeks ago the recent match programme for a league game was given a good feed back score by a well respected football servant.

Team lines, The last 3 seasons have always had the back page dedicated to team lines. Feedback has mainly been that info on the opposition and sometimes Musselburgh hasnt been correct - for example the goal keeper might have been sold the night before and 3 new players signed on the Thursday etc or that the info obtained from the club we were playing was missing some players. Sometimes the club you are playing dont respond for team lines so you are getting them 3rd hand and again some players names spelt wrong because of dodgy hand writing.
Some have asked why at least i havent predicted what the team will be, again for the reasons stated above, - looking over the last 80 games for Musselburgh - they have kept the same starting line up only once so even Mystic Meg would have her work cut out! this weekend for example you would have had 3 names missing as the club signed 3 players on Wednesday
So in order to let people copy down the correct team - numbers 1-17 are left empty on the back page there is also enough space to get the players signature rather than have a blank page inside the programme as some league teams do.

It is a pitty when mentioning the above that no one cared to say that inside the programme 2 pages were dedicated to our visitors team giving a little info on the players to watch out for. Information kindly given by an Auchinleck official after a request by me. My Mrs watched the recent game with Clydebank brought the notes back as I was at another match. Every week the club we are playing are emailed for any information they wish to put in the programme so far this season only 4 have taken the invitation.

Our programme goes to the printer every Monday night as both he and I have only limited time to spend, sometimes the fixture is unknown until late on the Saturday night which doesnt give much time to waste.

When you consider that our programmes carry a review of the previous weeks matches and a preview for the Saturdays matches, together with fixtures and tables etc there is not too many things that can be done before hand. A quiz yes and sometimes the adverts if the sponsor is the same but with limited time it isnt easy.

I hope that this at least gives some answers to the questions posted on some of the other (shocking) threads. I am really dissapointed that many of our own supporters decided to choose this website to give their views rather than contact me direct - any feedback given is always taken on board or a valid reason given as to why it is or how it is etc. The feedback from opposition fans is also important to me. I do take pride in the programme and the negative points are really dissapointing. I can only appologize to you and ask you to email me with your views so I can tend to each individual person.

My email address is ryank@blueyonder.co.uk - please give me time to respond as I have a full time job and 2 unpaid jobs. all programme related emails will be answered.

Thanks

Ryan

[cmontheloknow]

On team lines for opposition, before the internet people have to rely on phoning up the other team to get it. If the internet cannot provide an answer that still is a good alternative.

Contact details for all teams here: http://www.scottishf...s.cfm?page=1832

Even if the person cannot immediately help you, give a number or email address so they can return the call.

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 24 January 2012 - 07:27

[TFW]

Ryan, thanks for that very detailed response. My original remark was more tongue in cheek than anything else, but as it went on to generate some debate and get this inside view of things from yourself perhaps it's enlightened one or two people.
What does pee me off at times, and having spoken to the programme seller on the gate to ask the price she told me they'd not been £1.50 before, is that some clubs do take the opportunity to rip off fans when Talbot are in town because they know that a significant number of them will buy the programme. This was blatantly obvious at Edinburgh Utd this season when they charged £2 for an eight page programme, that had no team line ups and was full of inaccuracies, and had obviously been put together in somebody's bedroom the night before.
As someone who always buys multiple programmes for Junior Cup ties this does grate, but it's something I've come to terms with.....if we weren't successful people wouldn't rip us off...............and please don't think I'm levelling that accusation at yourself or Musselburgh!
Bought multiple copies of your original club programme called "Dribble" if I remember rightly about 15 years ago?

[Auld Heid]

Mussey Boy - I wasn't at the game and have not seen your programme - it may have been good or the worst programme in the World.

But what people tend to forget is the time and effort that individuals put into these programmes and time which is unpaid. A lot of junior games are at a weeks notice so not exactly a lot of time to chase up advertising, details on the opposition and articles etc. Especially if your working in a full time job.

I for one would never knock any individual who takes the time and effort to try and give something to the club he supports. If there is a programme on sale at a game I normally buy one regardless if it cost £1 or £1.50.

So as a neutral on this matter - well done and thank you for all your efforts, I'm sure there is plenty of people who fully appreciate your efforts and sod the keyboard warriors, who all know better and would do a better job than you.!!! (If only they could be ersed to get of their backsides and put a bit into their clubs - like yourself)

[Nero E. Oro]

was a decent enough effort at Mussey I thought. Didn't mind the missing team lines as I always assume them to be wrong anyway!

as for the price, an extra ten bob wasn't going to kill anyone, and Talbot sometimes charge extra for bigger games too, so glass houses and all that.

[musseygreen]

MUSSEYBOY, on 24 January 2012 - 01:40, said:

There has been plenty of talk regarding the match programme that Musselburgh Athletic have been producing this season.

As many people on here know, I have been producing the content that goes into the programme and have been doing so for the last 4 years - 41 programmes produced so I feel Rather than sit back and say nothing, or tell anyone thats not happy just not to buy one i think it is better to explain the work that goes on by the club to produce it.

First - To any Musselburgh fans who choose to come on here and have a go at it, can i kindly point out that every year for the last four years at the start of every season there has been a message put on the clubs website asking for programme feed back and comments. - Pretty much all the feedback has been introduced and at the start of this season noone took the chance to offer any ideas or help so as you do you assume all is well.

The price of the programme for a colour programme and one which is for a big match i thought was fair. I think that cup matches especially Scottish should carry more interest and to cover that more were produced - 25 of which were sold online prior to the game. Normally league matches are a pound, however i felt this was worthy of the extra 50p and although only a few have stated this to be a bit much for junior level - it maybe the case that I was wrong. - However it should also be added that in the last few seasons i have bought programmes for a pound that were produced for a prosponed match, 4 pages of back and white not stappled, 16 black and white pages with more ads than a Leith phone box etc etc I did think it was a bit better than that. But again it looks like I made a mistake.

Some people say that a programme is just a donation to the club and no-one cares what it looks like, however i disagree and have always tried to improve it week on week and do care what the supporters are given. When we started I had many chats with the few clubs in the East who produced them, every year a copy of each of the programmes produced gets sent down south and feed back is given by folk who have won awards for their clubs programmes. - Only a few weeks ago the recent match programme for a league game was given a good feed back score by a well respected football servant.

Team lines, The last 3 seasons have always had the back page dedicated to team lines. Feedback has mainly been that info on the opposition and sometimes Musselburgh hasnt been correct - for example the goal keeper might have been sold the night before and 3 new players signed on the Thursday etc or that the info obtained from the club we were playing was missing some players. Sometimes the club you are playing dont respond for team lines so you are getting them 3rd hand and again some players names spelt wrong because of dodgy hand writing.
Some have asked why at least i havent predicted what the team will be, again for the reasons stated above, - looking over the last 80 games for Musselburgh - they have kept the same starting line up only once so even Mystic Meg would have her work cut out! this weekend for example you would have had 3 names missing as the club signed 3 players on Wednesday
So in order to let people copy down the correct team - numbers 1-17 are left empty on the back page there is also enough space to get the players signature rather than have a blank page inside the programme as some league teams do.

It is a pitty when mentioning the above that no one cared to say that inside the programme 2 pages were dedicated to our visitors team giving a little info on the players to watch out for. Information kindly given by an Auchinleck official after a request by me. My Mrs watched the recent game with Clydebank brought the notes back as I was at another match. Every week the club we are playing are emailed for any information they wish to put in the programme so far this season only 4 have taken the invitation.

Our programme goes to the printer every Monday night as both he and I have only limited time to spend, sometimes the fixture is unknown until late on the Saturday night which doesnt give much time to waste.

When you consider that our programmes carry a review of the previous weeks matches and a preview for the Saturdays matches, together with fixtures and tables etc there is not too many things that can be done before hand. A quiz yes and sometimes the adverts if the sponsor is the same but with limited time it isnt easy.

I hope that this at least gives some answers to the questions posted on some of the other (shocking) threads. I am really dissapointed that many of our own supporters decided to choose this website to give their views rather than contact me direct - any feedback given is always taken on board or a valid reason given as to why it is or how it is etc. The feedback from opposition fans is also important to me. I do take pride in the programme and the negative points are really dissapointing. I can only appologize to you and ask you to email me with your views so I can tend to each individual person.

My email address is ryank@blueyonder.co.uk - please give me time to respond as I have a full time job and 2 unpaid jobs. all programme related emails will be answered.

Thanks

Ryan

Ryan
I know you put a lot of time and effort into producing the programme and doing other club related things.
What I posted was in response to a couple of earlier postings and I don't think I criticised the programme.
My original post on the matter is below.

Only person who can answer that is the person who produces the programmes. - I think you've covered everything
Been like that for a few games this season. Certainly not my preference. Even if the actual teams for the day aren't known the squads for both teams should be in it. - My opinion, certainly not a criticism.
Also, first time I remember a £1.50 programme for a game at Olivebank. - Fact. Again, not a criticism.

From a Musselburgh point of view it's usually the same home fans who buy them at Olivebank and if they didn't like it they wouldn't buy it, but they do.

[Nocko]

Personally I think we'll see even more programmes sold for £1.50 or £2 in the near future especially those who pay for printing.

Whether that's too much time will tell.

I know the effort that goes into a programme but one thing I always look for is squad details. That way you can number the players directly on the programme if you wish. Yes players will come and go but I'd say that's minimal each week.

[Jimmy Cairns]

For a game like Saturdays you'd expect to pay a bit more. And anyway, £1.50 is no exactly going to bankrupt someone. If it is, don't buy it.

Keep up the good work Ryan.

[Cowdenjimmy]

Nocko, on 24 January 2012 - 08:35, said:

Personally I think we'll see even more programmes sold for £1.50 or £2 in the near future especially those who pay for printing.

Whether that's too much time will tell.

I know the effort that goes into a programme but one thing I always look for is squad details. That way you can number the players directly on the programme if you wish. Yes players will come and go but I'd say that's minimal each week.

You could be right there Owen.
For the 1st 4 issues of this season i was doing the printing for the Lochgelly Albert programmes at home. They were in full colour and we were charging £1 for them. The cost of toner etc for my printer basically meant that we were making no profit whatsoever. We then decided to get our programmes printed for us and we were left with a choice, if they remained full colour we would have to increase the cover price to £1.50 and would still make no profit due to the printing costs. We decided to keep the cover in colour with the inside contents black and white so that we could keep the cover price at £1 and be making money out of it.
We are selling out every game now (50 copies) and on some occasions the number of progs available has easily outnumbered the crowd but we still manage to shift them. Our fans have told us that they would be prepared to pay £1.50 if the programme was in full colour, so something we might sit down with the printers and discuss for next season.

To all clubs that produce programmes of whatever standard they may be, keep up the good work.

[Font Of Information]

I would love to go full colour for our programme but printing cost prohibit it, we have to charge £1.50 as printing costs dictate it, I wish I could find a printer that could do 28 full colour pages for under £1.50 if you find somebody Jimmy let me know, having said that the service we get of our printers is excellent .

It is a thankless task writing and editing the programme but a rewarding one when you see people buying half a dozen at a time come match day to send down south. In St Andrews our demographic is quite old and the website viewing figures are higher away from local users so the programme is the only way some of our supporters find out whats going on but then some of them still dont buy it.

We are currently selling out 70 for league games and have had to reprint for Saturdays Cup tie so I must be doing something right.

Well done to all those programme writers out there, whatever format your publication takes.

[number4]

Keep up the good work Ryan and to all the guys doing program's ,always good to play a team that produces a program for a read before the game as I always keep them for the future.wished we still did them

[RobRoyGuy]

TFW do you ever buy from D and D programmes , now they are what you call extortionate !


Hmm maybe I should delete that since they sponsor one of the cups !

[Mussy Don]

Compared to some programmes I've seen (including some league teams) the Mussy programme is very good. As for the price, every football club at every level increases their prices when a bigger than usual crowd is expected.

[buffter]

Have to admire the guys who spend their own time and effort on their respective teams programmes . I dont know what some people want ( pictures of page 3 models probably ) I personally am glad to hand over my pound or whatever as its for the clubs benefit be honest it dosnae break the bank does it . You folks in the East are tighter than a dead heat !

[Nero E. Oro]

buffter, on 24 January 2012 - 18:27, said:

Have to admire the guys who spend their own time and effort on their respective teams programmes . I dont know what some people want ( pictures of page 3 models probably ) I personally am glad to hand over my pound or whatever as its for the clubs benefit be honest it dosnae break the bank does it . You folks in the East are tighter than a dead heat !

Yup, agreed.

Unless it's a blatant rip off filled with nothing but adverts then I'll let most clubs off a few shortcomings....but even at that, how "ripped off" do you really feel when the thing generally only costs a quid!

[taurus]

Nero E. Oro, on 24 January 2012 - 18:32, said:

Yup, agreed.

Unless it's a blatant rip off filled with nothing but adverts then I'll let most clubs off a few shortcomings....but even at that, how "ripped off" do you really feel when the thing generally only costs a quid!

Got to admit I never buy a program home or away but now I see whats involved I'm gonna start .

Any body saves them PM me your adress and I'll post them free of charge on the Monday.

This post has been edited by taurus: 24 January 2012 - 19:21

[Hillonearth]

I'll always buy a programme if available, as a souvenir of the game if nothing else. Even a team producing an 8-12 page badly photocopied job is better than turning up at a ground you've never been to before and finding all they're selling are tickets for a half-time raffle - hardly going to keep them! Ultimately though, the programme should be a revenue stream for the club. There's no point in a team at our level having a special occasion prog professionally printed and losing money on each copy they sell, and as such £1.50 for a 28 page full colour effort is more than reasonable. Fair enough, it's only £2.50-3.00 for an SPL programme, but most of those are filled with enticements to pump yet more cash into the club or photos to keep the kids happy. They can afford to price it at that level partly because they use it as advertising for themselves, and partly due to economies of scale - cheaper per unit to get 5,000 progs printed than it is say 200-odd.

[whitburn exile]

Keep up th good work I always used to buy a fe programmes at every game and wished our club did them so I could get them sent down. If anyone has any Whitburn programmes from past few seasons or this season pleas pm me as would like to get my hands on them

[peasy23]

I'm the first to admit that ours isn't the fanciest, but I think that it includes the most important things like both squads, league tables, fixtures and a bit on the opposition. We don't have a raffle on matchday, but the programme doubles up as that with the lucky number on the front with a tenner for the winner.

[RobRoyGuy]

Yours may not be fanciest but the content is excellent which is most important thing peasy23

[tinto]

A few thoughts on the subject !.
The family business I own have sponsored the Benburb programmes for a number of years.
First hand experience tells me that the effort put into producing a programme is enormous. I try and buy a batch of Scottish Junior programmes every year from SNLR and there are many good publications from the clubs. Last season I thought the Cumnock programme was excellent.
At the Bens the fellow contributers give some excellent stuff and recently the much respected 'Groundtastic' magazine rated our programme as 'excellent' which was nice for one of the less fashionable clubs.
We raised our charge this season from £1.00 to £1.20 due to increased printing costs. We had held them at £1.00 since January 2005.
However our sponsorship of the programmes will definately be reviewed during the summer. The reason is postponements; we have had five so far and that equates to a lot of money; especially during a recession. It is soul destroying having to throw them away after spending hours producing them.
I thought the Musselburgh programme chap's post was good. £1.50 is not an unreasonable amount for a programme.

Tinto

[HTG]

We only tend to do programmes for bigger games (so none this season!) and when we do, they are full colour, glossy and professionally printed. On the basis that they take time to prepare, cost at least £1 to print and are not there as a handout but to give supporters something to read and make a small profit I am quite happy to see them on sale at £1.50 or £2 a throw. £1.50 for a decent programme is neither here nor there when you're playing a team in the junior cup.

[roseyposey]

With the club having been against programmes for many years I have produced 5 or 6 for Linlithgow in the last couple of seasons
for bigger cup games. Taking the decision that if I was going to do it then I would do it as best as possible so they were
created and then printed professionaly at a local printer on proper glossy paper.
they have all been 20 pages programmes and i can tell you now these cost £1.40 each to get printed
as they were only for the odd BIG game any adverts were for companies that were already major club sponsors and brought in no income
so with that they were priced at £2 each
The only way to reduced the printing cost would be to have them go to a proper press instead of digital printing and finding a printer who
would print 150/200 copies on a press is very difficult, had we gone down that route the price per programme was about £1.70 ?!!?

The one for our tie against Talbot last year seemed to sell well
i am wondering what TFW thought of it seeing as it was £2. ??
the price was in no way due to who we were playing as the Clydebank one was also 20 pages and £2

Anyone having a go at there own club for charging £1.50 for anything over 10/12 pages needs to have a look at themselves
even photocopied efforts go through some amount of toner/ink ??

I dont think the programme at Linlithgow will ever be a regular thing despite the positive feedback I got for them.
which is a pity as the potential to build on them and make some extra funds still exists

This post has been edited by roseyposey: 24 January 2012 - 20:23

[The Old Northerner]

The model I use at Haddington is to have a single cover professionally done which will be used throughout the season (overprinted or labelled for each game) and the guts are home printed/copied. Adverts on the cover pay for the professional costs and all other incidentals. When someone hands over £1 all of it is going to the club. Downside is my home printer going spanner means no programme. Content is variable as well but the basics are always there

This post has been edited by The Old Northerner: 24 January 2012 - 20:45

[Jez]

We produce a 24 programme which is a colour cover, but black & white inside. It's printed on glossy paper.

We have a deal with a printing company that they only charge us half of what we get printed.

Ours costs £1. If we get 50 printed it only costs us £25, so we make money on the programmes.

Its not a lot but its something. We used to struggle to sell 20 in the old format, but now are selling 50 and could sell more.

For those using printing their own, shop around because we are saving a packet now compared to printing ourselves.

This post has been edited by Jez: 24 January 2012 - 21:07